Is it normal to live in London for 60 years and not more than 2 non-white friends?

[MareofBeasttown]

I am Indian and new to the UK. I was reading Lucy Kellaway's new book Reeducated, and mostly enjoying it ( am a fan of her work). But then rather thrown by this paragraph where she says she has lived in London all her life but never had more than 2 or 3 non-white, non Oxbridge friends! Find this incredibly strange, especially as I have only been here a year and already have friends of all races ( perhaps because I have been actively looking and can't think of anything more boring than sticking with your own race). I do find that well-intentioned people are constantly recommending Indian things and Indian clubs to me. I didn't come here to stick with my 'tribe' though.

[BuffySummersReportingforSanity]

@drainrat

No, I didn’t study British history. Why would I if I grew up in other countries?

Even a cursory knowledge of British history would tell you that there have been Asian immigrant communities here for many, many, many years.

The Raj? The British East India Company? The Opium Wars?

[Billandben444]

I'm late 60s and lived in north London until 20 years ago. I've kept up with just a handful of friends and 2 of them are non-white - they are ex-work colleagues and the workplace is what we had in common when we became friends. I need a shared interest to build a friendship with anybody - it's nothing to do with colour.

[drainrat]

@BuffySummersReportingforSanity The events you mentioned are not part of the Indian curriculum and I don’t believe they’re part of the National Curriculum either. William Dalrymple isn’t all there is to Indian history.

I hold undergraduate and postgraduate degrees studied here in in my second language, but do go on with your patronising wankery if it helps your inferiority complex feel better.

[drainrat]

Also, although I can’t understand why it didn’t occur to you, the British Raj, Opium Wars, East India Company etc all concern the British in India and actually have FA to do with immigration into England.

[Darbs76]

I’ve been in London for 20yrs and have friends from all races.

[drainrat]

There've been stacks of highly educated professional people with Asian backgrounds here for yonks. In this area anyway.

Indian students have been taking degrees at Oxford since the 1890s but there were very few of us when I was there in the 2000s.

[Edmontine]

I didn't intend to suggest otherwise, NiceGerbil. (But I lack the patience to expound an entire socio-political history of any group of people in this little box.)

[OhWhyNot]

There has been very small communities of Asians for many years

But in few areas of the country. Vast majority of people in the UK would not have even meet an South Asian person 70 years ago

My dad came here in the late 60’s and some places he went to he was stared at though racist incidents were in London

[BuffySummersReportingforSanity]

@drainrat

Also, although I can’t understand why it didn’t occur to you, the British Raj, Opium Wars, East India Company etc all concern the British in India and actually have FA to do with immigration into England.

The Opium Wars were with China, and human traffic is never one way only. Colonisation nearly always leads to the importation of workers back to the "motherland".

[NiceGerbil]

I expect it depends where you live.

The borough I'm in certainly always been loads of kids around whose parents were from that part of the world. Since I can remember I'm nearly 50.

I suppose like many things this is skewed by where you live. I know you said most but given my school was 30% Asian and DH (we grew up near each other and I just asked) 20% ish it just felt... Jarring. To me.

So I suppose understanding the very different populations that are the norm for people who live there is important.

[NiceGerbil]

Just looked my borough is at least 11% south East Asian, I only added the named countries not the other Asian etc.

That's um.. 44,000 people.

46% of people here are white British.

(Wiki data).

So you can understand why I was... What?! Maybe.

[NiceGerbil]

Don't know where east came from!

The named countries were India Pakistan and Bangladesh just FYI.

[OhWhyNot]

Yes people were bought over and though their experiences should be told they seldom have been so it’s not surprising people are not aware. And many would have been totally unaware as they simply wouldn’t not have meet any non white people until relatively recently in history

[NiceGerbil]

@OhWhyNot

Yes people were bought over and though their experiences should be told they seldom have been so it’s not surprising people are not aware. And many would have been totally unaware as they simply wouldn’t not have meet any non white people until relatively recently in history

When do you mean by relatively recently?

Just wondering.

[OhWhyNot]

My grandmother had never met an Asian or black person until the 50’s. My mum knew one girl who was mixed race at school.

This was in London. Things changed in the 50/60/70’s but it still wasn’t all of London and certainly not all of the uk

[mariebiscuits]

@BuffySummersReportingforSanity

The Opium Wars are only called such in retrospect and they started in Bengal, in India. It’s a bit of a reach to connect them in a straight line to immigration policy now.

There were fewer than 1000 Indians in permanent residence in the UK in 1945, when this data was first compiled by the Indian National Congress.

The more interesting question is the presence of African and Black Caribbean people in Britain, which goes back much further but doesn’t seem to attract the same attention.

[FaceyRomford]

Yes. Very easy. Growing up in SE London in the 70s and 80s the communities kept themselves to themselves.

[mariebiscuits]

I tend to agree with you, @FaceyRomford. My parents, Indian professionals and otherwise very sociable people, had only two white friends and one black friend in their very large friendship circle, and all had met through work.

[NiceGerbil]

It really depends on area doesn't it.

What/ when/ where/ who.

We do have a couple of closed communities here. They have been around all my life too. Totally separate from others. One is Christian one is Jewish.

Also a bona fide cult on the high street!

It's an interesting sort of area

[ResIpsaLoquiturInterAlia]

This is a strange thread suggesting that one chooses friends and vice versa - friends choose me because of issues other than being friendly and sharing something in common. Naturally having a common interest may be more conducive to friendship. This may or may not correlate with race. Racial ethnicity is not the overriding factor determining friendships but may be a coincidence.

[NiceGerbil]

Some people do only choose to be friends with those who are very similar to them though.

[Edmontine]

@ResIpsaLoquiturInterAlia

This is a strange thread suggesting that one chooses friends and vice versa - friends choose me because of issues other than being friendly and sharing something in common. Naturally having a common interest may be more conducive to friendship. This may or may not correlate with race. Racial ethnicity is not the overriding factor determining friendships but may be a coincidence.

I don't find it a strange thread at al!

Surely 'being friendly and sharing something in common' are the very things we are discussing?

What causes two people to 'be friendly'? How do they come to be in the same space? Are there barriers to entry to that space? Is everyone there on the same terms or are some of the people invisible or completely inaccessible to the others? Is it likely that particular sections of society might never, in a lifetime, find themselves in that space, so never have the opportunity to find friends amongst that group? And what does that mean - for politicians, teachers, this year's university applicants?

And what life experiences mean we will 'share something in common' with another person? How likely are two people, living in the same street, queuing at the same grocer's (something in common) to become friends? All that two people with membership of the same gym might share in common is the ability to pay the subscription. Maybe ethnicity is the only thing that prevents them from knowing each other better?

And coincidence? Is it coincidence that I was the only person of my 'type' at my Oxbridge college - or were there reasons why that was the case? What effect did that have, on not just my potential friendships, but my life chances over a lifetime? And the potential friendships, attitudes, thoughts, government policies developed by every single other undergraduate in my year?

I'm not entirely sure you would be so dismissive if you had truly thought about the question, ResIpsaLoquiturInterAlia.

[MareofBeasttown]

Oh dear. I appear to have opened up a whole can of worms, which was not my intention. It was just a casual and clearly very naive question, prompted by the fact that Lucy and I both live in London, have sons who go to the same ( very diverse private) school, and shared a profession. I see that it is a lot more complicated than that and certainly can't be covered in a post on MN.

I am not sure I know enough to address all the issues raised here. To the poster way up thread who called me "creepy" though, I didn't say I have made "close friends" in a year in a pandemic. Maybe they are not even friends as such, but I have met a few people who are happy to go with me for a walk, or a coffee, or a play, or a drink. I have done this by joining a local social group, reaching out to people who chat with me on Twitter and are in the same profession, and the parents of my son's friends. This is the expat way, and while I am well aware that people on MN may find it creepy, clingy and weird, it has served me well in the past.

[Edmontine]

You've raised a really interesting topic - why are you apologising?

[nettie434]

Don't apologise MareofBeasttown. It is an interesting topic and you come across as a really interesting person to know.

My friends from a different ethnic group to me have been met through work and when I was more active politically. I know hardly any of my neighbours. I think work is an important place to meet people who are from different backgrounds in terms of age, ethnic background etc.

I've not read her book and now I want to know how she feels about her friendship group!

Ive realised that my friendships have narrowed over Covid. I'm incredibly impressed with your ability to meet lots of new people MareofBeasttown! I think I need to do some rethinking.