Child benefit changes - what do you think?

[KateMumsnet]

Next week, the Inland Revenue will write to 1.2m families about upcoming changes to child benefit eligibility. The changes mean that from next January, single-income families earning more than £50,000 per year will no longer be eligible for the full amount (currently worth £1,055 for the first child) - and those earning over £60K will no longer receive it at all.

The changes are controversial. Dual-income families who both earn just below the 50K cut-off - who have, in other words, a family-income of just under £100K per year - will continue to receive the full amount, leading to criticism that the changes penalise both stay-at-home mothers and single parents. Accountants are warning that new partners of divorced parents could also lose out. And the entire process is so complicated - with families forced to fill out complex self-assessment forms for the first time - that the Inland Revenue has reportedly postponed sending out the letters because they can't find a form of words that families will be able to understand.

What do you think? Will you be affected by the changes, and what will it mean for your family? Are stay-at-home mothers being unfairly targeted - or is staying at home a luxury which shouldn't be subsidised by the taxpayer? Should child benefit be universal - or should it be available only to families who are really struggling? Let us know what you think here on the thread, and don't forget to post your URLs if you blog on this subject - we'll be tweeting them over the next few days.

[PollyJules]

Well this government may get a shock when the squeezed middle turn their vote against this government at the next election.

George Osborne is my MP and in my experience/opinion of him he has no clue about real working families and the stress these sorts of cuts are having on them. I doubt he has ever had to worry about how to juggle the family budget in order to pay for the basic needs of his children.

Sorry George but don't count on my vote for your Tatton seat next time.

[MoonLighter]

The Tories have certainly lost my vote over this. Not for wanting to means test CB to the richest but purely for the unfairness of the way they have done it. One parent earning 60K with the other a sahp (total household income 60k) is considered rich but 2 working parents on 30k each (and paying less tax!) with a total household income on 60K is NOT considered rich. It makes no sense.

If only a 50K income did give me and my dh a mega rich lifestyle!

Plus the most patronising thing i have ever read in Sundays mail was George Osbourne saying "I am going to give up my CB." How very kind of you to give it up you multi millionaire patronising bastard. People like him earning millions are the ones who SHOULD'T have been claiming it anyway!

I would never vote Labour, the Lib dems are shit so i think it will be UKIP for my vote!

[Furball]

I think this just proves, that each party is the first to blame the other for all the crap going around, but they can't do any better when given the chance.

This particular thing has not been thought through, there are too many if's and but's and no answers are given.

We are all supposed to be in this together we're not the 'we' is just 'us lot'

[expansivegirth]

GINGERBREAD FAQ on NI Contributions and earning over the 60,000 threshold

Will stopping my child benefit affect my national insurance contributions or my pension?

It is important to make sure you have a claim for child benefit but opt not to receive the payments if you have an income of more than £60,000 and don?t want to pay the charge. This way your national insurance credits will be protected.

If you are a new parent, or have not claimed child benefit before, you should still make a claim, even if you have an income of £60,000 or more. This will ensure you still get your national insurance credits. You can then choose not to receive the payments after you have made your claim.

For more information on the high income child benefit charge visit the HMRC website at www.hmrc.gov.uk/childbenefitcharge.

[ihategeorgeosborne]

I had to laugh at the comments where some you (I think Savannah and Polka) said that they have been protesting and kicking out about this for years. I too am in that camp. My Dh has banned me from discussing CB in the house (although he thinks it's bloody unfair). He says, there's nothing more I can do and I'm stressing myself out too much. I have written to Cameron, Osborne, been to see my (tory) MP. All to no avail. I have thought about going to prison to just prove a point (I still might). I have inadvertently taught the DC to hate Osborne and Cameron. When they come on the news, my eldest says "that's the horrid man that mummy doesn't like". I hate these people so much. I can't believe that I ever voted conservative. I never, ever will again. I have well and truly learnt my lesson.

[diyqueen]

Surely the amount of money the government is going to save by restricting CB is going to be vastly outweighed by the cost of administration for self-assessment, opting out, queries etc etc etc. And then there will be more costly changes a couple of years down the line. So, they could save a fortune now by just leaving it as it is!

We're not going to be affected (DP earns less than the threshold, I'm a SAHM) but the changes seem unfair and complicated to me. Surely it's a family benefit - be that single or dual parent family - aimed at making sure children are provided for - so it should be applied to family rather than individual income if it's going to be means-tested.

Personally, I appreciate child benefit but don't really feel 'entitled' to it - we live within our means and are comfortable, and could continue to provide for dd without it.
But - I would far rather see the government taking serious action on those who choose not to work and to live off benefits.

[pot39]

it was george osbourne's genius idea about 2 days after alien gove announced the abandonment of building schools for the future and thereby confirming they were the party of private school supporters and those whose children had long since grown up. i have a stay at home husband and my income is relatively high but still less than £100k so i end up paying more tax than a family with 2 earners who can still claim child benefit. only the truly rich and those with private incomess won't miss child benefit especially as the children get bigger quicker need more clothes and shoes, haircuts, school trips, dinner money etc etc. i wasn't going to anyway but i will never ever vote for a party that takes money from children and young people at every opportunity. the whole point of chb was that it followed the child so if a high earning partner just gave a limited income to the children's carer she or he would at least have chb for essential food and clothing.
And Cameron, Clegg and Osbourne my teenage sons have noted your dismissal of them and will NEVER vote for your omnishambling parties either.

[ihategeorgeosborne]

Agree with all the posters who say that 50k isn't a massive income. Too right it isn't and I am sick to death of constantly feeling like I should be greatful to be married to a high(ish) earning DH. We were at Uni together and both had the same earning potential. In fact, when we graduated, I earned more than him. However, when our first dc came along, I went part time. My career stalled significantly after that, where as my DHs took off. When Dc 2 came along, it wasn't worth me working to pay for the child care and commuting costs, so we downsized significantly and lived very frugally. Then unplanned dc3 came along!!! We still live very frugally. My Dh works long hours and is away a lot. He has got where he has, in part, because I have been here to support him and look after the Dc. He couldn't have done it if I'd had a high flying career too. So, yes, I feel that I have made some huge sacrifices and the downside is a serious lack in confidence for me now and not knowing what I can do work wise anymore. I bloody well resent being made to feel second class by this stuck up government and having my CB withdrawn, when a family on a joint income of nearly double ours can still have it. It really boils my piss quite frankly.

[Mandy21]

mum2luke I didn't mean to cause offence, I'm sorry if I did. I wasn't implying that your DH hasn't worked hard, I'm sure that he has, it was just the generalisation you made that I objected to - that HR tax payers are in the salary bracket they are because they've worked hard. That might be the case, but there are others that work equally hard (e.g. nurses) but are unlikely to be HR tax payers simply because of the profession they have chosen.

[PolkadotCircus]

I hate I could have written your post myself right down to the boiled piss!

[PolkadotCircus]

Mandy the nurses I know aren't on poor wages far from it-part time contracts supplemented by lucrative overtime often at night so no cc and a gold plated pension my Dp would have to spend 3/4 of his monthly salary on to get the equivalent. If said nurses have a partner also working they'll be doing very nicely with the extra tax allowance,salary and CB on top.

But they have a better image than us pampered sahp with a partner in the private sector on 50-60k.

[sweetkitty]

Ihategeorgeosbourne - are you me? Exact same situation but 4DCs so more money lost.

When I told my friend we were losing it she told me it serves me right as DP earns too much! She works pt with her Mum doing her cc for free, their household income probably the same as ours but they keep CB so will have more than us and be paying less tax.

Another example of the unfairness

[CrimesNapoleon]

What irritates me about losing our CB is that DH works long hours so doesn't see his dc who miss him whilst being unable to help out as much as he would like to, I also work PT but by the time cc costs have been taken into account, travel and parking (it is not possible to use public transport as we are very rural) I take home £300. I don't earn enough to get ccv through work as it would take me below the minimum wage cut off. With £300 take home I am struggling to contribute further to my private pension - there is no way I am every going to get a state pension which is fair enough (although I would prefer to put my NI contributions into my private pension if I really had the choice - selfish, probably).

I can't afford to work any more due to the cost of childcare but hope to work more in the future when they are at school ft. But as my company is not hiring too much now I am not sure I am going to get myself more hours is we don't get out of the current climate.

My SIL and BIL earn combined the same amount that DH and I do, they too have travel costs, BIL is at home by 4-5pm (DH 7-8) SIL works same hours as me but has no childcare due to MIL doing all the childcare (I don't have this option - MIL offered when I went back to work, then decided against it 1 week before I started back after ML - her choice but she thought we didn't need the help like SIL did). My parents are older and at a push can have the older one for half a day here and there (both have had health issues in recent years) and I do a fair amount for them when I am not at work. They get to keep their cb. I hope that this new childcare thing will be beneficial to us, although I suspect that we too will either not earn enough or earn too much iyswim and be stung again. Help with the cost of childcare would be beneficial and sadly that is what my cb was doing, bringing my take home inline to about £400. I am hugely jealous of my SIL, I do feel its unfair. At this moment in time I know that it is hard and I am hoping that we will get past this, but it grates that MIL thinks we are hugely well off when we are the ones that don't go on foreign holidays! Or Holidays.

[Savannahgirl]

Very eloquently put ihategeorgeosborne
The question is: what are we to do?

*Riot in the streets - that's old hat, been done too many times
*Sign a petition - our Government are so arrogant they would probably just shred it

• Burn our bras - hmmm, again, already been done
  *Send our children to Downing Street with letters - my DC's have such contempt for Dave & George (vicariously through me..) that they'd probably do or say something horribly embarrassing which would entirely negate the point of the excercise!
  
  Sadly, I feel we may just have to suck it up for now and hope that a better alternative is conjured up by someone far wiser and better at maths than George Bloody Osborne.....

[Xenia]

It certainly have seemed to annoy just about every group from housewives with a husband on £50 - 60k+ to single parents on those sums paying £30k a year childcare for a daily nanny who are worse off than many on £20k a year who get tax credits and the unemployed who don't work at all but get housing benefits and other benefits which only in April will start to be capped at £26k plus CB of course.

All they have done by removing a simple benefit which was universal is annoy people. Many more than they realise will simply pay more into pensions so that income is under £50k as people sensibly engage in the lawful tax avoidacne this Government hates so much and thinks is a moral wrong or husbands and wives will even out earnings more so they keep the CB. So just like the short lived higher rate tax band which raised very very little and in April will go they will have done a measure which is not as successful as planned although we will see. Apparently it will save £2bn.

To put it in perspdective we spend about 42billion a year on interset on the national debt - that is not paying it back nust the interest. So the CB savings might help service a tiny bit of that interest. We are ni a huge mess. This is just tinkering at the edges. They might have done better to scrap entirely CB and tax credits and winter fuel allowances entirely and freeze benefits for a few years. http://www.debtbombshell.com/public-spending.htm

[ihategeorgeosborne]

I would just like to say that I am so pleased to be able to come on here and tell you all how pissed off I am about this and to realise that I am not alone. This has honestly been driving me nuts for the last 2 years. I feel for you all, but it is good to know that there are a few of us!!!

Together, we'll fight them. We mustn't let them get away with it. I've made it my lifes work for the last two years. I can not stop now. Let them get away with a gross injustice like this and god knows what they'll do next.

[Savannahgirl]

Ooh Ihate that's good fighting talk.
You sound like Winston Churchill!

[Headinbook]

Ihate agree completely. My family have learned to keep well clear of me when I get onto the subject. Not being able to discuss it openly in RL has driven me round the twist, and was one of the reasons I started blogging earlier this year. Reading everyone else's stories, and knowing that we're not alone in (a) being shafted or (b) not being rich beyond our wildest dreams though falling foul of the cut-off has actually been a comfort.

I think it's going to stay like this for a long time, though, as either rescinding or extending the policy would be politically catastrophic :-(

[LiveItUp]

Me too. So bloody unfair. One other thing that gets me ......

.... we spent ours on the kids (needed every penny despite being a "higher" earner) so that money went directly into the economy. DIRECTLY. But they will now keep it and waste it. Even if they were efficient with it, by the time it went through so many layers of bureaucracy there would be little left for them to "boost" the economy with. What a ridiculous waste.

[williaminajetfighter]

I have a feeling the govt isn't trying to penalise stay at home parents but, rather, they put a threshold on 60k for households because its easier to administer. Lot trickier to work out than trying to work out if couples are living together are not.

[PolkadotCircus]

Liveitup it gets better than that many will stuff it into pensions with salary sacrifice so they'll be spending tax payers money anyway on a nice little boost to the partner's pension who CB was never meant for in the first place!Neither the children it was meant for,the tax payer or the economy will benefit from it and all will lose.

You'd have thought all that private education and an Oxbridge degree would give them a bit of common sense.

[sweetkitty]

Another unfairness

We lose ours yet my friend SAHM with a self employed DH earning 100K will keep it as she "works" for him, get paid a salary, clever accountancy will mean they will keep it.

[ihategeorgeosborne]

My parents and in laws have learnt to keep well clear of me too when I'm 'on one' about CB, especially when I tell them that they shouldn't get WFA, etc!!!

headin, I too have been blogging for the last two years. It's the only thing that's kept me sane. I've learnt a lot from it too! My understanding of cabinet ministers, MPs, politics and the economy has increased too, so there have been some pluses!!

I think they will keep the policy too. I predict that UKIP will win a lot of votes from the tories in 2015 and labour will get an overall majority. I think both labour and conservatives will offer to rescind or drastically alter this cut in the run up to the election. I will never trust a tory again. In fact, I'm rather looking forward to my MP coming knocking in May 2015. I will tell him exactly what I think of the conservatives. He will rue the day he ever knocked on my door!

[Savannahgirl]

Polka I don't think George Osborne's posh school can have taught him Maths very well either.
Most of us can work out that £98, 000 is a larger number than £60,000...but he clearly has not grasped that basic calculation.

[ihategeorgeosborne]

sweetkitty, I have a friend like that. She has 4dc and they are very well off. Her dh has his own business. They seriously go on holiday abroad every school holiday. She was telling me the other day that they will be able to hang onto their CB with some clever accounting. This is going to send me to an early grave I tell ya!