Which secondary school would you pick?

[Tallulasdancingshoes]

My eldest is currently in year 4 and we need to start thinking about secondary schools, but I’m really conflicted about what to do. There are 2 schools that are possibilities. Moving house and going private are not options.

School one - this is the school I always though the kids would go to. It’s a very big comprehensive. But it has been very poor for a number of years (ofsted 4). It has recently had an academy take over. I always thought it would get better, but it just isn’t, or not very quickly anyway. They’ve had a few heads try to turn it around, but all have left after only a couple of years.

School two - I work at this school in a fairly senior position, and have been here for 16 years. But it is a Catholic school, I’m not catholic and the children haven’t been baptised at all. This school is very much aiming for outstanding in the ofsted and has every chance of getting it. It is our closest school (walking distance) but you have to be baptised Catholic to get in. No chance otherwise. If we got the children baptised Catholic they would definitely have a place.

Here's the dilemma though. I feel it is morally wrong to have the children baptised to get into the school, but it is so, so much better than the other option. However, I know that lots of parents do this and the vast majority who are from Catholic families are really not religious at all. The vast majority do not attend mass. I understand what a Catholic education looks like pretty well having worked here for so long and I love the ethos of the school (otherwise I’d have moved long ago) but we are not Catholic.

There is only the choice of these two schools. What would you do?

[ICanSmellSummerComing]

Immoral to whom?

Immoral for a parent not to try and access the best school for their DC?
I saw a poster on here once openly admit the school her dc went too , was awful, he struggled to make friends,he was not support ed accadmically
She said she could afford to send him to the lovely private school but she said it was against her principles. I consider that to be immoral.
Our children have not asked to be born, surely it's our job to give them something that can't be taken away? An education

[ProseccoStorm]

If the DC attend a school with religious elements and are happy to be baptised, absolutely 100% option 2.

This is life changing stuff, the different could be significant and so yes I'd do option 2 in a flash. I say this as a baptised and church going person.

I'd welcome you to our church for the baptism and hope that your children may wish to attend or participate in the future but wouldn't mind if you never came again.

[Tallulasdancingshoes]

Dh and I are not completely atheist, but nor are we overtly religious either. We’re both christened CofE, married in church and dc attend a CofE primary. I imagine we’re like quite a lot of people in that way. I’ve been upholding Catholic values for 16 years at the school I work in so I’m not anti-religion at all. If this school was a CofE school I wouldn’t be thinking twice. But it’s not, it’s a Catholic school so that is where the problem lies. Pretty sure we’d be able to have the children baptised at this age as lots of people do it locally, including the children of other staff members, and especially as I have such strong links to the community. School don’t take the Baptism date into account. I’m surprised so many would be willing to baptise their dc, I thought everyone would say it was completely immoral to even consider it. Anyway no decision made yet. Thanks everyone.

[Change123today]

Do they only need to be baptised?

Our secondary is baptism before they are two, also have had their holy communion & priest to sign form for additional submission form (all the information needs to be submitted)

You do what you have to do and what feels right? We live in a similar area with the same option as you & I reckon a lot of people in the area do it. We moved here when our daughter was 6, it meant that the secondary school we had planned to we out of catchment - thankfully we had already had her baptised, but we still had to appeal when the time came for a place as we had everything except she didn’t go to a feeder a school & we didn’t get a place we live less than half a mile a way!! But she did get offered a place eventually the day before our appeal!

[ICanSmellSummerComing]

2 pink gins... maybe because they don't feel the vows mean anything because there is no god?
I know a number of vicars and I can tell you now they have admitted they know God is not real.
But it's a Great job!

[Winkydink]

Baptism all the way. If you generally subscribe Christian values (treat others well, not stealing and so on) and are not a devil worshipper then I don’t think it’s as hypocritical as you fear. That’s my simplistic reduction of the dilemma at any rate!

[2pinkginsplease]

I’m shocked at how many people would may vows and commitments and get their child baptised but not mean those vows and commitments they have made. Can’t abide liars.

I would look at moving or suck it up and send your child to school 1.

The high school both my children went to wasn’t the best in the area but they both thrived and got amazing grades. With the right family support and teacher support backing them throughout their school years.

[ICanSmellSummerComing]

Get them.baptised.

Whats

dreadul is that you have to do this to get your DC the education they deserve.

Just do it.

[JimMorrisonsleathertrousers]

Check with your church to see if they will do the baptism - if you or child's father are not baptised they may not be happy to do it?

[Tallulasdancingshoes]

Thanks for your input everyone. Lots to think about.

[BanjoVio]

School 2, any day. My friend was in a fix about whether to get her child baptised and ‘it gets them into better schools’ was my one and only response.

[Cookiecrumble22]

@Lavenderlast

Baptism asap! I get that it may feel morally wrong to fake religion. But it is also morally wrong that state funded education in your area is top quality for religious families and crap for atheists. You can’t change the world, you can only navigate it. 🤷‍♀️

I agree with this.

It sounds like the Catholic school is the better one. If it means your child will have a better education then go for it . Do whats best for your child.

[redskyatnight]

@SheWoreYellow

I’m afraid I wouldn’t let the 9 yr old decide on their schooling.
As an atheist I wouldn’t be thrilled about it, but it seems the best option, so I’d go for baptism.

I also wouldn't let a 9 year old decide on their schooling.

However, forcing a child to be baptised if it's against their wishes is a different question. And I can't imagine a priest being happy about this either.

[obsessedwithsleep]

I think it's totally wrong to baptise a child into a religion you don't believe
In. Like really, really fundamentally wrong and distasteful. I get that you're in a really tough dilemma but I don't think that's the answer.

Also, I'd be very surprised if the school would accept a kid baptised at age 10.

[Tallulasdancingshoes]

Dc currently attend a CofE primary (not church funded). So they’re used to the religious aspects of school life and are happy to take part. We have asked them yet because dh and I are trying to decide if my school is a realistic option. However, I don’t think either child would have a problem with being baptised.

[CoralBells]

It's more immoral that people from a certain religion have the option of a better education than those who aren't, so just get the baptism for the school. Your kids may decide they want to practise the religion anyway.

[Whatwouldscullydo]

@SheWoreYellow

I’m afraid I wouldn’t let the 9 yr old decide on their schooling.
As an atheist I wouldn’t be thrilled about it, but it seems the best option, so I’d go for baptism.

This isn't about a 9 year old deciding on their schooling. I too wouod not allow a child to follow friends etc if it meant they went somewhere less suitable or nore difficult to get to.

But you cannot expect a child to lie daily to cover your back fir the next few years without at least asking how they would feel.

[cafedesreves]

Get them baptised!!

[SheWoreYellow]

I’m afraid I wouldn’t let the 9 yr old decide on their schooling.
As an atheist I wouldn’t be thrilled about it, but it seems the best option, so I’d go for baptism.

[kittensinthekitchen]

@redskyatnight

Everyone seems to be assuming here that the child would be quite happy to be baptised ... has OP asked?

This! Not one other poster even seem to consider the child's wishes in this.

[redskyatnight]

Everyone seems to be assuming here that the child would be quite happy to be baptised ... has OP asked?

[Whatwouldscullydo]

@BangingOn

My take on it is that there are a number of things parents can do to influence where their child goes to school, including moving house to a more desirable catchment area, paying for independent or aligning to a particular faith. Arguably the latter is the only one available to all, irrespective of financial circumstances, so why is it any worse than the others?

Once you move house it's done. You are there. Most kids move at least once in their time at home.as parents nor fir jobs and schools and relationships etc

Same with private school. Its done and requires nothing further really from anyone.

The parents have the hard part they have ti pay and/or organise.

This is slightly different as the parent has the Easy part. They merely have to get their kids baptised. But the result requires kids keep it going. It falls on the kids to participate in all the faith based stuff . They have to go along with stuff they were never even asked if they could or would. Its the switching if responsibility that fir me would be the issue.

I went to a cofe primary I hated being forced to sing hymns and pray. I resented having the choice to form.my.own opinions removed.

To an adult looking back at all the things we have to do daily it doesn't seem.a big deal. But to a kid at the time. It can be.

Worth considering thats all.

[ArcheryAnnie]

All state school should be available for all local children, and I think it absolutely immoral that some school prioritise children from one religion over others. So I don't see any problem in going through the motions of baptism in order to get your kids in.

I am a bit conflicted about this as this route isn't available to all other families - eg if you are already a practicing member of another religion you wouldn't be able to do this - and I don't in general think it's a good idea to demonstrate to children that lying gets them advantages, but in this case I think that the massive injustice of reserving one school only for one religion trumps everything.

[jessieminto]

Option 2 all day long. Your kids only get one chance at their education and it shapes every part of their life after that.

[EATmum]

Firm atheist here, and I'd baptise the children in your situation.

The question for me is who is harmed by your action? Your children won't be (if they don't believe, it's just words/water). The wrong thing is faith being a criteria for admission to a good school.