Need a little help with your language please

[giantangryrooster]

I'm Scandinavian, I try my best with your language, but am still bewildered about livingrooms/dens, toilets/loos etc .

But can any of you enlighten me on two words?

Where I'm from we call it summer house, what do you call it... Cottage, holiday home, second home and what is the difference?

Secondly wood/forrest, is a wood smaller? How small, then?
Do you call it wood or woods?

Just confused can you help, please.

[HMSSophie]

Forest is French in origin, so "posh". Wood is old English, so not posh. They mean the same thing.

When we started to write in English around 1250, because some (posh) people spoke French and Latin and the rest of us spoke English, the written English that emerged used both words.

These days I'd say a forest is more likely to be bigger than a wood, on balance. And more cultivated - a wood is wilder.

[wildcherries]

Fascinating thread. I'm scandi too, and I did not know that summer house is a posh garden shed! You live and learn ☺️

[Institutkarite]

@Destroyedpeople
Thank you for your explanation about the different words for animals and their meat, I have never thought about that before. I will add one though, chicken is the animal and the meat.
Op I would call the photo of your home a chalet.

[giantangryrooster]

Oh dear, but our wood is not that wild (semi-tented) where does that leave me?

Sparklfairy i guess, I'll just have to use my thickest accent when speaking and when writing always state I'm 'forrin' and hope for forgiveness .

[iVampire]

I think all birds have the same word whether creature or dinner, ditto sea creatures.

It’s just the main four-legged ones that are dietary staples which don’t: venison, veal, mutton, beef, pork. Exceptions: lamb and the now rarely eaten goat.

That’s not including euphemisms, or different words gif differently preserved meats such as bacon, ham and of course kippers/bloaters (where the difference rests on presence or absence of spine)

[iVampire]

‘ Oh dear, but our wood is not that wild (semi-tented) where does that leave me?’

Plantation or arboretum probably!

[BonnesVacances]

To me, a wood has its emphasis on the fact that it contains trees and a forest has its emphasis on its size and density.

I would say holiday home in the context you describe.

[totallyyesno]

@giantangryrooster what does semi-tented mean?

[giantangryrooster]

kippers/bloaters (where the difference rests on presence or absence of spine)

iVampire excuse me. Could you please explain this to me?

[sawollya]

I'm Irish, fyi, but here goes

A second home covers everything, it could be rented out.
A holiday home is somewhere that you probably escape to, it's probably empty when you're not there. A holiday home might not be fit for habitation in the depths of winter.
A cottage is probably a small detached one storey dwelling! Maybe it has a small amount of the attic made in to a bedroom but it is basically a one storey property.

A wood is smaller yes. There can be a wooded 'area' but a forest is larger. You could get lost in a forest.

[CMOTDibbler]

I think the problem in trying to find an equivalent word is that in the UK we don't have an equivalent building - in Finland/Sweden the summer house is a building that you couldn't/wouldn't stay in during the winter as they aren't insulated or have heating to allow it

[giantangryrooster]

totallyyesno what I'm trying to say is that it is tended to as in trees are sometimes being cut down if not healthy, but left to rot for wildlife preservation.

[Fifthtimelucky]

On the bathroom issue, about 40 years as a rather naive teenager I had a part time job as a waitress in a hotel. Some American tourists came in, had their meal, and then asked where they could 'wash up'.

We had a rather confused conversation in which I explained that the washing up was done in the kitchen but they didn't need to do it. I was getting a bit anxious that they were going to refuse to pay and insist on doing the washing up instead!

I also had a confused conversation with some different Americans who asked me where the bathroom was. I said that they could use a bathroom only if they were hotel residents.

Obviously in both cases all the poor things wanted to do was go to the loo and wash their hands!

If the British and Americans have such trouble understanding each other, it must be even harder for those trying to learn English!

On the forest vs wood(s) issue, in the UK I would only use 'forest' for a named forest eg Forest of Dean, New Forest or Sherwood Forest. Wood(s) is much more general. In a piece of creative writing I would use 'forest' if wanted or convey the idea of somewhere of vast, dark, and scary.

In Harry Potter, there is a 'Forbidden Forest' or 'Dark Forest'. A forbidden or dark wood would not be as powerful an image.

[sawollya]

@HMSSophie ''Forest is French in origin, so "posh". Wood is old English, so not posh. They mean the same thing''

Really, I got the feeling that although French people and the French language as a whole is revered by the british, using french words in place of English words is a bit meh

Serviette versus napkin
Juliette or Juliet


I can't think of more examples but I have a definitely sense here that putting a French word in where there is an English one, that's a bit downmarket.

This doesn't hold for expressions such as l'esprit d'escalier

[Cedilla]

trees are sometimes being cut down if not healthy, but left to rot for wildlife preservation.

More like a nature reserve then, OP? Natural woodland?

[giantangryrooster]

Love your story Fifthtimelucky .

What I can't get past is loo, to me it sounds as a not very nice way of saying it, like bog or John. But then we say toilet .

[giantangryrooster]

Cedilla not nature reserve perhaps natural woodland maybe.

[iVampire]

^kippers/bloaters* - quick tutorial on the haddock

1. the living swimming fish is the haddock
   
2. sometimes the eaten version - the larger loins - is called a haddock, and you can have these plain or smoked (and the smoked ones can be undyed or died yellow do they contrast nicely in a fish pie). They are particularly nice in batter from a chippie (colloquial name for a fish and chip shop, which of course dies not sell only fish and chips)
   2

[Kalifa]

I don’t mean to hijack the thread but can anyone explain what and then some means? It is usually added to the end of a sentence and I can never figure out what exactly its purpose is. Could you please put it in a sentence for me as an example and explain it that way?
I know I could always google it and I did that but the explanation offered there made me none the wiser.
Is it widely used in American English too?

[iVampire]

2 be continued!!

(sorry, hit ‘post’ by mistake)

[Sparklfairy]

@Kalifa it usually means 'extra to what you expected' - that's the context I would use it in anyway.

So, 'we had enough food for everyone and then some', 'he won enough to buy a yacht and then some' kind of context, if that even makes sense

I really should stay away from these sort of threads, I've managed to confuse even myself

[iVampire]

Oh FFS - I’ve mucked up - they’re not haddock

They’re herring

Which

1. can be eaten fresh as herring
   
2. can be eaten picked as pickled herring (or rollmop if we’re feeling Scandi)
   
3. can be eaten raw as ceviche
   
4. can be eaten smoked as either kippers or bloaters, depending on whether it’s the whole fish - bloater, or split, eviscerated, and de-spined (but watch out for missed bones) - kipper
   
   Typically bloaters are salted less and smoked for a shorter time while kippers are lightly salted and smoked overnight, but there can be regional variations which I am too cowardly to tackle head on

[user1495884620]

May I throw "covert" into the mix? Very small wooded area, usually maintained as shelter for game, particularly pheasants.

[Bananabixfloof]

Oh I'm going to put a spanner in the works.
The literal woods behind my house is in fact a forest, but it's called a park.
So I can say I'm going for a walk in the woods/forest/park and they are all correct.

As for bathroom/washroom/loo, did we all forget water closet or was it only my grandma that used the expression?

[Destroyedpeople]

@iVampire

Lamb = l'agneau