I'm in HR, AMA

[Hollyhocksarenotmessy]

AMA in general - if you want advice on a personal employment issue please go to Work or Legal forums.

Thanks for your responses to me @Hollyhocksarenotmessy. I imagine being in HR you never get thanked (only moaned about).

Can I ask a question about a situation that I am watching unfold at work?
A manger had a performance review which did not go well for them. As a result, they have gone off sick citing stress & bullying.

How does this get resolved? Or even moved forward? I don’t believe they were bullied, I know they were struggling in the role. It is a horrid situation for both the manager and their boss.

Most bullying policies will specifically point out that normal performance management is not bullying. That's because this is not an
uncommon reaction, but it doesn't stop their performance being managed.

Employers want to work with people who are struggling, as helping them improve is best for everyone.

@HermioneWeasley .. it just seems they get a lot more money than other departments . When I see Gr jobs advertised they are a lot more than other departments/ roles .. is it because of the law aspect ?

[quote huuuuunnnndderrricks]@HermioneWeasley .. it just seems they get a lot more money than other departments . When I see Gr jobs advertised they are a lot more than other departments/ roles .. is it because of the law aspect ?[/quote]
What departments, specifically? What roles are you comparing them to? Sales? IT? Finance?

If there is a difference there will be a reason. When demand outstrips adequate supply, salaries rise. When supply outpaces demand salaries fall.

I always toyed between HR and teaching as careers; I did a Business degree and teaching. Now I’m looking at some kind of training I could do to start some qualifications (I couldn’t afford right now to give up a teacher with responsibility payments of many years salaries for the entry level HR admin sadly)
Is there any training you’d recommend if just for interest? Or any routes in? Any advice much appreciated

Ps as in qualifications in HR (I love the coaching/training/motivating/interviewing etc bits of my job although I appreciate that’s a small part of a HR role

I really don't think HR roles are paid any more than other corporate roles - in fact at Director level they're probably paid less.

For top roles in HR you're looking at years of experience in varied specialisms, mist likely a L7 qualification, and lots of business skills.

Even HR admin roles are reasonably specialised compared to general administration.

Unless a role is tied to a remote geographical area or a contentious industry (e.g. nuclear, life sciences) I've never noticed any particular pay inflation when compared to e.g. finance, IT, estate management etc.

I disagree that a union will always agree with an employee. They will have a similar role in advising people if employment role is being followed.

Do you work in a company with a recognised union and how would you describe your relationship with them?

@ArosGartref

I disagree that a union will always agree with an employee. They will have a similar role in advising people if employment role is being followed.

Do you work in a company with a recognised union and how would you describe your relationship with them?

I have worked with unions, and generally found them wanting to find a fair and practical resolution to the problem, same as HR.

I've occasionally come across an ex union rep employee who is stuck in the 80s and wants to keep playing games with HR on their own behalf. I just don't rise to it.

@Myusername2015

Ps as in qualifications in HR (I love the coaching/training/motivating/interviewing etc bits of my job although I appreciate that’s a small part of a HR role

CIPD are the industry standard qualifications.

@Myusername2015

Ps as in qualifications in HR (I love the coaching/training/motivating/interviewing etc bits of my job although I appreciate that’s a small part of a HR role

I meant to say they have an L&D (learning and development) route that might be of interest to you.

"If you are in an organisation where what is good for the employees is not the same as what is good for the employer, then you need a new job."

I'm in an INDUSTRY where that's the case. And yes, this year has given me some pause for thought...

I've met many a union rep stuck in the 80s, maybe even the 70s. It's not helpful.

Union Representatives are often referred to as Staff Representatives and that's no mistake. They do represent the interests of the staff, either collectively or individually depending on what's going on. But this has to be within the context of what the employer (legitimately, and in the interests of the business / organisation) has to do.

They are there primarily (I think) to hold employers to account, and to provide pastoral support to their employee members.

A good union representative will be very realistic with their member.

From my own experience, in individual circumstances, I would much rather a distressed individual be accompanied by a savvy union representative, since they can add perspective, and act as a supportive sounding board for the individual - than engage with their employer without that support.

Yes some are stuck in the 70s. I've been asked by some blatantly if I'm qualified to do my role. I've been on the receiving end of swearing, mindgames and abusive emails on occasion. But thankfully those representatives are a dwindling minority these days.

@huuuuunnnndderrricks actually HR roles are paid less than other professional departments - less than finance, commercial, actuarial, sales etc. Probably in line with marketing. Interesting that the 2 professions which are more female dominated are the lower paid.....

Also interesting that 70% of the HR workforce below Director-level is female, yet only 25% of HR Directors are female? Stats may be a little out of date by now but you get the picture...

75%

Yes, it is strange, isn't it, how HR is so female dominated, except at the top.

Our HR population skews even more female than the industry average, but somehow our global CHRO, and a good portion of the HR ExCo, are male.

Indeed @ConcernedAboutWarrington. When I was a personnel officer I wondered where all the male HRdirectors came from!

This article is a good one explaining some of the sex imbalance in the profession. Please overlook the conflation of sex and gender People Management

No one has answered the PP about a situation where someone near retirement is coasting by and not busy , whilst someone else is very busy and paid less?

I've seen that myself in previous jobs. Person was on performance monitoring and did less than half the job the rest of the team did, lots of support and help, made many mistakes . Nothing was really done
Infact they ended up being moved to a quieter place and indulged until they retired.

Is it down to not very robust management who have their hands tied as some people know how to work the system and have the Union on speed dial?

@bringbacksideburns the OP has responded.

This comes down to whether there is the will within the company to address this particularly thorny issue.

As a HR professional in this situation I'd be saying to the department manager or similar 'you can address this person's health / performance or you can allow perceptions of that person's health / performance to influence the rest of your department'.

I wouldn't be concerned about the pay disparity if pay bands / payscales were in place. Sometimes people find their way to the top of payscales and have people around them paid less who are better.

It's not the payscale that's the problem.

It's the willingness of the department manager to address it. And the skill of the HR practitioner to flag it (it's probably the elephant in the room anyway), get the manager's buy-in, present options, and support the tricky work of addressing it through performance and perhaps ultimately dismissal.

It can be done.

No one has answered the PP about a situation where someone near retirement is coasting by and not busy , whilst someone else is very busy and paid less?

They have, actually. The specific question was whether it constituted legal discrimination, and the OP responded that it did not.

It's arguably not good people management, but there's nothing illegal about that. Depending on how far they are from retirement and how difficult and expensive it would be to performance-manage them out, it could be a rational decision. I could also see plenty of people on here who would respond to that situation all "how could you even think about firing someone who has only a year to retirement, they've given the company years of halfarsed service, are HR soulless devils or what".

A friend of mine is in HR and when he worked for a large retailer a man fell from a plane and landed in the car park as it came into land. He had to go to the branch to help liaise with the authorities and help the staff effected
What’s the weirdest situation you have ever dealt with ?