How do you discipline this? 5 year old

[Pipppin]

Hi,
I’ve name changed but I’m desperate for help with my 5 year old. He’s not your typical ‘naughty child’, he’s very clever & also sensitive (e.g. cries at tv programmes).

But since he’s been in reception he has:
• Last year - Ripped up somebody’s painting (because somebody told him to). Was shouted at & told to make her a sorry card.
• Last week - Punched one friend on the bum & one on the arm because they made themselves a sword/shield & said they would make him one but didn’t. Was shouted at & told to make sorry cards.
• Today - Blew a raspberry (spat) at somebody in the toilet after another child blew a raspberry in their face & threw water at them.

He’s also very heavy handed with his little brother & always gets in his space.

I’m at an absolute loss at what to do as it’s now two incidents in a week, one involving the same child. Funnily enough his ‘best friend’! I’m absolutely mortified & just don’t know how to deal with it!

What punishment is correct? What can I actually do to help? I just don’t know what to do, I thought last week he had learnt his lesson but this is ridiculous. The teacher & the child’s parents must think he’s an absolute brat, I’m so embarrassed.

[DicklessWonder]

I’m due another baby v soon

Don’t underestimate the impact of that on a 5 year old. I still don’t forgive my parents for having my sister 40 years on!

[Pipppin]

Hey, I just wanted to come back & update as I had some really useful feedback from most.

Anyway, it’s been 6 full days of no shouting. I actually can’t believe it! DH has been fully on board too & although DS’s behaviour at home (eg listening/tantrums when he doesn’t get what he wants) hasn’t improved much, the way we deal with it makes for a much better atmosphere & things don’t blow up. Me & DH both agreed how much nicer it was!

We are really keen to keep this up, I think we both spiralled getting really frustrated with lockdown & the children’s behaviour that we didn’t really know how to deal with it.

My son is still v v sensitive & cries everyday (not sure if that’s normal or not for a 5 year old) but he is much quicker to apologise without being asked! We are also love bombing both & there are lots of I love yous & kisses & hugs. To be fair, we are a tactile family anyway so there was lots of that anyway but this is really helping.

I’m due another baby v soon so I really hope with the pressure we can both continue this new outlook & don’t go back to shouty parents! It’s really going to be a focus for us though, as we both agree they are still so little & I think unfairly think of 5 year old as being more mature than he is!

[itsgettingwierd]

Yay. Sounds like a much nicer morning.

Hope it continues

[Merename]

@Pipppin

Thank-you all again.

We had a good chat last night about no more shouting & good behaviour, in the mornings there’s usually a bit of shouting (eg asking him to do things 3x then shouting when it gets to the 4th) but I got down to his level & asked for things & he did them pretty much instantly?! I said wasn’t this morning nice & calm & he said yes. It really was so much calmer.

It also helped with my 3 year old (as I ask him to do things over & over again!). He didn’t do things instantly but I definitely saw an improvement in the way I asked / how he reacted.

Walked into school & saw school best friend & both played like nothing had happened, spoke with school mum too so all sorted.

Anyway, I really feel like this is the way forward & I feel less stressed with it! Let’s hope we can keep it up as a family, might get a sticker chart as PP said & do some kind of reward for listening / good behaviour.

This sounds lovely op and a lovely thread showing that many parents go through these things. It’s resonating with me thinking about expecting too much from your eldest, who is also 5 and also clever. She gave me a great talking to when she had a shit time at her 5th bday (small party in the garden). I was running about trying to make the other kids happy and so focused on politeness and people being welcome that I missed that it was her bday and ok for her to express her wishes. Not to be rude but her asking to get the best of things on her bday is ok. She was really clear in telling me how it felt and I saw what a pressure I had in my childhood to be good and kind. All important of course, but not at expense of own needs and feelings all the time. Seeing the way we pass on poor parenting is the most important thing as then you have a chance not to just keep going unconsciously.

[amusedbush]

My mum was incredibly shouty and I HATED it. I was terrified of her and as an adult I cry if anyone raises their voice at me.

Definitely try to resolve issues without shouting.

[sausagerollcake]

Discuss it from his point of view? How would he feel if Mrs Teacher ripped up his work because X told her to? Explain if it happened to you, you would be sad and explain why.

He may not yet be at the stage where he can see other points of view and sometimes it helps to explain it simply.

[Redruby2020]

@itsgettingwierd

He's 5! 3 incidents in a year of silly behaviour is actually good going!

If he's heavy handed remove him from situation and tell him he's being to rough.

Stop shouting at him for being 5 and stop the sorry cards which are the biggest pile of wank in consequences going.

Teach him to recognise what he's done is wrong - not repeating behaviour is far more effective than sorry.

Lol at the sorry cards 🤣
Yes I was going to say shouting not helping as I do it myself so I know, stressful few months of being on my own and in new place, and DS and his father no contact now due to SS involvement, so all been building up, but when I shout etc he will do it back so I am learning!

[121Sarah121]

I absolutely get the feeling of “everyone will think he is a bad boy”. My son had been in fights 3 times in his first week at school.

It wasn’t pleasant overhearing the teacher telling the parents of a little boy that my son had burst her son’s nose.

Anyway, there’s a no shouting rule in our house. If either of us shout (me or my son) we go to our rooms and do deep breaths. I think it is important to model good self regulation. If my son starts shouting, I send him to his room and follow and sit with him (at the door) and do co-regulation (breathing at this point) with him. Afterwards, I talk him through what happened and try and get him to think about it by naming the emotion and using “I wonder”. I use a mixture of PACE parenting and Bruce Perry’s 3Rs approach and focus a lot on relationships. I don’t think there is a need for a reward chart. He is a good boy. You’d never be away from it! When my son was struggling with shame (especially when the kids in the class had been calling him a bad boy), I used a sheet with a list of things which describe a good friend (I can’t remember the exact wording) similar to the school. It was stuck on his bedroom wall. It had things like, sharing, kind words, compliments, playing together etc. At the end of the day, we would talk about it and I would give examples of times throughout the day that I saw him doing things “I noticed you were waiting for your turn on the slide at the park, that’s a good way tommake friends” or “you noticed your friend had a new coat and said you liked it, I wonder how that made her feel”. It’s a nice way to remind him that he does more good things in a day than bad (although we never use the word bad. Nobody is all bad).

We do natural consequences as much as possible. You throw water at someone, they get angry with you and you might get wet (especially if they throw back). If school pull me aside, I talk to him about it “I wonder what happened” and try and get him to tell me and name my emotion (disappointed, sad, worried about the other child).

Sorry for the ramblings. Your post really struck a chord with me. I know the other parents think my son is the bad boy.

[Newcastleteacake]

Ahh, so, he gets angry and lashes out. You get angry and lash out.. He is sensitive and you are sensitive.. Seems like he is very much like his mum.

Understanding the similarities between you both should be a useful tool in guiding and helping him. And yourself at the same time.

[Pipppin]

Thank-you all again.

We had a good chat last night about no more shouting & good behaviour, in the mornings there’s usually a bit of shouting (eg asking him to do things 3x then shouting when it gets to the 4th) but I got down to his level & asked for things & he did them pretty much instantly?! I said wasn’t this morning nice & calm & he said yes. It really was so much calmer.

It also helped with my 3 year old (as I ask him to do things over & over again!). He didn’t do things instantly but I definitely saw an improvement in the way I asked / how he reacted.

Walked into school & saw school best friend & both played like nothing had happened, spoke with school mum too so all sorted.

Anyway, I really feel like this is the way forward & I feel less stressed with it! Let’s hope we can keep it up as a family, might get a sticker chart as PP said & do some kind of reward for listening / good behaviour.

[itsgettingwierd]

Not that uncommon .....

[itsgettingwierd]

It could be a vicious cycle.

He gets angry and lashes out (not great but happens at this age)

Then he gets angry at himself and feels bad and next time he plays that's on his mind.

That then causes heightened emotion and therefore he does it again.

But he doesn't sound a bad kid - just a 5yo who hasn't yet got self control.

And he has a mum who wants to support him and will listen to those who have been there - so he's got great opportunities to improve this.

It's actually also not that common for children who are clever academically and in communication etc to have delay in skills such as emotional regulation.

They've only been on earth 5 years and they will acquire the skills at different rates. He's got the academic ones first.

The others will follow

[Aquariussuns]

I once read that shouting at children causes a surge in adrenaline in their bodies which makes it difficult for them to really listen and understand why they’re being shouted at - as they are in fight or flight mode.

I think the shouting probably isn’t working here. There’s a really helpful podcast called the connected parenting podcast. Its really helpful at talking about ways to discipline children without causing a disconnection between you and having to shout.

[Hotdrop1]

Watch Supernanny - or look at her website for top notch evidence -based advice. Will probably involve naughty step and positive reinforcement (attention) when he behaves well to shape up that behaviour. Also talking to him about his behaviour when all is calm i.e. after the naughty step - asking him to tell you why he had to go on it so the penny drops for him, rather than you telling him why he's on it. Don't talk to him about his behaviour when he's in the midst of behaving badly as will be worked up and won't be able to take it in.

[Pipppin]

Also don’t want him to get a ‘reputation” but I guess that’s my own personal projections. I’m sure teachers don’t write off kids in reception!

[Pipppin]

Yeah, he does seem to dwell on it. Whether he says it for effect or actually feels like that I don’t know. Eg last week when he hit his friends he went to play by himself & said he was angry with himself & that he shouldn’t have any friends.

He is a good boy & his teacher says he is clever so she thinks he could also sometimes be getting bored. I just don’t see getting called by the teacher 3 times when we are just into March as being acceptable. But I don’t know what acceptable is - I genuinely can’t comprehend why he’s done these silly things so then I get frustrated & feel the only way to deal with it is to shout & punish more (eg send him to his bedroom) but it just doesn’t work anyway. I think having a calm talk is a much better solution, I’m really going to work on the shouting.

Sorry, don’t really know what point I’m making there, I just don’t want him to upset his friends & I know it upsets HIM, so why the bloody hell he does it I don’t know (obvious answer is because he’s 5)

[Findahouse21]

I'd be really disappointed if dd hit someone at school. She went through a phase of scratching at nursery aged 3 and I think what helped was a) knowing we were not pleased and b) talking through the anticeedants and when we came across 'triggers' when we were with her, talking through how she could manage them better

[Alexandernevermind]

So many autocorrect typos! Sorry!

[Alexandernevermind]

You sound as though you have good intentions and a bring up a lovely boy. We've done the shouting thing is no good bit. Its lovely that he wants to make cards to say sorry as it shows he is acknowledging the feeling of others, it is a really nice idea to encourage this (also thank yous for birthday gifts etc).
I do worry that you say he gets angry and disappointed with himself? I wonder if this is because he is expecting the shouting. My feisty daughter did 10x worse at this age and really didn't worry about it beyond the telling off at the time.

[Pipppin]

Thanks for all your advice, I had a good chat with him at bedtime & lots of cuddles. He does get disappointed in himself (or says he gets angry with himself) which obviously makes him sound much more mature than he is. I am wiping the slate clean & will go through this with a fine tooth comb again.

I didn’t mean anything by ‘typical naughty child’ just a throwaway comments as the kids at my school who hit / destroyed things / etc tended to be those who genuinely didn’t care about their actions or consequences, whereas he seems to be v sensitive (cries a lot, very ‘paternal’ the way he acts in general & can be v loving) & seems to lash out or lose his head then regrets it.

He is the eldest child, yes. I genuinely think I forget how little he is & have too high expectations so yes leads to overreacting. Shouting is horrible & doesn’t do anything anyway so it needs to stop.

Some good book suggestions here thankyou!

[Lesserspottedmama]

Don’t be hard on yourself OP you are doing your best but all this regularly shouting is no good long term. !Raising our children raising ourselves’ is a really good parenting book as is ‘extraordinary parenting’ and ‘the book you wish your parents read..’ oh and ‘how to talk so kids will listen’.
Positive communication is so important and relationship is key to successful parenting.
Again don’t beat yourself up. Make sure your boy knows you love him unconditionally and will always listen to what happened and why.

[RavingAnnie]

He's 5. You are overreacting. And wtf is a "typical naughty child"

[jellybe]

This isn't unusual behaviour you just need to think about how you deal with it. School will disappoint him at school and I'd be having a serious talk with him about it at home. Then rough behaviour at home I'd remove him from the situation, explain he is being too rough and if he continues X will happen - we use time out in this house.

[Cyw2018]

Read the gentle discipline book by Sarah ockwell-Smith. It includes all the evidence behind the good bits of advice you've been given by various posters in the reply to this thread, and how to put it all into action.

[itsgettingwierd]

@Pipppin

Woah, bloody hell bit of a pasting. I feel like I’m going about this all wrong & it’s clear to see I am.

It is me doing the shouting. He did say one of the teachers did shout last week & said “do you want to go to the headteachers office?” But as far as I know, they don’t do shouting. I can’t believe having the teacher pull you to one side 3 times so far this year is considered good? I genuinely feel like I’ve had a rocket up the arse feeling like a terrible parent who’s creating a naughty child.

So if the school have given sanctions you wouldn’t? Just calmly speak to him about his behaviour & why?

God I feel awful now! I am putting the children to bed but taking on board all the comments. He is 5 but I feel like maybe I do treat him like he’s older as he is clever, I feel like he knows better, but yes - he is 5 (was 5 in September) so maybe I need to give my head a wobble.

He's your eldest? It's quite common at times to want children to be perfect as you can mistake their behaviour as a reflection on you.


It's not. Kids will be kids. It's how effectively you deal with it that matters.

At 5 he needs to know you make your own mind up, don't copy etc as you will get into trouble. But it needs him to realise why his behaviour was daft to learn why it's not a goof idea to do it again.

Give yourself a break. We've been harsh but you've take it on board so you can act differently and that means things will change.

Honestly it's not that bad. I've worked with children for 23 years. Children behaving like your ds don't even register on my radar nowadays because I know it's normal. In fact in the staff room the likely reaction from teacher will be a giggle and eye roll and a "you'll never guess what my year Rs did today!"

Most things infants do become great stories of how mischievous they are