The Big Lie - how the WEP was always about gender rather than sex

[Ereshkigalangcleg]

An anonymous blog by a WEP insider hosted on Graham Linehan's website.

"^When the Women’s Equality Party (WEP) was co-founded in March 2015 by author Catherine Mayer and TV presenter Sandi Toksvig at the annual Women of the World festival, held at the Southbank Centre in London, tens of thousands of women rushed to join, feeling for the first time that a political party had been formed that was dedicated to us. After all, we were in the name!

Since then thousands of women have been leaving, feeling let down by a party that was meant to be for women & girls and our rights. But it is a mistake to think that WEP was captured by gender ideology – it was founded on gender ideology. We women will never ‘recapture’ it as it was never ours to begin with.^


https://grahamlinehan.substack.com/p/the-big-lie?r=7vhv8&utmcampaign=post&utmmmedium=email&utmsource=copy

[Ereshkigalangcleg]

Regulars around a few years ago will remember that Mumsnet was a key target audience for the Women's Equality Party and webchats were held with the then leader, Sophie Walker, and the co-founders Sandi Toksvig and Catherine Mayer http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/mumsnetlivee_events/2617026-Webchat-with-Sophie-Walker-leader-of-the-Womens-Equality-Party-and-London-Mayor-candidate-Tuesday-19-April-at-noon

[Ereshkigalangcleg]

https://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/mumsnetlivee_events/2420805-Webchat-with-Sandi-Toksvig-co-founder-of-the-Womens-Equality-Party-FRIDAY-10-July-1pm

[Ereshkigalangcleg]

https://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/mumsnetlivee_events/2890099-Webchat-with-Catherine-Mayer-author-and-co-founder-of-the-Womens-Equality-Party-Thursday-30-March-1-2pm

[gardenbird48]

wow - that's so rubbish! We should get them under the trade descriptions act - Women's Equality Party - nothing could be further from the truth!!

[Ereshkigalangcleg]

Women on Mumsnet were sceptical from the start! It's worth reading the webchats.

[thinkingaboutLangCleg]

That's a shock. I wonder why they did that? No time to read the webchats now, but I’ll save them for later.

[Ereshkigalangcleg]

Have some wine on hand, or at least a cup of tea!

[FindTheTruth]

Wow, Catherine Mayer

Thanks OP

the party’s first policy document published in October 2015 stated “We also recognise that the binary words “woman” and “man” do not reflect the gender experience of everyone, and support the right of all to define their sex or gender or to reject gendered divisions as they choose.”

[FindTheTruth]

Yes. literally the opposite of women's equality. wish I'd known before paying membership back then 🙄

[Ereshkigalangcleg]

We also recognise that the binary words “woman” and “man” do not reflect the gender experience of everyone, and support the right of all to define their sex or gender or to reject gendered divisions as they choose.

I'm going to reread all the webchats to see how clearly this came out. As I remember Sandi Toksvig and Sophie Walker being quite evasive.

[wellbehavedwomen]

From that webchat, from a Mumsnetter whose name I don't recognise:

I increasingly hear people talk about feminism as 'inclusive/for everyone/about equality for everyone. It really isn't! It's about liberation of women from patriarchal power structures.

The insistence now that feminism is about 'empowerment' and 'choice' is based on a very Capitalist/Neo-liberal axis and it seems to me to be based on the ideas of us as consumers than about any real desire to see women rise up. So many women genuinely believe that equality has been achieved because they themselves are okay. In the meantime, we are in the middle of the biggest global rollback of women's rights in around 30 years. The portrayal of feminism as a fluffy cool 'club' that everyone can join seems to me to be a deliberate attempt to dilute it's power and misdirect the focus away from women, by persuading them that everyone is more oppressed than they are. In the meantime, hey! Look at that great lipstick!

Precisely. Women are being gaslighted, and the language that exists, and that we need, to defend our own interests is being morphed into new definitions that does the very reverse. Feminism, woman, even female - they are being massaged into new terms that do not allow women any way to define who we are, and how we can improve our situation. Feminism is now worthless unless women are centring all other groups, and promoting individualism. Women and even female are being erased as sex class descriptors. And the likes of Owen Jones positively salivate at the opportunity to grandstand and posture over their own nobility, while allowing their base misogyny free rein.

Thanks for sharing that webchat, and this information. It's depressing, but unsurprising.

[McDuffy]

I should've dug into it more before paying membership. I'm very irritated by it though; I live in an area where they fielded candidates in an election!

[Datun]

In their manifesto they say they accept the right of all to define their sex.

And not three lines below claim that women are the biggest single group subject to disadvantage, discrimination and oppression!

I run out of words to use for this crap. "Sex doesn't exist, but women are oppressed because of it".

How do they bloody get out of bed in the morning??

[EvenSupposing]

It is such a let down. I think IIRC Sophie Walker has been more able to speak since she stepped down from.the leadership and has said a couple of GC things on Twitter? The irony of which is severely impeding my ability to type.

One fucking job Sophie, just one.

[FindTheTruth]

I run out of words to use for this crap. "Sex doesn't exist, but women are oppressed because of it"

spot on quickness

[OhHolyJesus]

The portrayal of feminism as a fluffy cool 'club' that everyone can join seems to me to be a deliberate attempt to dilute it's power and misdirect the focus away from women, by persuading them that everyone is more oppressed than they are.

This. Fuck your cool club and the get-your tits-out-for-the-lads 'feminism'.

And yes Datun

How do they bloody get out of bed in the morning??

How do they live with themselves?

I briefly looked at WEP about a year ago as they allow you to be a member with them and another mainstream party as they recognise the reality of the WEP never really being a threat to the two party system. At least that's what I took it to mean.

We need WEP v2. The Woman Party. Adult Human Female Rights party that Recognises Sex and Reality. Somebody do this please? Rosie Duffield? Someone? Anyone?!

[porridgecake]

What a terrible betrayal.

[EvenSupposing]

I see that in answer to 'can we define what a woman is' Catherine said -

There's a lot of confusion around definitions -- which is one reason I devote a whole chapter of the book to sex and gender (and frankly these issues would easily fill whole books). One of the things I've tried to do with my book is to try to find a path through some of the most divisive issues in feminism in a way that I hope fosters understanding and ways to debate without heat. It's easier for me to do this on some issues than others because I've had to pick my way through and where the answers remain unclear to me, I say so.

So, no. Talk about talking yourself out of a job.

[EmpressJKRowlingSpartacus]

Before the webchats there was www.mumsnet.com/Talk/guest_posts/2502963-Guest-post-Sandi-Toksvig-The-time-is-right-for-the-Womens-Equality-Party?pg=1.

WEP had just tweeted their support for Tara Hudson’s bid to be moved to a female prison. MNers, who were just starting to get worried about all this, replied to Sandi Toksvig’s plug for the WEP with questions that were ignored.

Eventually Sophie Walker appeared on the thread, pledged WEP’s support for gender over sex & went away again. And the WEP-MN relationship went downhill from there....

[Ereshkigalangcleg]

Oh thanks Empress, I'd forgotten that one!

[Datun]

@EvenSupposing

I see that in answer to 'can we define what a woman is' Catherine said -

There's a lot of confusion around definitions -- which is one reason I devote a whole chapter of the book to sex and gender (and frankly these issues would easily fill whole books). One of the things I've tried to do with my book is to try to find a path through some of the most divisive issues in feminism in a way that I hope fosters understanding and ways to debate without heat. It's easier for me to do this on some issues than others because I've had to pick my way through and where the answers remain unclear to me, I say so.

So, no. Talk about talking yourself out of a job.

Oh Godddd.

How many bloody lines does she need to say um, no.

I was reading that thinking go on, go on...but your conclusion at the end is perfect.

It's so monumentally stupid. I don't know how these people have got the nerve to put pen to paper to express this crushing irrationality.

[EmpressJKRowlingSpartacus]

@Ereshkigalangcleg

Oh thanks Empress, I'd forgotten that one!

No problem, it’s more or less burned on my brain!

[Ereshkigalangcleg]

Right, going to start with the guest post and read through them all in chronological order. I may be some time!

[EvenSupposing]

I suppose it might make more sense that you were unable to define 'women' if you weren't in the leadership of an organisation that literally has that word in its name. Or, y'know, if you were a toddler?

A chapter of her book devoted to this topic. What does it say I wonder? 🤔

[FindTheTruth]

'without heat'.... is this where Nandy et al 'less heat more light' came from?