Dismissed while waiting for matching panel

[jaquesjaques]

As above.
Obviously I now realise there's a gap in protection for potential adopters.
I'd like to take my employers to court to try and challenge the decision to make me redundant after I was linked (and told them of this) and before matching panel/matching certificate a couple of months later.
I have been with this employer more than ten years before anyone asks, as I know you don't have many employment rights before 2 years employment.

Many lawyers/ACAS etc don't seem to understand that adoption is different from pregnancy in terms of your employment rights as they assume they are the same. Sadly (and I know pregnant women get screw over too) I've experienced that I don't have any rights until approx 2 weeks before the child is placed with me, rather than the months and months protection than pregnant women are provided.

Does anyone know of any employment lawyers working in this field who might be able to assist me with this?

[Jellycatspyjamas]

What a nightmare, the law does need to bring legislation more into line with maternity law, particularly given you often need to let employers know fairly early on in the process because agencies want employer references. It makes it easy to get rid of someone if you think there’s an expensive and inconvenient adoption leave to pay for. I don’t know of any lawyers in this area but Adoption U.K. might be able to help, or even take up a campaign to protect adopter rights earlier in the process?

[Maggiejane12345]

I'm really sorry to hear this and hope that this hasnt affected the child being Placed with you.

As frustrating as it must be I really don't think this would be a fight that you would get anywhere with.

A woman is not entitled to maternity protection in the workplace when she is trying for a baby. She is a prospective mum. She's only an actual mum to be and entitled when there is an actual child I.e she is pregnant.

Turning to Adopters... before we are officially Matched by the ADM we are only prospective adopters. We are only actually parents to be when the ADM has ratified the Match.

As there is no law to challenge you would not win.

I know this is awful, but your best bet is to concentrate on your child. You will need all of your time and energy to do that.

I was made redundant years ago. The whole redundancy consultation and selection of redundancy candidates was a farce.

I had spent many months being incredibly stressed and then the actual redundancy process nearly broke me.

I had two choices. 1. To find a new job and mentally recover. Or 2. Do the above and take my employers to court. Option 2 would have finished me off.

It took me months before I started socialising at night again with my friends. I was in no position to do it.

During Assessment my SW was in awe at how I had been so resilient, picked my battles and my strategies of dealing with it all.

My horrendous experience ended up being a huge strength for the as a mummy. Knowing when to pick a battle or leave it. There have been countless battles... esp with school.

[Jellycatspyjamas]

Turning to Adopters... before we are officially Matched by the ADM we are only prospective adopters. We are only actually parents to be when the ADM has ratified the Match.

You're legally only parents once the adoption order is granted at court, until then you’re carers, not parents. By your comparison once someone is approved for adoption they’re effectively a “parent to be”. I do think the law as it stands should more closely match maternity law, even having protection once linking begins would be better.

@jaquesjaques I agree you may want to consider how much time and energy you want to give it, I also agree it’s unfair.

[jaquesjaques]

Thanks for your thoughts.
Unfortunately AdoptionUK weren't able to advise where to access legal advice.
I personally feel we shouldn't be in a race to the bottom.
Rosa Parks wasn't protected by law - but challenged it.
I do realise I must focus on my new adoptee, but I'm also passionate about other things too, I totally take your point, but I would struggle to let this go as I do believe discrimination is not a black and white lawful verses unlawful issue.
Law must be tested and challenged and must be adapted and hopefully progress.

[jaquesjaques]

*specialist advice I mean.
Although now I remember I did use a great barrister a few years ago & who turned out to be connected to a member of my family (completely different area of law) but maybe he will have some ideas about which firms would be good to approach.
The admin is a massive pain because I do hate admin, but once these things are handled to lawyers I don't find it too stressful, because as I said, I've already had the pain of being screwed over, so I've nothing to lose

[Ted27]

@jaquesjaques

whilst I really understand your desire to challenge this, I think you have to take into account the fact that whether or not its in the hands of solicitors, the last thing you need in the early days of placement is a court case, which to be honest you are unlikely to win.
What about financing it? What does ‘winning’ look like to you personally? Financial compensation, getting your job back? I’m not sure I’d want to return to this workplace.
Rosa Parks sparked a movement, which took many years to achieve anything, and those battles continue to this day.
My point being that the only way really to effect a change in law, is via national level campaigns, not the actions of an individual.
Many years ago I was responsible for a national complaints service in the education sector. I spent a lot of time talking to people about what it was they actually wanted to achieve - because making a complaint rarely achieves what you want.
So I would think long and hard about what you actually want from this and whether or not its worth it in the long run

[jaquesjaques]

Hi @Ted27 thank you for your points, which I don't disagree with, but equally weren't what my original post was about.
No I do not want my job back, the workplace was toxic, bullying and not-family friendly I knew adoption would be frowned upon as that is the culture there that any pregnancy is also not supported and women do not return there after maternity leave.
I understand how law is made, I studied law at one point (very dull and not remotely fitting my skill set, but I learnt quite a bit) however legislators do respond to movements and challenges to any current legislation (no guarantee it will be in my lifetime even!) so I am thinking about the tiny/minute ripples of any action I take regardless if I 'win' or 'lose', because the cost of legal representation is financially free to me. Court will likely take over 12 months at least and I can pull the plug at any time. I am not remotely reckless.
I happy to hear from anyone who know lawyers/campaign groups working in this field - specifically adoption rather than maternity as we know there is a difference in how the law/legislation operates.

[Jigglypufff]

Could you try arguing sex discrimination if you are going to be the primary care giver?

A hypothetical comparator would be a man who was planning on adopting?

If there is a culture of women being forced out treated badly when they have caring responsibilities you could cite that as back ground.

Discrimination cases are a battle of evidence so make sure you have as much physical evidence as possible, grievances, meeting notes etc.

it might be worth looking into that line of argument. You have three months less one day from the dismissal and the timelines are very strict.

The employment tribunal if you are a litigant in person is free unless you get a costs order.

I could not have gone through the employment tribunal in the first year of adoption. That was stressful enough for me!

[Maggiejane12345]

What I want to just say is everything now has to be about the child and their best interests. And meeting all their needs.. not yours. I don;t mean to sound unkind but this is the reality.

There are Adopters who have started various campaigns/making waves at pre A0. They have been categorically told that they need to Cease or their Placement is in extreme jeopardy. Spending time on SM, doing petitions, court cases etc meant that they weren't fully focussed on the child... a long way from it They have Ceased and been left with having to justify every little thing with the SW's.

Until the AO goes through we are only Carers.. we have no legal rights for the child.

[Cranberriesandtea]

Try Reddit, they have a subreddit for r/legaladviceuk and the advice there is good. You are 100% right adoption is not protected and we need to do way more than pregnant women before our "due date".

I wish I was more law savvy to help more but there are people on Reddit who are very good at telling you if you have a case or not