Facebook post on women's sport

[DistantVworp]

I know my post got deleted last night, but I wanted to give a brief update. Beardy woke bro is still silent, but a female friend of his agreed with me (and also made other points on T-levels, anatomical structure).

Another female friend then told me it was all tiresome terf talking points and I was being unkind (and that I didn't think intersex people exist) plus I needed to use trans women not transwomen blah blah.

Anyway, posted again to point out

1. Everything I posted was factually correct and wasn't it interesting that she dismissed it as terf bullshit without actually being able to counter the facts.
   
2. Intersex women in women's sport is a totally separate debate. It's one I think is important to have, but has to relevance to the topice we were discussing.
   
3. Don't call me a terf - and linked to terfisaslur.com
   
   Feeling a lot more confident today - onward and upward!

[notyourhandmaid]

I'm glad.

I think seeing the ways in which that term is used can be very illuminating.

[DistantVworp]

Now we're onto TWAW and I'm a horrible bigot. So I asked her what makes a transwoman a woman....

[DialSquare]

I'm glad you reposted OP. You're doing brilliantly. They expect people to go away at this point as they have no counter argument apart from calling names.

[Awning10]

This might be useful...

boysvswomen.com/#/

[PerfectPenquins]

She is embarrassing herself not coming back with counter points but name calling. She needs to grow up.

[MadBadDaddy]

[quote Awning10]This might be useful...

boysvswomen.com/#/[/quote]
Or maybe not:
"The IOC's policy follows the second line of thought and requires that males have low levels of testosterone in order to compete against females. To my knowledge, none of the boys on this site had testosterone within the levels required by the IOC. If they did, they would almost certainly have not performed as well. Because of this, the statistics are not an apples to apples comparison to what competition between males with low testosterone and females would look like. "

[CatChant]

@DistantVworp

Now we're onto TWAW and I'm a horrible bigot. So I asked her what makes a transwoman a woman....

See this is the bit that always perplexes me. Why not respond with: "I think you are wrong and these are the reasons why..." instead of hurling insults.

[DistantVworp]

Well, after calling me a transphobe a few more times, she deleted all her posts.

Awning10 - thank you for that, I've seen it before but have now bookmarked for future reference!

Although it does slightly look like I'm a nutter ranting to myself, I'm leaving my posts up (and I've posted that link to boys vs women) - with any luck some people might read it and think a bit...

[Manderleyagain]

I missed the deleted thread so not sure what the start was.

But on the use of the word t**f, if what you have posted doesn't get through, I have found the blog post by Prof Deborah Cameron from 2016 useful. She is a cultural linguistics academic at Oxford uni. Her blog asks if it's a slur, and concludes it is (on the whole) because of how it's used. Search "debuk terf" to find it.

[DistantVworp]

@Manderleyagain - that's a really interesting read, thank you!

[aliasundercover]

I used to use 'transwoman' as I don't like writing 'trans woman'. Recently I've been avoiding even that as I don't want the word 'woman' to be used at all when describing these men.

I use 'trans' to 'transperson' these days.

[CatChant]

Well, after calling me a transphobe a few more times, she deleted all her posts.


Ah, nothing like a reasoned argument to get your point across... And indeed she produced nothing like a reasoned argument.

[gardenbird48]

"The IOC's policy follows the second line of thought and requires that males have low levels of testosterone in order to compete against females. To my knowledge, none of the boys on this site had testosterone within the levels required by the IOC. If they did, they would almost certainly have not performed as well. Because of this, the statistics are not an apples to apples comparison to what competition between males with low testosterone and females would look like. "

but we also know that testosterone suppression makes very little overall difference to performance. In fact I think they found that increased training can counteract any drop in performance, so I think one lot of apples is probably as good as the other.

[ChateauMargaux]

Maybe remind people that sex and gender are not the same and the reason for segregation in sport is because of biological advantages conferred by puberty puberty and testosterone and nothing to do with how people feel, what they are called, what pronouns they use or how they dress, all of those things can happen and be respected within the norms of society but they do not override the reasons that sec segregation is in place for sport. There are specific rules in place for intersex athletes where they have been deemed necessary.

[Helmetbymidnight]

Well done, op.

It sounds like all she's got is 'be kind' and shit over women.

Hopefully, she'll go away and think about it!

[MadBadDaddy]

@gardenbird48

"The IOC's policy follows the second line of thought and requires that males have low levels of testosterone in order to compete against females. To my knowledge, none of the boys on this site had testosterone within the levels required by the IOC. If they did, they would almost certainly have not performed as well. Because of this, the statistics are not an apples to apples comparison to what competition between males with low testosterone and females would look like. "

but we also know that testosterone suppression makes very little overall difference to performance. In fact I think they found that increased training can counteract any drop in performance, so I think one lot of apples is probably as good as the other.

The quote is from the same website as the red and green graphs, I'm sure if what you say about testosterone suppression was "known" it would have been at the top of the page

Trans people have been allowed to compete in the Olympics since 2004, and none have yet qualified, let alone won anything. The closest was Chris Mosier, a trans man.

[Helmetbymidnight]

All women's sports should be open to men who identify as women because no trans person has won the Olympics yet.



They think this makes sense.

[DialSquare]

Caitlyn Jenner won the Olympics so they can't even get that statement right.

[Helmetbymidnight]

[Whatsnewpussyhat]

They don't give explanations, only abuse, because their is no logic, common sense or facts to argue their case, so it simply becomes, "shut up you big meanie" then the obligatory flounce and block.

[Babdoc]

Have they explained how they think lowering testosterone can in any way at all shrink the shoulder girdle, lower the cardiac output, reduce the lung capacity, shorten the femurs, widen the pelvis, lower the centre of gravity, remove the fast twitch muscle fibres and reduce the oxygen carrying capacity of a male athlete, to enable him to compete fairly against women? Because I’m a doctor and I’d love to see their evidence!

[ValancyRedfern]

Good for you OP. My experience on FB is that you probably won't persuade the person you're debating with, but there are a lot of people reading and being quietly convinced. I have had so many private messages of people agreeing with me or asking to discuss, then later thehly build the confidence to join in the debates as well. The more we speak the more we give others the confidence to do the same.

[HermitsLife]

I'm not surprised they don't have an argument. It's ludicrous we even have to entertain these arguments.

Do people genuinely believe there is no physical difference between men and women or is it just a distraction tactic?

[Gcnq]

There is a Swedish study that explicitly proves testosterone suppression makes very little difference to sporting achievement in males.

[Helmetbymidnight]

yeah but there are studies that say if you dont t let trans people play in the sport they fancy then they will get super sad.