I'm in HR, AMA

[Hollyhocksarenotmessy]

AMA in general - if you want advice on a personal employment issue please go to Work or Legal forums.

@Plussizejumpsuit

I've mainly worked in charity and non profit organisations in the cultural sector. But when I worked in a for profit buisness I very much felt the hr department was there to protect the company rather than for the interests of employees. Do you think there's a truth to that?

Actually, there is a new (sort of) question here.

I have worked in commercial and not-for-profit, and they do have different approaches to HR.

I'd say that for employees, there are pros and cons both ways.

Eg, not-for-profit are likely to have a very generous sick leave and pay scheme. Which is genuinely wonderful. Unless you are one of the other employees in the team who have to cover someone else's work for months on end until the company sick pay runs out, and the employee has a miraculous recovery.

Sometimes the tougher but more flexible commercial way is better for employees overall. Sometimes the softer not-for-profit more rigid way is better for employees overall.

@huuuuunnnndderrricks

Why are you paid disproportionately more money than other careers ?

Not the OP, but I'm curious about this. What makes you think HR pay is disproportionate and compared to what?

In general, the pay for any job is set by how much value it delivers and how hard it is to find people with the required skills.

@huuuuunnnndderrricks

Why are you paid disproportionately more money than other careers ?

Ha, are we? I disagree.

What is the best way to get into a HR position, not top job any position, if you have no previous experience in that department? Is there a chance?

@Mortigua

For someone thinking of retraining , is this a bad time for going into HR do you think? And is it ever worth training online to get the legal and other knowledge or is it only really possible to train on the job?

It's a tough time out there in all careers and HR is always hard to get into.

I wouldn't advise paying out for a course, but ACAS have excellent free learning on different aspects of employment law that would give you a head start. It would show employers you are keen.

@huuuuunnnndderrricks why do you think HR is paid disproportionately?

Thank you that’s really useful to know. And good idea on the courses too I will take a look.

''People say that HR are on the side of the company like it's a bad thing. Every department works for the company. No one complains s about IT, or Marketing, reproduction working for the best of the company. I'd you want someone who is independently on your side as an employee, join a union.''

That says it all really...

Above all HR have to respect employment law and make sure that employees are being treated fairly within that framework. No wonder most people think HR departments are pretty much useless.

@SpectralPlot

What is the best way to get into a HR position, not top job any position, if you have no previous experience in that department? Is there a chance?

Yes, there are always new people coming in, it's just competitive.

I'd say there's 2 main approaches.

1)Academic. Do an HR degree or Masters. Or a business degree with substantial HR. Get on an HR graduate trainee scheme. Not what I personally recommend, although it obviously works for some people.

2. Directly in to an entry level role. Could be through an apprenticeship, which includes CIPD qualifications. Other common entry routes are doing admin tempting in an HR dept. Direct recruitment into an HR admin role. You can independently study cipd but most decent employers will sponsor you through it.

There are other ways to manage problematic people out...

Such as?

@Requinblanc

''People say that HR are on the side of the company like it's a bad thing. Every department works for the company. No one complains s about IT, or Marketing, reproduction working for the best of the company. I'd you want someone who is independently on your side as an employee, join a union.''

That says it all really...

Above all HR have to respect employment law and make sure that employees are being treated fairly within that framework. No wonder most people think HR departments are pretty much useless.

Take a look at my other answer where I say we protect companies by ensuring they comply with employment law, which of course also protects the employees. And that I would never do anything illegal or unethical. It seems we actually agree.

Employers aren't always right. Neither are employees. We have to steer everyone in the right direction. They don't always like it.

@MintyCedric

There are other ways to manage problematic people out...

Such as?

Capability if their performance is not acceptable.

Conduct if their behaviour is not acceptable.

If you just don't like them, tough, that's no reason to get rid of them.

@SpectralPlot

What is the best way to get into a HR position, not top job any position, if you have no previous experience in that department? Is there a chance?

OP, hope you don't mind me shoving my oar in on this one, but this is my take

Entry level in HR is basically HR assistant or maybe HR Ops - glorified, specialist admin. Unfortunately these roles are very popular and you would be competing with new grads, including some with degrees in HR or business, at least in large organizations.

Things that would give you an advantage would be having been a manager yourself, having data analysis skills (becoming a key HR competency), upskilling yourself in HR proactively, and/or making an internal move into the role with an employer you've already proved yourself to. The standard in HR in the UK is CIPD qualification but the ideal way to do this would be on the job, sponsored by your employer.

Depends a bit on whether you'd be doing it totally cold ie applying to external HR assistant roles or whether you already work for a large employer and could work towards it internally. I'd get familiar with the CIPD standards level 3 and level 5 anyway and see what free virtual learning I could access.

Thanks both!

I'm very happy for other HR people to jump in, thank you.

Thank you @Hollyhocksarenotmessy I'm glad you didn't think I was gatecrashing!

Also I totes forgot apprenticeship is an option now. It's a great one, and has a v high chance of a good job at the end if you work hard, but the pay is shite to start!

Essentially if you want to get into HR without very closely related experience, it's probably gonna cost you, either by paying out for qualifications or taking a paycut to go back to a very competitive entry level.

Isn't that true for most career changes though? I career changed into HR, took a big initial drop in pay, but quickly made up ground and now earn more than I did previously, with better prospects.

Fellow HR professional here too. Cracking thread and questions. Thanks @Hollyhocksarenotmessy

How difficult (or not) is it to get rid of a staff member on ground of long term (certificated) sickness absence?

Does it depend on the nature of the illness at all?

@Hollyhocksarenotmessy

Isn't that true for most career changes though? I career changed into HR, took a big initial drop in pay, but quickly made up ground and now earn more than I did previously, with better prospects.

Oh, sure. Unless it's in demand enough that there are funded training routes. I didn't mean to imply HR is different than most career changes, although it's probably more competitive than some at the entry level.

I'm not an HR generalist myself (I'm a subspecialty) but I've worked in/with corporate HR basically my whole career. I'm lucky right now to be doing an apprenticeship myself in data science in order to become a hyperspecialist in HR and talent analytics, so I've been able to keep my existing role and pay while adding a new string.

Yes agree, that would be the case for most career changes.

It's just that HR seems to be quite a popular destination for career-changers - I think that's because it's quite relatable.

I get lots of people asking me if they can 'have a chat about getting into HR'.

I have to be very realistic about the likely pay at the beginning (and the strenuous nature of the qualifications and the work itself).

It basically comes down to motivation - those that really want to will find a way.

When people ask what to do I say - look at the free online resources, follow certain bloggers, connect with certain individuals on linkedin, sign up for certain free email updates, read everything you can get your hands on... To be honest that puts a lot of people off! Like most professions, it's not as easy as it looks!

@LasagneQueen

How difficult (or not) is it to get rid of a staff member on ground of long term (certificated) sickness absence?

Does it depend on the nature of the illness at all?

It comes down to capability. Even with a disability or a long term illness, employers need someone who can do the job. So, yes, you can eventually dismiss someone for this.

You have to be fair and reasonable in your approach. If theres a way to enable that person to return, perhaps with changed hours or duties, special equipment, other adjustments, you should.

Different organisations will have different policies on how long an absence has to be before they start thinking about dismissal. They will need to follow a legal process, which starts with trying everything they can to help the employee.

Also in HR. (Clearly did something very bad in a former life.). Agree with everything Holly has said.

People already AMA.

This morning I was asked to “take a look at someone’s laptop because their emails have gone funny”.