Attachment issues - too soon to know?

[dibly]

Hello, our nearly 12m old LO has been with us for almost a month now, and is generally settling in really well but I'm noticing some attachment issues - namely the fixated staring/prolonged flirting with strangers, and avoiding eye contact and displays of some 'fake' emotions with me (but seems fine with dad).

Intros all went fine, but the problems started after the placement. Have already mentioned to SWs, who think attachment is good, but I'm really struggling.

Do you think this is too soon to ask for help and to keep working on building the bonds? Or would you try and get some help at this stage? Any advice very gratefully received, I think hubs thought I was losing it at first!

[KristinaM]

Don't ignore your feelings, they are a sign that yes, your baby does have problems with attachment . It's not about you being selfish or ungrateful for finally having a LO, it's a red flag .

Stop the soft play . 4 weeks into placement is way too soon, especially for a child with problems . A baby doesn't need play dates .

Don't apply for the AO now as you will get no help afterwards if you do. Tell SS it's not the right time , you need to ensure child's needs are met .

Do all the attachemt parenting stuff .

[Kewcumber]

DS was 11 months when I met him and we went through at least 5 weeks initially of him studiously avoiding making eye contact with me, waving and smiling at everyone else, reaching out for them. I did lots of attachment type games and even bribed the little bugger with biscuits dangled in front of my eyes to make him make eye contact where upon he could have the (baby) biscuit. Don't shout at me... it worked!

Somehow he knew I was different to everyone else - that I was serious, that I spent more time with him and he did seem to find making superficial attachment much less threatening than a deeper bond with me.

We did get there gradually over the first year (probably looking abck on it in the first 6 months but I can;t be totally sure).

I would caution you about one thing that no-one really prepared me for.. how it is to bond with a baby that appears to be prepared to attach to anyone apart from you! I found it really hard to bond with him even though he was a delightful child, he just didn't seem to want me.

So try to see any bonding exercises you do as for both of you - and I agree that I would knock soft play areas on the head for now. Still with parks with fewer people around, music classes and gym classes where they have to sit on your lap or you have to help them around.

Also agree with Kristina not to apply for AO until you are sure that you're getting the advice and/or help you need.

[Kewcumber]

I should add that in my experience even experienced social workers tend to be dismissive of attachment problems in younger children there seems to be a mantra or "Under two = no attachment problems"

DS (now 9) continues to have attachment issues I think, I think he suffers from an insecure attachment and it is reflected in his poor self esteem and difficulty managing friendships sometimes but it is manageable and certainly doesn't affect our (mutual) bond.

[Upsydaisymustdie]

Definitely agree with delaying the AO! I have been waiting and waiting and waiting for a particular promised type of support for LO. Amazing how when I said I was not applying for the AO until the support had actually materialised, that suddenly the waiting ended and the support began

[dibly]

Thanks all so much, still having problems but your experiences have really helped. It's hard not to take the rejection personally, but at least I'm being given some practical help here, after feeling really let down by SS. I don't think they see beyond the cute baby who presents well to them sometimes.

Will definitely knock soft play in the head, but close contact classes sound doable, and there's some parks nearby which are quiet enough to attempt.

Kew, what biscuits? ;-)

This has also prompted a really honest chat with DH, and we're adamant that the AO doesn't proceed without the right support, hoping for a similar coincidence to yours upsydaisy! I'm generally really resilient, so I've been blindsided by how much this has knocked my confidence, but feeling more hopeful that decent support will get us back on track. Thanks again

[Kewcumber]

dibly - any biscuits that work - frankly I'd have dangled crack in front of him if it would have made him make eye contact.

It's hard not to take the rejection personally - it is - in fact it's nigh on bloody impossible. I think you just have to accept that and see it as your job to make her bond with you. You bonding with her kinda comes along with the package.

I found the first few months really hard for exactly the reason you mention. Everyone is so blinded by the fact that you have a cute little baby that they don't think there could possibly be any issues - how on earth could a one year old have any issues - right?

But there are those who specialise in attachment who would say that an adopted child having no attachment issues, ever, at all would be the exception rather than the norm.

No-one told me that I would fail to instantly bond with the cutest child in the world. It made me feel completely abnormal. But I wasn't, it was completely normal and you need to keep working away at it. It worked out for us in the end but it was a conscious decision rather than any falling in love.

If its any consolation I now adore my DS - he is the best thing that ever happened to me and he was worth the extra bit of work.

[Italiangreyhound]

Dibly sorry if you have said this but have you taken baby swimming yet? I think they can go from 4 months old, but check with health visitor. The closeness in the pool, skin to skin, the depending on you to hold her up, are all good things (IMHO) for bonding.

I really hope you get the help you need.

Try not to take it personally, it must be very hard. But baby is young, is reacting to all that has happened before so try not to feel it against you. You maybe just need to win trust and that will take a while but actually that trust if won will be good, strong, they will have seen you are dependable, this is just my humble opinion.

[Buster510]

Dibly - It's hard not to take the rejection personally - absolutely, it really is, when you've dreamed of something being possibly a certain way for so long. It can and does really really hurt. I always thought what on earth is wrong with me?! what more can I possibly do! I really really struggled with it. I felt at the time I could have handled anything other than rejection better.

I felt it was holding me back from actually wanting to bond with DS too, it was much like a vicious circle. I used to feel envious of DH, others as well as even FC, it was a really black and dark place for me. It took months of opening up with family, breaking down, wanting to sleep the days away, not eating, opening up with SWs, going to the Doctors (for me). I was honest from the start I was massively massively struggling, if I hadn't of been, who knows where I'd be now.

I can't exactly remember when I 'toughened up' so to speak, or when it stopped bothering me so much, but when that happened our bond developed and continues to now - for both of us.

We tried swimming in the very early days, unfortunately our first experience wasn't great, as DS chose to grip with all of his might to the side of the pool, or anything other than trust me to hold him, I dare say if a stranger had offered he'd have accepted! We kept going however, as he did enjoy being in the water, and now he loves being with us both in the water and goes to swimming lessons. So in the long run I think it is good for building up trust.

keep your chin up, find some me time, and remember the rejection isn't you as a person, it's who your little one is scared of 'letting in'. Get the help you need for you and your baby. It does get better

[Kewcumber]

Swimming is a nice idea if it works. DS unfortunately was phobic about water (couldn't even have a bath) and so spent the first year of "swimming" screaming the place down so not ideal for bonding!

[Upsydaisymustdie]

Ha and earplugs retrospectively for Kew! Swimming would be a total disaster for DD as well - terrified of shower noises so I haven't even tried taking her until we conquer that one at home.

[Kewcumber]

shower shmower... try having a 1 year old you can't put in a bath!

[Italiangreyhound]

Dibly research your pool if you go swimming. I like ones with nice warm water, if they have two pools one will usually be warmer (the smaller one) and some will have a graded entry like a beach so easier for walking children to get into and your child will be walking eventually.

[Italiangreyhound]

I mean two pools at same place.

[Italiangreyhound]

DS took ages to get used to water, each time we went. Now if we go often once a week or once a fortnight, he is OK. If we leave it 3 or 4 weeks between going he is nervous again. He is 4.

[Copper13]

It's so difficult isn't it, the feeling that they don't care if you're there or not is just awful. Our DD has been with us a year now and reading Busters account of her experience is like reading my own, it's almost a mirror image. I struggled massively when DD was placed with us, almost ended up having a breakdown if I'm honest. I couldn't connect with the cute little whirlwind who had landed in our home, partly out if sheer fear and partly because she didn't seem to need me. I mean, how ridiculous, a 16 month old needs somebody every moment of the day but she didn't care who it was as long as her needs were met.
Like Buster, I don't know what my turning point was, something just clicked and I started to enjoy her company. We didn't apply for our AO until 8 months post placement (there was no pressure from SS,they were I should imagine just desperately hoping that I would come round and apart from a fortnightly visit left us alone)
A year later and I can see how things have changed, I love her and I think she is attaching to us quite well. I'm the first name out of her mouth the moment she wakes up, I'm the name she calls out when she wants something in the night and I'm the one she's been snuggling deep into on the sofa these past 2 days whilst she has a horrible chesty cough and temperature I'm the one she cries out for when she's hurt herself at the park etc?
We still have issues when we're out and about sometimes. She fixates on some men and won't leave them alone. At our local run around like a loon toddler gym if there's any dad's there she'll smile at them constantly standing right in front of them. She has been known to pull at their trousers to try and get them to engage in whatever activity she is doing. I don't know what to do other than constantly re engage her with me if I can.
If there's no improvement in the next 6 months I think it's something we will seek help about.
Have you got a parent facing pushchair? They are very good for long walks where she has to look and listen to you babbling on about anything and everything!
Hang on in there, you're on the ball and things will improve I'm sure. X

[dibly]

Swimmings a great idea, DH is on hol next week and so it's one of the activities we're hoping to do. She's regressed tho in that she now hates having her hair washed, absolute rage, so it could go either way.

We went to rhythm time at the local library this morning, a bit mixed with her spending most of the time looking at the teacher or the mum next to me, so in the end I confided into the mum that she's adopted and very confused ATM, luckily she was great, but I came out feeling horribly stressed. Walked home chatting to her, she spent the whole half hour refusing to communicate or look at me, til falling asleep; but then was lovely during lunch.

SW appt tmrw, psychologist on Friday. My gps referred me for counselling but there's a 6-8 week wait, so we clearly need some help sooner. For anyone who's received support, what were yiu offered, and what worked?
We're thinking theraplay as a minimum.

Finally thanks so much again, this feels like a lifeline right now (I know that sounds melodramatic but it's true). X

[Copper13]

With regards to counselling, when I spoke sobbed/snotted to my GP he said the same as yours did, 6-8 weeks. There was no way I could have waited that long. As we were leaving the surgery there was a poster on the wall promoting a "talking telephone therapy" . I rang it the next morning and again sobbed down the phone I was put "in the system" and was called back a couple of days later and had to answer a multitude of " on a scale of 1-5 how desperate do you feel at the moment?" type questions where they decided I was severely anxious and moderately depressed. I was deemed suitable for the therapy but had to be available for the next 6 Wednesdays between 12.20 and 12.50. That was the ONLY availability and was impossible for me as H was back to work. I had to decline their assistance sadly but it probably would have been useful had I used it.
Next, I turned to work. Luckily my work can refer staff to external counsellors and I was put in touch with a lady ASAP. She saw me within 5 days I think and then I saw her every week for 6 weeks in her own home. It was miles away, a 2 hr round trip and 45 mins session so I was away for 3hours usually. I was able to fit the sessions around my H's shifts. It made a hell of a difference, just being able to talk and cry and be listened to by someone who had NO emotional investment in the situation at all. And of course, 3 hrs "me" time once a week was fantastic too
Have you or your H got access to anything similar through your works facilities?

[dibly]

I probably won't but my H might Copper, that's definitely worth checking out, thanks.

[64x32x24]

Dibly I think we are a few weeks ahead of you in terms of length of placement, also with a young baby.

We have this thing where DD just looks away. If sat directly opposite me, she'll look to the left. Then maybe turn to the right, in a quick move, without any glimpse of eye contact. Nothing can get her to look at me.

It was worse in the early (earlier) days, and nowadays it still happens but is interspersed with periods of good eye contact and cheerful interaction.

I feel your pain - it feels soooo rejecting. In fact it probably IS rejection. And it is normal human nature that if someone consistently rejects you, you withdraw. Disengage. You don't bother anymore. Purely to protect yourself. It is not really possible to not feel it to be 'personal'.
I felt that urge so strongly at times. It is incredibly hard, to keep engaging, keep seeking that emotional closeness, keep trying, when all you ever get back is a studious gaze to somewhere else.

So here are a few reflections that help me get through this and keep on keeping on, maybe they'll help you too:

The first is, I think that sometimes when babies feel overstimulated or overcrowded or anxious or something, they protect themselves by temporarily disengaging from everything. And maybe if they are experiencing huge emotions, that they can't make sense of, but that have something to do with you; then in that moment you, despite wanting to be a source of comfort for the baby, are the one person that baby needs 'space' from most. So I tell myself that sometimes at least the rejecting behaviour may be down to DD simply telling me that she needs to take it slowly, needs more time and space, that I have been expecting too much too soon.

The second is, I think that being not-well-attached is only to be expected in the early days, and if baby were to present as perfectly well attached after just a few weeks, I'd be worried about indiscriminate affection or similar stuff. I think it does depend a bit on the age/stage of your little one - somehow I'd expect a very young baby to 'attach' sooner than an older child. Probably because the very young are so entirely dependent, and hence you get lots and lots of opportunities for meeting their needs. So I think you are right to 'listen' to your instincts - you feel something is wrong, there is still much work to be done in terms of attachment - but equally I feel that at just a few weeks into placement, it would be wrong to conclude that something is generally wrong with attachment. It might very well be that your little one just needs a bit more time to grow attached. So by all means do seek out ways to promote attachment, do theraplay activities etc., and do get help for yourself in dealing with it all, but don't despair - chances are that time will help.

And finally, the third is, I try to absolve myself from the guilt of not being perfect. I feel that DD deserves her 'third mum' to be on top of her game, and deserves not to be let down, so I start feeling very guilty when I don't respond to her immediately or cause her some distress or simply don't spend as much time actively engaging with her as I'd like. So I need to periodically remind myself that she will be all right, even if I don't do the right thing 100% of the time. It may be better for her if I always responded immediately, but it will be good enough, she will be all right, if I respond immediately whenever possible. In fact, it just has got to be good enough, because I cannot do more than do my best. And doing my best includes looking after myself as well, btw, in order to make this work in the long run.

Oh and a fourth (sorry) - I tell myself I accept her 'no' but don't take it as final answer. Ok so she is not right now willing to engage with me, I can accept that, but I will keep on trying/offering; and eventually she WILL.


You know, I always 'knew' that adopting wouldn't be an easy ride, that it would be hard. What I didn't realise is the subtlety of how it is hard. How can you explain to someone 'It is so hard, she never looks at me.' The words just don't capture the feeling, the deep twist of being rejected, again and again; it hits you on a primal, physiological level almost, it is hard to override your animal instincts and keep on engaging, opening up emotionally, seeking closeness and so on. It's draining and I think it helps if you acknowledge that e.g. don't expect yourself to be doing lots of other stuff at the same time. Household chores can wait, while you re-charge your batteries when your baby naps, so that you can then go back to keeping on keeping on when baby wakes up.

Good luck, I hope it starts improving soon!

[KristinaM]

Such a brave and honest post, 64 < respect >

[dibly]

Completely agree Kristina. In fact so many of these posts have really struck a chord, and helped me immeasurably. This has been by far my toughest week of the past three months, but one thing that has made it feel less personal is knowing that other adopted babies are exhibiting the same behaviours.

[Barbadosgirl]

64, you have such a brilliant way of looking at things.

Dilby, our pixie tends to avoid eye contact and looks around like a meerkat when overwhelmed. E.g. I was on the tube with him today (we usually bus) and he had been a bit miserable with teeth and so it was a bit of a crazy morning and he was looking around everywhere but ignoring me (he was also a bit annoyed I had put shoes on his feet). What works for us is if I hold his hand or sit him on my lap, will your daughter let you do that? I think he gets a bit of comfort but plays out his feelings by looking around everywhere. Then we got to the familiar surroundings of the park and he was all smiles and eye contact again. I know it is not on the same scale as what you are going through, but perhaps a similar reaction?

I guess adults can do it too. When I am upset about something I sometimes cannot tell my husband right away, I tell him I am not ready- he is the person I open up most to and so I guess I have to be ready to deal with my feelings before we talk. So I hold him back until I am ready. It is a bit like 64 says- perhaps she needs more time.

Hope you are getting the support you need in the meantime xxx

[prumarth]

Mine also did the ignoring eye contact and looking everywhere but me when in busy environments! With us, he used to physically push my face away from his when bottle feeding - so he would be drinking his milk and I would invariably be facing the wall with a tiny fist shoved against my cheek - not how I pictured our bonding time going! He also would look around when in supermarkets etc and just wouldn't look to me. I only really noticed the supermarket one a few weeks ago when he engaged with me the whole way round and I realised how little he did it before.
Both made me feel very "fake" as a mum, like I was wearing a giant fraud sign over my head. This in turn made me nervous / clumsy around him which makes it even worse - once, I banged him on the head with a massive box I was packing in mothercare and he wailed - I could feel the disapproving "proper" mums all behind me and I went all hot and sweaty then when I tried to pull him out of the trolley to console him, his shoe caught on the bar and pinged off over our head and hit the next baby in the queue - not my finest hour!

[morethanpotatoprints]

Hello OP and all you wonderful adoptive parents.
I know I have no experience at all wrt what you are going through but wanted to tell you of an end result.
My mum and dad adopted 3 of us, and a few months back I found out had fostered many other babies, scores of them [proud emoticon]
Mum told us about what it was like in the early days exactly how you describe. How she felt rejected and we weren't bonding like some of her friends dc had. We were all under one, in fact 2 of us were under 6 months but had been in a home for a while.
My earliest memories are of mum and Dad, my older sister and our little family. We were very close and had a strong bond with them both.
They were relentless with the time they spent with us, teaching and playing with us. I suppose I'm saying that love conquers all and none of this will matter at all as they grow, I promise you.
I still have problems associated with being adopted and notice I behave and react in certain ways, but none of it really poses any real hardship.
Just love your little ones and they will love you back twice as much. Still miss my parents everyday and it has been 7/8 years now, but this is good therapy for me too

[64x32x24]

Thanks morethan. Well timed reminder that many 'issues' associated with being adopted, though absolutely real, are manageable and just become part of who a person is; not necessarily something we need to 'parent' or 'therapy' away in order to be able to talk of a 'successful' adoption.