To have expected ds and his mate to have got at least 5 mins on the football pitch

[tevion]

My ds and his mate joined a team about a month ago they have gone along to all the training sessions and to every match on a sunday morning.
Today it was a cup match and ds and his mate were left stadning the whole of the match and didn.t get a single opportunity to play.
They were the only two that didn,t.
I have appreciated all along that they may be weaning them in gradually but it was explained at the start that each and very child would at least get 5mins on the pitch.
I asked the coach today if there was a reason for them not playing today and he shook his head and said he needed his strongest players on today and if I don,t like it and he then shook his hands.
I said I thought they would have got 5 mins at least to which he said I can,t please veryone but he still wants them to come next week.
I am quite disappointed in the team now so aibu or is this how it works.

[sincitylover]

This seems to happen alot doesn't it?

The ego of the coach seems to get in the way and they think they are running a premier league club.

I think this also contravenes the FAs guidance for boys of this age.

Ive nothing against it getting more competitve when it gets to my older son's age - he's 14.

But for younger kids it sucks!!

The other thing was with ds2 was the the manager wouldn't face up to telling him initially they let it drag on until I pushed for an answer.

[23balloons]

Removed ds2 from little league recently due to unfair treatment & made an official complaint against the manager favouring certain players (including his son). At the end of the day it was supposed to be fair & non-competetive but it wasn't and I wasn't prepared to stand by & see ds humiliated & unhappy and do nothing about it.

[coolascucumber]

This happened with my son's rugby team (tag rugby. The team played alot of fixtures, probably more than they trained so the only way to progress was to get in the games. Several weeks in a row we travelled to matches in the freezing cold and stood on the touchline and he didn't get a sniff of a game. It was demoralizing for him. Well after a few weeks when the coach phoned to see if he could play I asked if he would be getting on the pitch. Probably not, the coach said, it was an important game and he would only be playing the best players. So I blew my top. I told the coach clearly that while I appreciated the time and effort he put into the team I thought it was horrendous that he could treat children like that. It was a team for 7 year olds!! I told him if the only thing that mattered was winning then he must have a seriously sad life. This was my third child going through the club and he was the only coach that played his team like that.

[sincitylover]

same thing happened to both my sons and it put them off.

my younger son was signed up for a team last season and it seemed inclusive and he got a fairly good crack of the whip.

Then there was a falling out amongst the top management and a new team was formed. They did trials and ds2 wasn't signed up. I was livid on his behalf and told the managers so.

when I eventually told ds2 he shrugged and said he wasn't bothered but who knows!

They are now both doing cricket which seems to suit them better but I would have liked them to carry on with football.

But it was not to be largely because of attitudes outlined earlier. DS2 is just 9 btw

[deepheat]

Just wanted to stress that if anyone is at a club where there are a few parents feeling like this, don't necessarily be put off by the idea of starting your own club.

With a few adults on board then it isn't as difficult as it sounds. Pre-requisites are:

a) Someone who knows enough about football to coach it.
b) A secretary (who doesn't have to have a clue about football but would benefit from some administrational skill and being able to use Excel).
c) A group of parents who are committed enough to give a small portion of time on a fairly regular basis (a rotation of 'responsible adults' at a training session etc)

A bit of capital helps, but the FA, local authorities, social clubs, community groups etc will often be happy to help out in the form of grants. You could also look for a local mens team that has a good structure and ask if they'd be interested in having a youth team (could be a ready supply of coaches!).

Safeguarding training and a CRB is necessary for every adult who will be involved at the club in a formal capacity, but these are easily arranged (and pretty cheap) either through a local authority or your local FA. There is a a lot of hoo-ha in the press about every parent needing to be CRB checked to give lifts etc. This doesn't need to be true, as long as the lifts aren't arranged formally through the club.

Start advertising one year before your first season. Notify the league you would want to join about your intentions (don't worry about results - bear in mind that you'll be joining the bottom division of the league and also that results aren't that important as long as the kids are enjoying themselves).

Pitches are easier to come by than you would think. Winter training can be on astro or indoors.

Finally, bear in mind that a well run club can be a socially great for parents and kids. Parents get time with that nice balance between being with your kid but not having to be too hands on, while having other adults to hang out with. Planning meetings can happen at the pub! For the kids, a well run team keeps them active, helps make friends, gives them confidence. It is also a great opportunity to encourage them and build them up.

My ground rules before every training session were always: no bad language, say nothing to each other unless it is either encouraging or instructive and no pretneding to be injured. Any kid breaking these rules had to take a ten-minute time out. I also insisted that kids couldn't play unless they'd cleaned their boots before training (I took a bucket of water and a brush along for the kids that hadn't - parents were grateful as the boots lasted much longer and the kids took a bit of pride in their appearance and ended up competing to see who had the cleanest boots).

End of season awards can be great fun and really inclusive as well.

Anyway, I now play in a mens side on a Saturday and we have two playedrs in the team that I coached as kids. Both remind me of how bloody old I am, but it is also a really satisfying feeling to see them still enjoying their football.

[IloveJudgeJudy]

I can see both sides. I have two DSs. One is very sporty and competitive and has always been in competitive football teams and kind of begrudgingly accepted that that is the way it is. The other tried to join an U8 football team, not being very sporty and just for fun but left after a few weeks after the other boys were so horrible to him and made fun of him even though he had told the coach before he joined that he was new to this.

I think the thing to do is to find a team (like my DN's) where they don't sign up so many boys per year so that every boy gets quite a lot of play on the pitch. Isn't it roll on/roll off subs at that age and 20 mins per half, two games per Sunday morning? The ones that I've seen the subs were coming and going all the time, unless it was a team that signed the max they were allowed (25?) and only played the ones that had done well at training that week.

You really have to decide what kind of team you want your DS to join. As another poster said above, cup games are very competitive, even at that age and it gets ultra-competitive at U11 when it's 11-a-side.

I do hope you manage to find a team that suits your DS and his friend. I know at first hand how soul-destroying young football can be and that so many children are put off by sport by this ultra-competitive attitude. Also, the coach may not even be a trained one if the club is not FA-affiliated.

[mangoandlime]

Sorry, I meant he has only been there a month!

Yes, to reply to another post - it's competitive from under 9. The earlier leagues are friendly. Under 11 is when they play 11-a-side. Some pitches are outrageously large! I agree with another post. (on iPhone so can't scroll up)

[mangoandlime]

I do feel for you. I've seen it happen before in other teams. It's the perennial problem. When your ds was signed to the team it sounds like you were told your ds would play for at least five mins each game, and, apart from the cup match, he has been. It has only been there a month, give it time, it may come good. I think it sounds like your coach has been pretty upfront with you, so far. He'll soon get the measure of your ds from training.

[niftyfifty]

As LadyBiscuit said, it's a pity more coaches don't have the same attitude as deepheat. You're all paying the same in subs and if they're turning up for training every week they should be getting a fair crack of the whip. It's not all about winning at all costs - I think at that age it's not even supposed to be competitive! Keep an eye on it like you say and good luck

[tevion]

He has played 3 other matches and dh has usally taken them because I have been working but dh has usually come home grumbling that we shouldn,t be paying subs for him to get on the pitch for just 5 mins.
I am going to be keeping an eye on this now.

[niftyfifty]

The situation got so bad in our team that some of the parents broke away to form a 'B' team because they were so disgusted with the attitude of the coach. This included the parent of the boy who was, undoubtedly, the best player. The original coach would keep his own son on for the whole of each and every match even if they were totally thrashing the other side. It wasn't good enough for him for the children to enjoy the game and have fun, he wanted to win at all costs even if the other team were humiliated.

This brings back so many bad memories for me - I used to be livid on behalf of DS and the others in his situation. Think I'd better leave this thread and calm down ...

[LadyBiscuit]

Gosh deepheat what a dreadful shame that you don't coach youth sides any more :(

I hate the attitude towards children's sport you describe. It was hugely competitive at my school even during games lessons and totally turned me off sport until I was an adult.

I wish more coaches and sports teachers in general had your attitude.

OP - YANBU. This is exactly why I don't want my DS to join a team.

[niftyfifty]

Good post deepheat - I have had experience of this and my DS ended up giving up football for those exact reasons. It was the same clique of boys playing the whole match every week. DS and a couple of others, who turned out for all the training sessions and matches, always started on the side line as sub. I lost count of the number of Sunday mornings spent freezing on the side, with DS & the other subs asking when it would be their turn.

Of course some children are better than others, but how are they to improve when they spend the majority of the match on the side? Our coach also used the "I had to field my best side" argument - it's not Man United FFS!!

In the circumstances OP, as they've only been going for a month and it was a cup game - which is obviously more important that the usual Sunday match - I would keep an eye out and see what happens in future. If you find they are spending the majority of each match on the side, find another team before they lose heart and confidence.

[deepheat]

Sorry, but even with mid-week training I don't think that 5 minutes game time at the weekend is sufficient for a 9yo lad or girl. It would appear that the only lessons they are learning about being part of a team are the hard ones.

Look at it this way: Your lad is 9. Unless he is something really remarkable football-wise, his coach won't have much of an idea about how good he will be in 4 years time by keeping him on a bench. If this treatment continues, is it going to encourage his participation in team sports or turn him off? Is it going to build his confidence for when he does get a chance to make the starting XI or will he feel too much pressure to play to his full potential? Is it going to encourage him to feel part of the team or will he feel excluded? The way he's treated by a coach now will have an impact on his football - and possibly all sport - in the future.

You are right in thinking that a kids team shouldn't be taken that seriously. At least, not by the adults. Kids will always take something like this seriously - understandably so. The coach should have a little more perspective.

[tevion]

The boys are both 9.
At the beginning it was explained that they don,t have to be brilliant players they were just expected to listen and be willing and that there is no preferential treatment and that everyone gets at least 5 mins to play nobody is left out.
I do appreciate to a certian extent that the coach needs to make some decisions.
Maybe I have got the wrong idea of all this I thought a kids team wouldn,t be taken so seriously.

[byrel]

The failure of our national team is down to the poor level of coaching that many of children get. We also stick them on full size pitches with full size balls from far too earlier an age and so most players are technically deficient.

[mangoandlime]

In our house we certainly didn't blame our national team. We are very much a 'Some you win, some you lose' family. As DH says; it wasn't our tournament.

[mangoandlime]

A well run team, with a coach who's a good communicator, leader, motivator and who the boys look up to, is fantastic for young boys. That great coach will also know the ability of every player in his/her team. These boys will play together for years, from the age of six, they become very close to each other.

Competition is healthy, if handled correctly. There are loads of happy young boys playing football today. My son is certainly one if them

[deepheat]

Incidentally, for those people posting that the coach did the right thing, I hope you also were not the people complaining when England performed so dismally at the WC earlier this year. Yes, the two worlds are a long way apart, but they are most certainly connected. One look at the youth set ups of the two countries who competed in the final can tell you this much.

[deepheat]

Sorry, but I have to disagree with the two posters above - basically for the reasons outlined in my earlier posts.

The problem with football in this country is that at every level it has fostered a short-termist approach. Clubs at the top level will go into the red to chase success today without considering the consequences of their debt tomorrow. Kids teams at the bottom level will continue to operate in this way without realising that to keep a select few on the touchline week in week out could mean that they're missing out on a genuinely good player. If they are to reach their potential, most kids at a young age need confidence, they need to understand playing as a team, they need constant encouragement and they need to feel as though they belong. None of this is achieved by sitting on the touchline. It is a sure-fire way to turn kids off football and other sports, to damage their confidence and to create cliques in an age-group that doesn't need any further encouragement to do this anyway.

[mummylin2495]

If the score for the game was a really close one,i doubt very much that the team who were picked would be changed in the last few minutes,if on the other hand your ds,s team was way ahead by a few goals then it may of been possible to of allowed your ds and his friend on for the last few minutes.The coach is doing his job by having the best team available on the pitch,especially for an important game.

[mangoandlime]

Poisonous parents on the touchline need to to be spoken to, that isn't acceptable behaviour. We see it rarely really (in our league, at least) I think most decent people know how to behave. You do get the odd idiot though.

It still all boils down to communication. The 'A' league is competitive, but we have good competition. There are other leagues to play in to suit your child's level, a move to a diferent league could mean loads more football for them. I've known plenty of parents who will not move their boys because the kudos of playing in the 'A' league is too much to lose. They seriously need to get over it and start thinking of their child. The coach is damned if they do, and damned if they don't, at times.

We still don't know the age of the children in question here.

[deepheat]

Should also add that in the countries that traditionally provide a disproportionate amount of professional players in Europe, kids rarely play competitive games before the age of 13 and are also do not have defined positions on the pitch until that time either. Its about understanding and enjoying the game until the hard (but fun) work starts.

[deepheat]

Going to have a little rant here - sorry.

YANBU! I'm qualified to coach youth sides and your coach's attitude sums up everything that is wrong with youth football in this country. Youth coaches seem to place a premium on winning above all else. This is fine when you get into the adult game or in matches for older teenagers (I'm assuming your DS is a bit younger?) but for younger kids it is an awful way to run a side.

When kids are older it is important that they learn about a team ethos, the need to accept that sometimes they won't take part because somebody is better than them or it may not be right for the team on that day. A difficult lesson, but one that has to be learnt for later life.

Younger kids need to ENJOY the game. Not stand around freezing their arses off on the touchline. So many potentially great players are lost to the game (and the game is lost to them) because they have not been given the opportunity to realise their potential. The most rapid phase of development football-wise for these lads will be any time between 13-16 years and they need to simply enjoy the game up to this point. That means playing. It also sends out the message to the team that winning is everything and this generally leads them to develop a massive fear of and shame about losing. This means they don't develop as footballers, trying new things etc.

Alot of this attitude also comes from the poisonous parents on the touchline - you know, the ones who are happy to abuse the refs in front of kids, to shout at kdis in the opposition etc. Sometimes the coach can be intimidated into decisions like this (I've seen it many times and the affected coach has always been very apologetic to parents and kids afterwards, unlike yours).

People's attitude to youth football in this country are totally screwed in the most part. Not proud of this, but afraid that is why I gave up with kids and went on to coach an adult team instead. Would rather have been able to make a difference, but it wasn't worth the grief.

Sorry. Rant over.

[badfairy]

I can see why you might be a bit upset for your DS and his mate but there is a big life lesson here unfortunately. Competition is all about winning and if you don't want to be part of that culture then don't play competitive sport. I have a DS1 that is extremely competitive and a nephew that couldn't give a toss ( DS1 goes to football club Nephew does trampolining) and both are happy.