Has anyone successfully thrown the adoption instruction booklette out of the window?

[Chicklette]

I don't often post on here but the forum has been a great source of information over the last few years. Sorry if the post gets a bit long but it's hard to articulate what I mean.

My partner and I adopted 3 years ago. Our kids were very young approx 6 months and 18 months. We did a lot of reading on attachment etc and prepared out family pretty well. We funnelled fairly consistently and beat ourselves up when our boundaries slipped and granny's or granddad got too cuddly or random strangers were too engaging. Life was pretty mundane and low key for ages. We carried them a lot, lept into rescue mode when either of them had a tumble and tried to follow what we had learned at prep group etc.

I'm in no way saying we were perfect, I'm too shouty 😳 and there were loads of things that I feel we could have done better.

We parent in a much more natural and relaxed way now as I'm pretty confident on their attachment but we still do basic stuff- respond to needs, bang on about adoption to Nursary etc and parent them based on the fact that they were adopted IYKWIM.

The reason for my post is that I sometimes encounter adopters who don't do this. Like recently someone, not a friend- just the friend of an aquaintence- said they used controlled crying and I've met others over the years that have, for example, gone to weddings in the early weeks, been on holiday, not funneled, used babysitters, left kids at holiday clubs early on etc.

When I hear this part of me worries about their kids but another part starts to doubt if all the effort was worth it and worse, I start to doubt that any of it was the right thing to do and worry that I've done it all wrong - a common theme as I'm sure you can appreciate!

I suppose it also taps into the fact that when you adopt you never know how your kids would have turned out if they could have stayed with birth family and you don't know how you would have parented a birth child if you hadn't spent years reading about attachment!!

Also I guess it is in relation to the fact that I hear the phrase "but they were sooo young, surely they won't remember anything" etc etc about 10x a day!

Oh, and a very close relative was adopted in the 50's and they often comment that they have no idea how they turned out so well adjusted without all this attachment parenting nonsense!

So I guess what I am interested to know is did anyone just parent in a less 'adoption focused' way and feel like their kids turned out well- whatever that means! I guess I mean happy, bonded, attached etc.

I'm in no way being judgey, I'm just interested to know as I suppose theories and experts information changes over time and it's good to hear real life experiences.

Thanks for listening

[corythatwas]

I think if you are a clued-up switched-on parent you will naturally adapt your parenting style to any individual child and their needs.

I had a biological dd with a physical disability and some MH issues: a lot of the parenting she has needed has felt pretty counter intuitive to me, but gradually I have learnt what she needs, and the fact that this is not how I was parented or how I would naturally parent is neither here nor there.

This does not seem terribly different from the way my DM adapted her parenting of my adoptive brother. And a lot of it sounds like the stuff you have been taught, about building up attachment etc. But no one taught her; she just gave a lot of attention to thinking about his needs.

[jellyfishschool]

But just to answer your question, OP, to throw my answer into the pot, I do think it is worrying if people are disregarding advice given about how to parent adoptive children, ie the examples you gave of other people you know.

In terms of how children will turn out as adults, I agree it will depend on many factors and being given a solid foundation of love and security for most of their developing years which is what you are trying to do can't be bad.

[Kewcumber]

There's been a lot of useful stuff said already and I'm not sure if what I can say about this adds much but just in case...!

I wasn't very focussed on "therapeutic" parenting initially, my agency never mentioned funnelling though in my case we funnelled of necessary as I was about 4,000 miles from home for the first 3 months of DS's adoption.

I was careful and concerned about attachment but that was about it.

My (therapeutic?) parenting developed as a result of DS's needs and have developed as a result of his continuing needs.

He had sleepovers at my mums but he really attached well to her in lieu of me having a partner, no babysitters, no "naughty step" no controlled crying, no dropping and running at parties just because he didn't cope well without me. He co-slept and still does to a degree for the longest time because he was so scared of sleeping on his own (or at least waking up on his own).

When he has swimming lessons, I got in the water and swam too (this was after about 18 months of taking him swimming every week without fail to cure him of his water phobia).

I volunteered to read at school because it helped him settle down better, I still turn up at school at the opening of an envelope because he is calmer with me around and it helps him.

I don't think any of these things are unusual if you have an anxious child. I don't think that my parenting is out of the ordinary, I like to think on my best day it's best practice parenting (we'll skate over what it's like on my worst day).

We have had some pretty rough phases - last term DS had to have a fairly major intervention at school and I agreed with the school that a particular solution might work. It was one that DS hated and his teacher thought he would be a school refuser.

Last week he said to me "I hated you when you made me do that, you know" and i said "Yes I'm sure you did but you did it anyway and I hugely admire you for that". In truth it was probably because he trusts me absolutely and knows I would put him first and never knowingly let him down and that groundwork that we have both put in over the years have carried us through a really difficult time for him.

That's what you need to consider. Who cares whether some of your family or friends think you are a bit hippy-ish in your ways?

I have no idea if how I parent will continue to work for us but I'll do my best and continue doing my best and metaphorically put two fingers up to anyone who questions it (they generally don;t as I can be a little, umm... blunt).

The joy of having your own children is you get to deal with them how you want to, other people are welcome to parent their child how they want to.

[jellyfishschool]

PS in relation to funnelling I assume it does depend a bit on the age and the behaviour of the child when adopted? A slightly older child showing inappropriate behaviour with strangers will be a different case from an older child with normal behaviour?

A great deal of love and comfort can come from a formal, no touching (other than peck on the cheek) type relationship, ie one involving say giving of books and cuddly toys and reading and talking and doing imaginary play?

[jellyfishschool]

Re Italian's response to "I won't send them to swimming lessons at the moment - (they are only 3 and 4) as I'd rather spend time in the pool with them interacting with me rather than a swimming teacher etc.. Lots of people reading this will now say ' gosh that's extreme' but I think that it's best for us." honestly, honestly, I do not have one single friend who has adoptive young children but we are ALL of this mind set. I remember bumping into a mother in a shop, when I had a nursery aged child with me but she didn't and her eyes brimmed up saying how much she hated that she had to leave hers in nursery while she went to work. Most people I know are very family orientated.

[Italiangreyhound]

Chicklette naval gazing is fine. I do it too!

And I worry I am not doing the best for my kids.

I shout too much!

But they say daddy is shouty, they don't notice me shouting too much.

I am not sure if this will make you feel any better but to a large degree I/we practiced a kind of funneling with birth dd when she was born.

We read it called 'attachment parenting', nothing to do with adoption.

Re "I won't send them to swimming lessons at the moment- (they are only 3 and 4) as I'd rather spend time in the pool with them interacting with me rather than a swimming teacher etc.. Lots of people reading this will now say ' gosh that's extreme' but I think that it's best for us."

My dd did not have swimming lessons away from me until she was of school age, I think. Prior to that we did baby swimming where you swim in the pool with baby.

I breast-fed, I co -slept, I did everything except baby-wearing as I had a back prone to back aches. I went to the restaurant and early meetings like an evening church meeting with dd asleep in a car seat!

We rarely had nights out at all in the early days. We were late to parenting, almost 40 and totally besotted with our child!

I think we can only follow the best advice and common sense that there is now. I would not worry too much about tinned tomatoes. But we know smoking causing cancer so I would avoid that. People in the 40s and so were told smoking was good for them (or so I believe) so yes I would be majorly pissed off if I had smoked and been told it was good for me!

[Chicklette]

Yes, you are right, loads of these things are not that extreme at all and I'm sure I would have been a similar birth parent (not that it's important, it's just a philosophical thought).

I live in a city and see lots of people parenting in quite different ways and their kids are here, there and everywhere with loads of different groups or carers or are at nursary full time. Most of my friends can't afford not to work or they choose to work full time for other reasons. I'm privileged to work very part time (our choice but based on the kids perceived needs). Me and my kids days are very slow paced in contrast to many friends. We mosey about the woods, go to the beach,go on low key adventures, play at the park most days or just hang out together and we don't leave them with others very often. I realise this is not extreme parenting, but we still stand out a bit. I'm happy to do it this way and I feel very lucky to be able to do this.


As I've said though, I'm in the main, happy with the way that I am parenting them. I don't really wish to do it too differently. I'm just interested in how others do it.

I am a big fan of funnelling and as awkward and stressed as it sometimes made me feel, I think it was very beneficial for us as a family. I always recommend it if I talk with potential adopters. And I too love feeling that bond grow and seeing the attachment and trust grow deeper every day.

[MypocketsarelikeNarnia]

I do think you're seeing some things which are pretty ordinary as being hugely extreme. My bc has never had a swimming lesson, sleepover, weekend with gps, or indeed a night without me or in her own bloody bed - she is 6. She started a gymnastics class with four of her good friends at 5 and I was very worried about her. No swimming lessons, just fun in the pool etc etc.

I like Kristina's way of looking at it - that I am imperfectly trying to restore a connection which my ac never had. A newborn is so very attached to you, so very dependent on that attachment. I can feel the bond growing (in an almost physical way) with my ac. But 18 months in, although I am very very much her mother, there is still a very long way to go.

I think this thread is actually making me want to funnel a bit more!

[Kr1stina]

I think it's completely normal to wish that things had been different . For us and for our kids. These losses are very real and often heartbreaking .

It's ok to be angry and sad . You have a right to grieve for what they and you have lost .

We can't fix their pasts . We can't even make everything all right for them now . We just do the best we can with the resources we have.

[Chicklette]

Ha ha, you are right Kr1stina and of course I don't need them to have the same experience.

I can't think of much worse than having clones of myself running around- My pair have much nicer personalities than me!

I really just started this thread following the conversation I had with someone about controlled crying and was intrigued by other adopters parenting styles.

However, people's interpretation of my thread has made me decide to do a bit of navel gazing and make sure that I don't have too many unresolved issues going on! I haven't had a lot of head space for introspection in the last 3 years. If I'm not picking toys of the floor or chasing kids, I tend to just reflect on my parenting skills or the dynamics between us all, rather than reflecting on my own individual feelings. Maybe it's time to regroup and spend a while looking a bit deeper.

I suppose I can't help wishing deep down that their lives were different and that they could have avoided such a huge disruption to their lives but as you say, I'm just trying to create an imperfect, loving, funny, kooky, secure wee place or base for us all to live in.

Thanks for helping me to reflect.

[Kr1stina]

i mean this kindly - but if you wanted your children to have exactly the same in utero , birth and early childhood experiences that you did , you should have given birth to them .

And made sure that you conceived children with your personality type as well .

You can't wipe out their past by wishing it was different . Ignoring their attachment need to fulfill your own wishes to recreate your own idyllic childhood would have been selfish and short sighted .

Yes of course, in an ideal world things would have been different in your children's early life . But in that ideal world , you wouldn't even have your children . They would have been born into families who could love and care for them . That's what every child deserves.

You have not deprived them . You have tried to recreate, in an imperfect way, something that they never had. Something irreplaceable that is more important than sleepovers at grandmas aged 2 . There's plenty time for that when they are older and more secure .

It's ok to feel angry or upset about what you and your children have missed out on. We all come to adoption from a place of loss. But we need to sort out what are our issues and deal with them ourselves , otherwise we will end up putting them onto our kids .

[Chicklette]

Hels20 it's a really good point that parents and kids have very different views on whether they were "well parented"!! My parents and me definitely differ on our views about their less than finest moments!

[Chicklette]

Your right, social isolation is not the word. It's too extreme. But my kids have not had the same amount of unlimited social integration that I had as a child though and they haven't had the same experience as my nieces and nephews have had in that they haven't had sleepovers, days away with Grandparents, cuddles from loads of folk.p, nursary from a young age. The reason for this is because I, as their parent, thinks this is the best way to raise them. They had Foster care and horrible hideous trauma so this is my way of doing the best I can.

I have however babysat, bottle fed, cuddled and cooed at all my friends and families infant babies. Holly van Gulden and loads of other theorists recommend never allowing anyone to hold your adopted baby, or bottle feed them or do any personal care for example for the whole of their infancy. I accept, believe and appreciate that this is great for attachment and I followed this with my baby (well almost, couldn't ban grandparents etc cuddling but limited it massively).

She also recommends revisiting funnelling as an ongoing thing particularly when the kids are going through different stuff throughout their lives.

I believe this was best for my baby but it differs massively from my childhood. I wasn't adopted so this is to be expected. I imagine that I am then happyish person I am today because I came from a big loving family full of cuddling relatives and Aunties etc that took me out and Grandparents who I had sleepovers with. So whilst I'm parenting in the way that I hope with benefit my two the most, there is a bit of me that wonders if they could have had a more mainstream few years and turned out the same.

[Kr1stina]

I don't think that playing in the pool with a three year old rather than sending them to swimming lessons is remotely extreme . Lots of perfectly ordinary parents might think that having fun in the pool is more important at three than gaining swimming badges .

I don't think Van Gulden promotes social isolation for adopted children . Funnelling is about newly adopted children having their care needs met by one or two people consistently . It's nothing to do with isolation .

It may well be that a primary carer who is used to working and socialising in a busy environment and has a high need for social interaction and approval may find it isolating to spend time at home caring for a child. But that's a completely different issue .

[Hels20]

Ps and your comment about your children being more cautious than others. In this day an age, I don't think it is a bad thing. My DS is much more cautious - possibly because of his background, possibly because of his personality. But I rather like it. He took 1.5 terms at school to make a friend. He played with others but hadn't singled out anyone in particular. Then he did. He chose a friend. It came out of the blue. Now they are thick as thieves.

[Hels20]

You raise very interesting points OP - but I don't think we will be able to answer. Firstly, a lot of us haven't got through the phase of adopting - successfully transitioning them to full adulthood. And so there might be issues lurking round the corner. Secondly, we can't parent in two different ways. We get one chance to parent a child - we can't revisit history. Thirdly - I think you need answers from both sides...I think my Mum thought/thinks she successfully parented - but do we as her children?

I was very focused on funnelling to start with - for a good six months and then gradually eased up. 2.5 years after adoption for unavoidable reasons my DH and me had to be away over night at the same time. This was the first time DS had been left without one of us in the house. We had someone stay over who he sees almost every day - but he had an appalling night's sleep. And woke up for good at 3am and somehow managed to get through the school day. It made me resolve to not go away (both of us together) for at least another year and put paid to a trip away in August for a night to celebrate our anniversary.

I have disregarded some of the advice - though can't immediately think what. Probably going back to work at almost a year in, part time. And then increasing it to full time (though working at least 1.5 days a week from home). In an ideal world (ie when we had no mortgage), I would have taken a long career break. I have no idea whether me returning to work has harmed him - I don't think so. But I may never know and I certainly won't know for a good few years.

So I have thrown out a couple of the rules - but not the funnelling. I do think I parent differently but I don't have a BC to compare. But I am not sure whether I will ever know whether disregarding a couple of the rules has harmed him or not - unless we end up in counselling together in 20 years time or so.

[Chicklette]

Thanks all for joining in BTW. Very interesting views and experiences and interpretations
from all

[Chicklette]

Yes, the "funnelling" that I am talking about is at its most intense at the beginning. As we adopted 2 at once I felt it was probably going to be a bit harder for them to attach and that was the most important thing for us so I guess we did it for a bit longer and a bit more intensely than some others. We did our training with LA in the UK and they were pretty big on funnelling. We had friends that adopted with an agency and they didn't mention it as much. Theorists like Holy van Goulden are big on it. I can't find anything official online at the mo but here is a bit I cut out of a newspaper article that sums it up-

funnelling is the technical term, and in practice it means we can't introduce any of our family or friends to our new children until they have had a chance to build an attachment with us, and only we can feed them, change them, bathe them, comfort them when they hurt or fulfil any of their myriad other needs

As you say Kr1stina it takes years to form attachment so to some degree we still limit interaction, limit caregivers, have limited the amount of time the kids spend away from us at playschools, sports classes etc. For example I won't send them to swimming lessons at the moment- (they are only 3 and 4) as I'd rather spend time in the pool with them interacting with me rather than a swimming teacher etc.. Lots of people reading this will now say ' gosh that's extreme' but I think that it's best for us.

As I've said, I'm happy with how it worked out for us all. I only have a tiny bit of doubt as theories might change over time and other parents do things differently. I only doubt it to the extent that I also worry/wonder about what I feed them, eg whether tinned tomatoes are good for them or if they cause cancer etc. In general I'm just doing the best I can, with the info that I have.

The main reason I posted is that I'm interested in knowing whether people have raised their kids and decided not to follow the same advice , or perhaps had different advice, or no advice and are happy with the way things worked out, or not.

Thanks

[Italiangreyhound]

Chicklette re "I suppose the ones that I debate (in my head mainly) are any of the ones that involve social isolation or encouraging other people to NOT respond to my kids needs. "

This is normally at the start of placement isn't it. my son has been here two years and others would fix him a drink etc but if he fell over and I was present I would expect to care for him, and I am pretty sure most 5 year olds would expect there mum at that moment. But if he was in the care of grandparents etc at that moment then they would respond and be in charge.

"it takes a village to raise a child", id a lovely saying, in practical terms it has little meaning these days. And for children whose needs have been very neglected by the people who should have raised them (birth parents) and where extended birth family and others (including social workers) may well have failed to intervene when they were in need, I think adopted children need to know there are one or two adults they can absolutely depend on rather than 100 who might be able to help if necessary.

It sounds like you are looking back and partly wanting to re-write the past despite the fact things have turned out well. It's fine to do that but it seems quite pointless. You've done a good job but there will be lots of things to come.

Teenage years can be tough and I hear they start around 11 these days! Perhaps then my kids will be especially receptive to their God parents and other adults (we purposely chose most God parents to be younger than us!). They will want to talk to someone who is not mum or dad. So there are a lot of adults our kids can talk to (birth dd 11 and adopted ds 5) when they need to. But establishing who exactly is mum and dad was essential in the early days.

Re "We also celebrate the days they moved in/ were adopted and chat openly about adoption, their history etc. Some people that I know who are adopted have said that they would not have liked to have been reminded that they were adopted regularly when they were kids" I really think this is personal to the child. My son is quite interested in how long he has lived here, 2 years, he say 5, and totally uninterested in his birth family. Because I want the door to always be open I talk privately with him every few months about his birth mum. Especially on mother's day or close to it. But if he doesn't want to talk about it, I don't push it. Whatever is right for him is right for us.

[Kr1stina]

I've never read anything that says children should be socially isolated - where did you do your training / get your booklet ?

I do understand that it can be" counter intuitive " , as some people want to to wipe out / ignore their child's past and pretend that the day they were placed was the day that they were conceived. But I think that's wrong and we need to acknowledge our children's past and respect that their needs might be different .

Some adopters are so keen to make the child " fit in " to their family and how they do things , they can get upset when the child won't conform to how they believe things should be .

Some adults find it too hard to believe that a child is traumatised and treat them accordingly . They find it easier to just pretend that nothing has happened . Because if they have to face the loss in the child's life, it will bring them face to face with their own losses, and that can be too hard .

[Chicklette]

I suppose the ones that I debate (in my head mainly) are any of the ones that involve social isolation or encouraging other people to NOT respond to my kids needs.

As a precursor, I should say that I think funnelling has worked well in my family. I remember the phrase "if your child looks like they feel safe with everyone, it means they are safe with no-one". My children needed to learn that their needs would be primarily met by me and they was all linked to them being safe and permanent Iykwim. They were part of a busy, sociable Fosterfamily.

However, it was counter intuitive to begin with and is very different to the way I was raised. I guess I feel a bit more "it takes a village to raise a child" so it had been hard for me to limit the amount of demonstrative love, affection and care that my kids receive from family. I find it draining and awkward. But most of all I worry that one day the theory will say "the majority of adopted kids thrive best when they are emersed into a loving, kind, open and affectionate extended family as soon as possible. This helps to counteract the feelings of otherness or not fitting in that so many adopted adults report." My kids could easily have had that and they have it now but, for example no one except me and partner ever popped food into their mouths or bottle fed them or changed nappies or picked them up when they fell over for at least the forst year or so. And to some degree We still limit care giving and interaction.

Again, I mainly think this has had a positive impact. The kids are great, sociable, happy etc but a little but wary of others at first ( just the sort of well attached behaviour that SW is looking for). Just a part of me worries that all the funnelling will make them less trusting of others in the long term.

We also celebrate the days they moved in/ were adopted and chat openly about adoption, their history etc. Some people that I know who are adopted have said that they would not have liked to have been reminded that they were adopted regularly when they were kids. They think that would have made them feel insecure or not fully part of their family. In the 60's parents were encouraged to stay quiet about it, now we are encouraged to be open so that has changed.

[MypocketsarelikeNarnia]

I'd be very interested to know what you think is 'debatable at best'?

[MypocketsarelikeNarnia]

Approaches may change over time but I don't think it's quite as subjective as you're implying. All the things adopters do as good practice are rooted in foregrounding, understanding and being responsive to your child's emotional state and needs. That not going to change.

[Chicklette]

Hi, thanks all for joining in or contributing. I'm sorry to hear your experience Kr1stina and your right, we will never really know. Without prying at all do you have any opinions of what the most important/ beneficial/helpful way to parent is??! I understand that this is a bit of a ridiculous question as there will be no right answer but I just wondered if there is one or two things that you think would have made a big difference?

I'm sorry to contribute to panickyness Tippy6312 but as you say, it really does depend on everyone's circumstances and it is not a set of rules, they are just ideas and theories which are debatable at best and I am sure the advice will change over time.

Thanks again

[Tippy6312]

Deli I could have written your post exactly. We also don't do those things (groups etc) and did holidays, weddings. For us it wasn't really the 'not wanting to (groups etc)' but it wasn't offered to us (as well as training courses) due to how we came to adopt our son.

I often feel quite panicky reading posts like this, as I get an overwhelming sense of my goodness you're doing it/did it all wrong. But like others have said it depends on a family and family circumstance. But I can put my hand on my heart and say if I hadn't interacted with my mum / close family at that time, I would have completely broken down, which in turn would have been a hell of a lot worse for DS. I was literally only just keeping afloat.

I suppose I can only hope that as we grow as a family that we are doing right by our son. Almost 3 years in and I'm thankful everyday for how far we've came.