Gaby Petito death - coercive control and male violence (CW)

Fariha31 · 21/09/2021 11:53

Nothing suprises me with this subject. I had a cop threaten me with charges for trying to report an abusive man. The cop evendiantly thought it was hillarious.
Lets hope he is never the victim of an abusive bully eh...

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OvaHere · 21/09/2021 12:07

I haven't followed the case but from what I have read it's really awful. This poor young woman seems like she was failed at every turn.

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EmbarrassingAdmissions · 21/09/2021 12:09

I just can't get my head around how blind society is to abuse and coercive control of women by men.

Look at the number of threads on MN where posters seagull peck the OP trying to establish how it's genuinely all her own fault and she is a prime mover and not a victim.

Despite Sally Challen and the excellent work of her sons, there is still negligible understanding of the many faces of coercive control (physical, emotional, financial, reproductive), even among women.

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Ghostsintheshelf · 21/09/2021 12:24

I haven't really been following this either, though I heard he returned home without her, claimed he didn't know where she was, and was then able to do a runner.
I've not watched the body cam footage but it's interesting to see the comments under the emergency call from the witness. Yes, it's good that the guy rang in to report it and that he had the wits to get the numberplate, but isn't that just what people should do when they witness a crime? The bar for men is set so low that a lot of those commenters are treating this guy like an absolute hero.
I'll read the full story in a bit.

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jeaux90 · 21/09/2021 12:35

She seems terrified in the clip. It's heartbreaking.

Im still not over the woman in Brighton who reported the stalker (ex) several times then she got fined for "wasting police time" the stalker killed her.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/teenager-fined-reporting-stalker-police-23775721?utm source=facebook.com&utmmmedium=social&utm campaign=sharebar&fbclid=IwAR3XO7HQ1P31Wer1alcuNr9ISe7wn8zmOpYl0WX61vqeAlLSpPk29UYWLL8

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KimikosNightmare · 21/09/2021 13:54

@Ghostsintheshelf

I haven't really been following this either, though I heard he returned home without her, claimed he didn't know where she was, and was then able to do a runner.
I've not watched the body cam footage but it's interesting to see the comments under the emergency call from the witness. Yes, it's good that the guy rang in to report it and that he had the wits to get the numberplate, but isn't that just what people should do when they witness a crime? The bar for men is set so low that a lot of those commenters are treating this guy like an absolute hero.
I'll read the full story in a bit.

Plenty of people, men and women, would have done nothing. If the caller had been a woman would you point- score then if comments praising her had been made?

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NewlyGranny · 21/09/2021 13:57

She's frightened out of her Witt's but trying to rationalise by blaming herself. The repeated " He doesn't think I can do it," (the blog) was telling alongside his patronising "She's trying to set up a little blog," in a disparaging tone to the officer.

Of course he didn't want to have the world watching their trip! Too many people to spot his tactics and alert her, and too much having to be on his best behaviour, posing and enthusing.

More parallels and similarities with Chris Watts than feels comfortable.

Do police have key revealing questions they can ask, like, "Do you want to be away from him for a bit? Do you always feel safe alone with him? Are things between you getting better or getting worse? Would you like us to call home for you?"

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ArabellaScott · 21/09/2021 14:07

How do we even make sense of this?

By teaching our children how to recognise and avoid dangerous, controlling, abusive people, situations and behaviour, as best we can.

By helping women who reach out.

By guarding our services.

By teaching each other how to state a strong 'no'.

By learning about boundaries and consent.

By taking 'me too' and making noise.

By forcing politicians to give a fuck about women and girls.

By standing up and talking out.

By learning to weather the storm.

By maintaining our women's networks and groups.

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MissLucyEyelesbarrow · 21/09/2021 14:26

I think the police were attempting to respond in an appropriate way, but had been blinded by propaganda that female on male violence is the same as male on female violence. They actually say this at one point, and this leads them to treating her as the aggressor, because she was witnessed hitting Brian. They weren't able to assess the situation in the round, and see what is so plain from the video - that she is the one who is terrified and at risk.

That said, I doubt anything they did at that point would have saved her, as they had no grounds to take any action against him, and she would no doubt have denied he had done anything criminal. They did at least separate the two of them overnight, which was a pragmatic choice, and potentially gave her the chance to call for help.

So sad.

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InvisibleDragon · 21/09/2021 14:56

Thank you ArabellaScott. You are right about everything there.

I'm really struggling with how plausible and reasonable Brian sounds talking to the cops. I can see how easy it is to gloss over his controlling behaviour. It's so much easier to just go along with it than to confront the reality that men who seem so 'normal' can be abusive.

NewlyGranny
Do police have key revealing questions they can ask, like, "Do you want to be away from him for a bit? Do you always feel safe alone with him? Are things between you getting better or getting worse? Would you like us to call home for you?"

I think police do have questions like this. But if you ask someone in an abusive relationship - even a really dangerous one - they won't necessarily answer these questions in the way you would expect. They are likely to minimise the abuse, to blame themselves or adopt the abuser's narrative about what happened. And that's not just because they are frightened of repercussions from their abuser. It can also be because the degree of gaslighting they have been subjected to has distorted their sense of reality; because they love their abuser and are afraid of losing (the image they have of) them; or because acknowledging the degree of contempt with which the abuser views them, or the genuine level of threat they pose, would be overwhelming.

OP posts:

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Dwrcegin · 22/09/2021 22:24

@MissLucyEyelesbarrow

I think the police were attempting to respond in an appropriate way, but had been blinded by propaganda that female on male violence is the same as male on female violence. They actually say this at one point, and this leads them to treating her as the aggressor, because she was witnessed hitting Brian. They weren't able to assess the situation in the round, and see what is so plain from the video - that she is the one who is terrified and at risk.

That said, I doubt anything they did at that point would have saved her, as they had no grounds to take any action against him, and she would no doubt have denied he had done anything criminal. They did at least separate the two of them overnight, which was a pragmatic choice, and potentially gave her the chance to call for help.

So sad.

What annoys me is they released this police footage, then a day or so later the 911 call.

The 911 caller stated it was him chasing her up and down the street hitting her. If the police had taken that info on board (or had that info), maybe she'd still be alive. Maybe.

Its sad she was sobbing through the whole police footage, but dismissed as an emotionally disturbed woman. I wonder would female officers have seen it any differently?

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CaveMum · 23/09/2021 14:42

Highly recommend listening to the Real Crime Profile episode that has just dropped about this case.

The podcast has been running for a few years and they cover lots of high profile cases inc OJ Simpson, Woody Allen, Michael Jackson, Jeffrey Epstein, Madeleine McCann, Meredith Kercher, etc and I highly recommend listening to all of them.

One of the presenters, Laura Richards, is a British criminal behaviour analyst and active campaigner on domestic abuse, stalking laws etc.

This is the episode summary:

“ On August 12, 2021, Gabrielle Petito and Brian Laundrie were pulled over outside of Moab, Utah.The police officer, whose body cam was on, initially stopped their van for speeding and reckless driving.He realized Gabby was distraught and tried to establish what had happened and why Gabby was so upset. He was soon joined by another officer who had been responding to a possible domestic violence call in town where a witness said he saw a couple driving away in a white van, with a woman named Gabby.What happens next on the body cam footage is disturbing to watch. Jim and Laura breakdown the behavior of Gabby, Brian and the officers in that 1 hour and 17 minute tape and discuss the police interaction and other intervention opportunities and strategies that should have been considered. What these officers desperately needed was the DASH risk assessment tool, that Laura created, so they could have asked the most important questions, and really understood Gabby's answers.”

Episode link - podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/real-crime-profile/id1081244497?i=1000536206545

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MissLucyEyelesbarrow · 23/09/2021 17:54

I agree @Dwrcegin. I'm not trying to defend the police. What I mean is that they didn't just dismiss it as 'another domestic' and drive on once they had checked that neither of them were seriously injured. In some ways, this makes it even more frustrating. The police do seem to have wanted to do the right thing, but were so blinded by their prejudices and (I would guess) their training on treated men and women equally in DV situations, that the conclusions they came to were patently absurd.

Men can of course experience coercive and violent behaviour from women and I don't dismiss the psychological impact that has. But men are rarely killed or seriously physically harmed by women. Any DV/intimate partner training that tells police to treat the sexes equally is detrimental to women's safety.

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Dwrcegin · 23/09/2021 18:37

100% agree, they probably didn't know what they were actually looking at and by all accounts he had a lot of people fooled. Even her family said they saw no red flags.

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CaveMum · 24/09/2021 06:06

@Dwrcegin

100% agree, they probably didn't know what they were actually looking at and by all accounts he had a lot of people fooled. Even her family said they saw no red flags.

According to this thread there were signs, even if her family were unaware. Her best friend said that he hid Gabby’s ID to stop her going to a bar.

twitter.com/laurarichards99/status/1441244553655177228?s=21

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Sparklfairy · 24/09/2021 06:11

I was threatened with assault charges by police - for punching a guy in the face when he attempted to rape me. The (female) officer said, "if you had really been attacked you would have marks on your wrists..."

Its endemic. Men are consistently believed, women are deemed hysterical.

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ChiefInspectorParker · 24/09/2021 06:13

This reply has been withdrawn

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frazzledasarock · 24/09/2021 07:10

I think this is classic. Men who are perpetrators of DV, very often do call the police and accuse their partner of being the abuser. Ex did this. And I was so so fragile and worried about ‘his career’🙄 I didn’t defend myself. But one look at me tiny pretty much all bones I was so abused I could barely function, and him huge fit and healthy and no way was he being beaten up by me. And importantly my DC cling to me and were scared of him.

Luckily for me the police saw right through ex but i still had to fight against his lies. As those higher up in authority chose to believe ex.

The people trained in DV however could see right through him.

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CaveMum · 24/09/2021 07:27

@ChiefInspectorParkerivtotalky agree, Laura Richards is an amazing woman - she works so hard campaigning for women. I’d love MN to do a webchat with her though she’s got plenty on her plate with a newborn right now!

Both Crime Analyst and Real Crime Profile are well worth listening to, I’ve learnt a lot about cases I was unfamiliar with and understanding the patterns of behaviour in abusers.

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PlanDeRaccordement · 24/09/2021 07:29

This is so sad. The police interactions were driven by the report from the witness who saw Gabby hitting Brian. They had it in their head that she was abuser and he the victim.

But most DV is more complicated than that as you have primary vs dominant aggressor. Primary is who hits first, but dominant is who is in control. She may have hit him, to stop verbal abuse/insults about her “little blog” and how “she can’t do it because she’s too stupid/ugly who’d want to read a blog by her?” but he was pushing her to hit him and controlling the situation the whole time. You can see in the video she is a wreck and he’s in complete control.

I feel so bad that the police didn’t keep them apart and get her back to her family.

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MrsOvertonsWindow · 24/09/2021 07:34

This poor woman.
It seems that the current trend for removing all accurate sex based language does women so much harm, especially in relation to DV. Also in schools where "peer on peer" abuse hides the massive numbers of assaults and rapes of girls.

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CaveMum · 21/10/2021 17:02

“Human remains” and items belonging to Brian have been found in Florida.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-58989242

However there is some suspicion around the findings - officials have been searching the area (as it’s known Brian was familiar with the area) for a while, yet as soon as his parents come to “help” they find these items. Some people suspect he may, with his parents help, be trying to fake his death but we’ll have to wait and see what the DNA evidence turns up.

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vivariumvivariumsvivaria · 21/10/2021 18:03

It is bizarre, Cave.

I'm not a fan of conspiracy theories - but if Epstein is living in Mexico with a new face then I'm willing to bet that Brian is safe and well - if missing a few fingers or a foot.

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CaveMum · 21/10/2021 18:15

Yes it’s telling that it is only “partial” remains that have been found and that the fact they’ve got to wait for DNA tests means it’s definitely not a head so no ability to use dental records.

The “belongings” also look suspiciously dry for items that are in an area that has been underwater for a few weeks.

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CaveMum · 21/10/2021 18:40

Interesting Twitter threads to follow, the journalist is Miami based so following the case closely on site.

twitter.com/brianentin/status/1451226869274189825?s=21

Now confirming that the remains are “bones” which is a little strange considering he’s only been missing just over a month…

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Gaby Petito death - coercive control and male violence (CW)