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Adoption

Surprised...

12 replies

Engima · 23/04/2014 13:11

Hi everyone,
We're in stage 2 of the adoption process and already have a young bc. I had been under the impression that we would only be eligible to adopt a younger child but our SW has now said that older would be fine too as long as there is an age gap of at least 2 years.
So - this has given us a lot to think about! Have any of you done this and adopted out of birth order? I've done a quick search of past posts and only found v negative views expressing that it is a terrible/irresponsible idea and that it isn't possible in this country anyway (which it clearly is given what our SW said!).
The thought of adopting an older child is quite intimidating, but as we know that there are so many older children waiting, and few adopters for that age range, I feel we really have to consider it properly.
Any stories of personal experience would be very much appreciated.
Thanks!

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Engima · 08/05/2014 01:11

Hi everyone, thanks for all the messages. There's a lot to consider but we've now decided to stick with the original plan and go younger. While I think there is quite a lot of evidence that this can work (not unusual practice in the USA with similar statistical success rate to any older child adoption) I think the worst case scenario of passing on potential abusive behaviour is just too risky for our BC. Our SW has been really supportive and said he will back us either way but agreed that our concerns were justified and good reasons to rule out going older. So, we're back on track for 1 or younger... Looks like I'll have to hang on to our baby stuff for a little while yet!

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adoptmama · 04/05/2014 11:39

I do know people who have made it work with older child adoption but I feel they were very lucky in that their first child is a very mature and calm person and although biologically he is no longer the eldest the others actually do defer to him as if he were, as he is emotionally much more mature than 3 of his 4 siblings who are older/close to him in age. So he didn't feel 'displaced.' They were also very experienced adopters (they had 3 'singleton' adoptions including one older child, out of birth order before adopting older bio siblings also out of birth order). I think they are very untypical in the success they have had but I know it took 2 years of desperately hard work, including being a stay at home mother (giving up her job) and home education to make it work. I also have another friend who adopted a second son who is older than her first and, again, it has worked well for both children. Her first son actually benefited from staying the youngest due to his attachment/emotional needs.

However I think there is good reason for the established wisdom being not to adopt out of birth order. For birth children I imagine it must be very disturbing to lose their place in the family like this, especially as many adopted children will be a lot less mature emotionally than their chronological age so you could end up with two 3-5 year olds in emotional development. It could be very challenging to meet both children's developmental needs for that reason.

I know heart strings get tugged in adoption, especially for the children 'left behind'. But you are not adopting to 'save' a child, but to build your family and you must let your head rule your heart in this case and do what is going to be best for both children. Personally I would not adopt out of birth order. It can work but I think more often than not it adds a lot more into the mix that can ultimately lead to disruption, which is devastating for everyone, including your birth child. I am surprised any SW would suggest adopting out of birth order to an inexperienced adopter and would certainly advise you against it.

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KristinaM · 04/05/2014 09:06

Don't do it. For all the reasons that everyone has said

It's far too risky for your BC. If the AC is a perpetrator , they could be physically or sexually abused. And no, SS don't always know. Even if they have suspicions, they won't say if they don't have " proof" .

Also if an Older AC makes allegations of abuse against you or your DH, your BC will be taken into care. You will need to prove that the allegations are false -it's very difficult to prove a negative. Your child could be in care for months while it's sorted out.

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Italiangreyhound · 04/05/2014 00:57

Hi Engima how goes it? I have PMed you.

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Italiangreyhound · 23/04/2014 17:15

Engima I have no experience of this. But of course, having chosen to adopt with a birth child, I have thought about the whole impact on the birth child of an adopted child.

Looking at it from your birth child's perspective I think it may feel a bit scary or intimidating to have an older child, perhaps twice their age (initially only, of course) if things did not go well.

From the point of view of you guys (parents) it could be quite difficult, taking on a new child older child at a stage you have not yet met as birth parents.

Also I feel it is a rather risky kind of adoption. If the adoption does not work out, not saying it will be but if it does not, it will be the adopted child who has to leave the family, they will bear the brunt of things if it does not go well.

This sounds a very negative post and I am sorry for that but I really feel it is not a good idea to adopt a child older than your birth child. I am personally a bit concerned that the social worker in question is thinking of things other than your family and their 'needs' in this. Of course there are a lot of children in the system and it is very good of you to be concerned for them however, the needs of an older child may not be well met if they have to share their new parents with a younger (and therefore more demanding child).

Anyway, I am sorry if this sounds negative but as a mum to a birth child and a prospective adopter I think if I were you although I would be asking others in social services what they think about this, ultimately I would only be looking at younger children.

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Lilka · 23/04/2014 16:09

Sorry for all the spelling mistakes there!

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Lilka · 23/04/2014 15:59

They're desperate to find families for hard to place (older) children - MOST agencies will not consider an out of birth order adoption because it's a high risk adoption unless it's kinship or foster family adoption (already you can see that in exceptional circumstances the general rules get bent). But I have to say, this is the first time I've heard of any agency saying that it's okay for a 'stranger' adoption.

I honestly don't think you'll find anyone here with any experience unless they are a kinship or foster care adopter - it really is that rare and unusual.

I would personally not recommend it, because it IS a high risk adoption. And I have older children, I know first hand both how rewarding and successful an older child adoption can be, AND how bloody difficult parenting kids like mine can be. I also have the experince of raising an older child with emotional issues alongside a younger child (who was adopted later on). That's also simultanoeusly somehing I do not regeret AND very very hard. My younger DS HAS been affected by his older sister's emotional issues, he HAS been negavtively impacted by it. That's an inescapable fact, much as I don't regert my decision to bring him into the family. Are you prepared to accept any negative impact on your BC?

It happens a lot more in America, and some adoptions are very succcessful, others not so. And they very much acknowledge that it's more likely to go wrong if it's out of birth order. But it's not inevitably going to end badly, they can be very succesful. So I don't think an out of birth order adoption is doomeed to end badly, not at all, but I still don't think it's worth the risk unless you have a very exceptional case

First off - are you absolutely 100% comfortable with not having another baby? Especially if you've been mentally preparing for one. That's something to think hard about. Matching is also about the needs and wants of the prospective family - don't budge if there's a part of you that really wants another baby

Secondly - Older children are much more likely to have emotional, social, developmental or behavioural issues that are immediately apparent. Especially emotional and attachment based issues. Much more likely to have been neglected and abused. More likely to have significant ties to their birth family (that doesn't necessarily mean contact, but it can mean strong emotions and memories). You need to seriously think about what needs and issues you could think about taking on, given you have a younger child too

An older child is going to need a LOT of attention, care and supervision. But because your BC is young, they also need a lot of that. Can you manage that? Can you avoid falling into the trap of thinking that just because your BC is more physically dependent on you, that means they need more attention and supervision than an older child? Because older children need a huge amount of it, every bit as much. They frequently need parenting as a younger child, because they frequently have a younger emotional age than their biological age. A 6 year old, even if they are doing well in school etc, could very easily have the emotional age of a 3 year old, and need the same amount of nurture and the same kind of parenting as a 3 year old. Then can you basically parent two 3 year olds at the same time and treat them like each other?

An older child might come out with aggressive behaviour, or mean behaviour, jealousy, many issues. What if your 3 year old gets in the way of an agressive tantrum? 8 year olds can throw objects at other people with quite a lot of force (experience! Book/train track to the head = not fun. 3 year old getting hit in the head with a book or train track or just plain old slapping and kicking - even worse. Again, experience, from after i adopted DS). Can you treat your children the same then, even in the very early days when you don't yet love your new child? After all, you've just made a lifelong commitment to the older child, whatever they do or say

What if your 3 year old is copying bad behaviour? Older children can be controlling and manipulative, not in a malicious way or even consciously, but because those are the behaviour patterns that are ingrained from their early years. A 3 year old can learn that, and be impacted by it. Teenage years? Maybe your older AC struggles a lot, but then your younger BC is right in the middle of it

These are all just things to think about, and it's all from experience. The most important bit to absolutely accept, is that older children are often emotionally younger by a few years than where they should be, and need parenting accordingly. This isn't an issue if that adopted child is the youngest in the family, but bear in mind that you're unlikely to get a reasonable emotional age gap between the two, if you adopt a 6 or 7 year old.

I'm not trying to be doom and gloom by the way - and I'm very positive about adopting older children in general - but I'm trying to be realistic as well. You really need to think carefully

Thirdly - What support are you going to get from social services? They want to meet government targets and place children. But if they want to support a more risky adoption, much as it might work out, they better be prepared to acknowledge that it's more risky and they better be prepared to give you good support.

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Kewcumber · 23/04/2014 15:46

I also find this surprising as there are good reasons for prefering adoption to be in birth order. Having said that it would totally depend on the child (and your birth child) and certainly other parts of the world do this (eg America) and it very often works out.

The real issue IMO tend to be the safety and emotions of your birth child and how you deal with that. A child with problems may be violent or manipulative and can be very difficult to deal with. If this is being visited upon a 3/4 yr old with whom you are already firmly bonded I can foresee it being difficult not only for yoru birth child but for you as well. Added to which a 3/4 year old isn;t old enough to be able to make allowances for why a child behaves as they do in teh way that a say 5/6/7 year old can.

I would be tempted to say that you wouldn't rule out the idea (depending on how you feel about it) but would only consider it if it were celarly in teh best interests of BOTH children.

I think getting along with non-siblings in a foster care situation is very different to learning to live as a family.

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Engima · 23/04/2014 14:17

Our DC is 3. I had previously been expecting to adopt a child aged 1 or under, but if we go older would want a bigger age gap so maybe age 6-8?
The fostering comment is helpful - I expressed concern to our SW about how the AC and our BC would get on and she pointed out that many prospective ACs spend time in foster families with a whole range (agewise) of other children and can get along really well, so that did make me think it was more of a possibility.

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64x32x24 · 23/04/2014 13:36

That IS surprising. I know it is legal, but no adoption agency I have looked at, would have recommended it.
I don't think you will find much experience of adopting out of birth order here. However you might want to ask your questions on the fostering board. I believe it is more common to foster children older than birth children, so you may find some accounts of experiences/potential problems and difficulties.

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Jennifersrabbit · 23/04/2014 13:27

Also how old is BC? Eg if they're 1 and you are thinking of 3 that might be different from 5 and 7.

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Jennifersrabbit · 23/04/2014 13:25

Well, nothing's impossible but ... the vast majority of LAs I've ever heard of do say no adopting out of birth order. While I am no apologist for LA policies I think there are some good reasons for this.

Firstly I think the impact on your birth child might be odd. Getting a younger sibling = pretty normal experience. Getting an older sibling = not so much. Would they feel pushed off their 'top spot' as the eldest?

More importantly, a lot of children adopted from care have particular needs as I'm sure you have heard plenty about already! They can really need the opportunity to be the youngest and have that extra 1:1 time with parents. Also children with attachment difficulties can feel the need to control anything and everything around them to help feel safer - which can include younger children. Might be v difficult for your birth child.

I think if your heart was in adopting an older child I might say think hard and look at the individual matches - every child and every match is unique. From the sound of it though you would be more comfortable with a young child anyway? I think I would advise going with that.

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