Are LAs legally bound to disclose information around birth family, e.g. Deaths/marriages/births of siblings?

[user0000000001]

As above really...

[flapjackfairy]

That is interesting lazy.
Good to hear the perspectve of an adult adoptee x

[lazycrazyhazy]

As an adult adoptee of a previous generation I don't agree that it's better to know (e.g. If BM had died) in childhood. I think you're much better equipped to deal with things as an adult. I know this is going against the trend for open adoptions (sounds like you don't have that OP) but I honestly think children are happier in one solid environment without the confusion of having to process information about someone who is a stranger to them at this stage. Just my opinion but I've often thought I wouldn't have been able to cope with all the knowledge as a child.

[Kr1stina]

An adoptee has the right to search for their birth family at any age. They have a right to access their court records as a adult - this varies according to the law of the country concerned, from age 16.

And the birth family also have the right to request contact through an intermediary at any age.

And they can place details on adoption contact registers.

No one is saying there are no links. No one is saying that no one has no rights over anything. Posters were addressing the specific point raised in the OP, which was about the rights of adopters to know information about the birth family.

They were not discussing all aspects of rights of adoptees andburth family members.

And it's nothing to do with " legally types " ( whateber that is) . The OP asked about legal rights .


And your statememt about " criminal negligence is interesting. Is this based on case law or on statute in the country in which you adopted ? Could you post a link please as I'd like to read it.

However I believe the OP adopted in England so I'm not aware of any legal precedents about what constitutes Criminal negligence here on adoption here. If I'm wrong, perhaps you could provide links. I'm sure that would help the OP.

[drspouse]

Legally an adopted child is now the child of their adoptive parents and is no longer legally the child of their birth parents.

However for all you legally types there are still remaining rights surrounding an adopted individual and their birth family:
They have the right to search for their birth parents when they are 18.
They have the right to get a copy of their original birth certificate ditto.
And the birth family also have a right to request contact when the child is 18.

Not such a clean separation as you are saying, is it? Yes there are still links.

So OK, let's return to the best interests of the child.

In the country where my DC were born they can request their original birth certificates when they are 18 if they know the names of their birth parents as written on the birth certs. I have made certain we know those for their benefit.

When a child is placed then it would be criminally negligent of the SWs not to disclose all they knew about the existence and relevant lifestyle features of the birth parents and siblings (anyone deceased, were children removed, who do they live with roughly speaking, roughly what in BPs lifestyle led children to be removed). Adopted children will have this information as part of their life story when younger and will have full information before they are 18.

The welfare of the child (as a child - before 18) is also best served by knowing about similar major family changes (including e.g. death of a grandparent that they had known well) and the SWs again would be negligent to the child for whose welfare they are responsible if they did not disclose information of this nature. As the OP has said, it will mean the difference between "your birth parents could not look after babies" and "your birth parents were too young/were too sick/thought they could make things better by taking drugs when you were a baby, but your baby sister is being properly looked after by them according to the SWs" (also important for children to know their siblings are well looked after).

If the SWs have said they would tell you and have not, then the point to make is the welfare of your children, for whom they still have some responsibility.

[Italiangreyhound]

user0000000001 I can understand your wanting to know about birth family. I think if you have letter box in place, I hope it will provide you with some answers you need.

If you do not have letter box in place, is this something you could request?

I do think it is possible to build a strong identity for your little one as part of your family, and for themselves without too much reference to birth family. Of course whatever things you may know can be useful, and can be incorporated, but what you do not know, well, that has to be left to one side.

My little boy's birth mum did not have any children before him and as far as we are aware none since. I hope to still be able to reassure him that his removal from the family home was in no way his fault, and that his birth parents had limited choices due to their own poor/abusive/ difficult upbringings. That they loved him, were sorry to lose him, and that we were delighted to parent him into the boy/man he is and will become.

I am fearful at least one birth parent will die before he gets to look for them, if he chooses to. I've heard boys take longer to look for birth parents (no idea if this is the case) and that some look when they become parents. If this is the case DS may not look for 20 or even 30 years. So I think if he does decide to look he/we must face the possibility of one or both not being around if he/we have no evidence to the contrary.

Luckily, we have letter box and this can help, I think, but even so we do not know if we will get the whole story or the full story or even the story.

Good luck.

[user0000000001]

All that stuff about " it's in the child's best interest " only works when it's them saying it to you. It doesn't apply the other way around and they know it.

They should add that to the prep course... truest piece of advice I think I've received!!

Thanks, all.

[Kr1stina]

I'm sorry, but you need to add this to the pile of shit that SS has told people over the years. Not just adopters, but adoptees, birth families and the courts.

Generally you need to assume that they will say whatever makes their lives easier at that point in time. And unless it's in a legal contract or madated by the courts, it didn't happen.

Hopefully it gives you a tiny bit of sympathy for other people who have been treated like a mushroom during the process .

You want information. They have it and won't give to you. Your only option is to act like Uriah Heep and tell them how wonderful they are and how grateful you are. You will get nowhere banging on about your child's identity and their fictional legal obligations. All that stuff about " it's in the child's best interest " only works when it's them saying it to you. It doesn't apply the other way around and they know it.

[dimples76]

I don't think there is a right to know but if SS knows about something major such as BPs death then I think they ought to share it. As you say it would be better to grow up with that knowledge than discovering the death later in life.

When it comes to other things like the birth of siblings I think unless they are in LTFC or going to be adopted then the BF should be entitled to privacy.

[user0000000001]

Or social services unless you're accessing post adoption support.

Ha! Because they've been so flipping effective in this area, too!

[user0000000001]

Yeah, I hear you smythe

Nothing that hasn't happened before, or won't happen again.

And I won't go in all guns blazing. I just like to know where I stand.

And now I do.

Thanks

[smythe55]

Ah, SS told me loads of shit. Get used to it.

This is not something you can go in all guns blazing without making it sound like you didn't understand what adoption meant.

Your child legally is your child. Nothing legally to do with birth family. Or social services unless you're accessing post adoption support.

[user0000000001]

But the birth family's confidentiality is nothing to do with what you would or wouldn't have a problem with. Their confidentiality trumps 'the best interests of the child' post adoption, because legally, it's not their child.

And I wouldn't have a problem with this, much had I not predicted this exact situation and asked about it to be told, unequivocally, that SS would inform us!

[smythe55]

But the birth family's confidentiality is nothing to do with what you would or wouldn't have a problem with. Their confidentiality trumps 'the best interests of the child' post adoption, because legally, it's not their child.

[user0000000001]

How would you know about future or even past siblings on dad's side ?

So, as I think I've mentioned, I'm only talking about events that are known to SS. I appreciate it's impossible if they aren't.

What if BM lost another two children ( so it wasn't your child's fault ) but then kept another ( so it was their fault) ? That's crazy.

To be fair, I think that's a bit disingenuous. If BM had a child and kept it, the conversation would be framed differently.

Much better to tell your kids the truth ( as much as you know ) about why their birth family didn't keep them . And explain that people's lives change and that 10years on the birth family circumstances may be very different

Yes, I agree with this and will bear it in mind.

Your question about about being " legally bound " and" rights" is very heavy handed . It's a long way from " id like to know if birth mum has died so I can explain to my kids "

Completely understand where you're coming from on this... I guess it stems from the 'I'd like to.....' approach achieving the square root of fuck all over the years . But I take on board what you're saying.

And you've really not addressed the issues of privacy and reciprocal rights in any way.

Ok, so reciprocal rights.... if someone can help me understand why it's in my child's best interest for their BM to know me and DH have divorced (as per your example below), I'll write and tell her myself! And after all, throughout this process we are told time and again it's all about what's in the best interest of the child.

Privacy... yes, I accept this is an issue. Hence my OP. I guess I, trying to understand where the line is between the two extremes (DC knowing everything and knowing nothing)

What if BM was told that her child was placed with a married couple and then you divorce ? Does she have a right to know as it affects her identity?

See above

Or she asks for a child to be placed with a family who practice X religion but in fact they do not practice so do not bring up the child in that faith. For many people it's a huge part of their identity. She she have a right to be told?

Personally, I wouldn't have an issue with her being told this.

[Kr1stina]

How would you know about future or even past siblings on dad's side ?

What if BM lost another two children ( so it wasn't your child's fault ) but then kept another ( so it was their fault) ? That's crazy.

Much better to tell your kids the truth ( as much as you know ) about why their birth family didn't keep them . And explain that people's lives change and that 10years on the birth family circumstances may be very different .

Your question about about being " legally bound " and" rights" is very heavy handed . It's a long way from " id like to know if birth mum has died so I can explain to my kids " .

And you've really not addressed the issues of privacy and reciprocal rights in any way.

What if BM was told that her child was placed with a married couple and then you divorce ? Does she have a right to know as it affects her identity ?

Or she asks for a child to be placed with a family who practice X religion but in fact they do not practice so do not bring up the child in that faith. For many people it's a huge part of their identity. She she have a right to be told?

[user0000000001]

What has prompted this concern? Do you know someone in the birth family is ill?

An event has occurred within the birth family that has potential ramifications for DC

We won't find out via letterbox

We were told specifically that events of this nature would be communicated to us

They haven't been. We have found out via other means. We are now trying to get (very, very basic) information from SS.

I am anticipating yet another fucking battle.

[smythe55]

There, not their. Argh.

[smythe55]

The reason SS are willing to tell you about future siblings is because they have to each time say why they can't be placed with you, in their reports. So it is nothing to do with keeping you informed, and to do with paperwork for the sibling.

If their was no thought of removing the sibling, I bet you'd hear nothing. Quite rightly.

Facebook stalking could satisfy your nosiness? But I think that way madness lies.

[user0000000001]

We have also been very clear that we would want to know about future siblings.

So, my question isn't that unreasonable then (or one example contained within?)

[user0000000001]

Pressed send too soon

I know identity is complex. I know we don't get all the information (God knows, I know). Even more important then that information that does help fill in those gaps is passed on, surely?

[user0000000001]

I think you need to be more realistic about the uncertainty and lack of information that comes with adoption. I also think thay identity is more complex than you suggest and it's not helpful for you and your children to feel this is predicated upon you being given all the information about your children's birth families - past, present and future

[user0000000001]

What about birth mum- many women who lose babies to the system eventually sort their lives out and make a fresh start. They are able to parent another child and have no contact with SS. Why do you think you have a right to know that?

I'm talking about events that would be known to SS, obviously.

[user0000000001]

Gosh, lots of food for thought. I will try to reply...

And even if you did know, how would it help your child to know that they have, for example , 4 half siblings scattered across the country aged approximately 4-12 years but no one knows their names or anything about them ? Because he met one of them once and paid some money for another for about a year . How exactly will that help your child's identity?

I can't speak for your DC, but if, for example, my DCs birth mother gave birth to more children who were then removed, it would help my DC realise that it wasn't their fault that they couldn't stay with her

Or, if their BM died, it would help to hear that message from me and DH now rather than waiting until they were old enough to go looking for her and finding out she'd died 10 years before.

[smythe55]

What has prompted this concern? Do you know someone in the birth family is ill?

[smythe55]

The definition of adoption is that the child legally leaves one family, and joins another. Legally, your child is nothing to do with them any more.

This is one of the downsides to adoption, and why it is done with such a heavy heart.

If both sides can keep contact, such information can be shared. But there is no legal obligation on either side, unless something unusual was added to the adoption order.

Social services may well be unaware a birth parent dies, as they would not be creating more children! Plus SS appear to be hardly managing things that are their work, without expecting them to keep lifelong tabs on birth families.