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Graham Linehan's speech. Worth sharing.

(56 Posts)
marvellousnightforamooncup Mon 02-Dec-19 09:12:04

TheShoesa Mon 02-Dec-19 09:30:31

Thanks for sharing. A quote, if I may.

Meanwhile, Rachel McKinnon, a male who has recently changed his name to Veronica—or as I like to call him, Ron

marvellousnightforamooncup Mon 02-Dec-19 09:38:17

I know. I find it so refreshing to read an eloquent, witty article by someone not afraid to be criticised for stating the bleedin' obvious.

PetraDelphiki Mon 02-Dec-19 09:42:56

Clicky link I hope

marvellousnightforamooncup Mon 02-Dec-19 09:47:15

Sorry, I did t realise it wasn't clicky. Thanks Petra.

RoyalCorgi Mon 02-Dec-19 10:03:01

Great piece.

Cuntysnark Mon 02-Dec-19 10:09:39

Just read that out in its entirety to Mr Cuntysnark. Our agreement is that it’s s faultless piece of prose.

Joisanofthedales Mon 02-Dec-19 10:13:16

Great article

Floisme Mon 02-Dec-19 10:18:19

That's so good. Thank you op and thank you Glinner.

NellieEllie Mon 02-Dec-19 10:21:10

Yes, great article. Conveys the right mix of robust sanity and disbelief at the bizarre insanity,

loserssaywhat Mon 02-Dec-19 10:34:15

Thanks for sharing that op. It's heartening to hear people talking about these issue.

Stooshie8 Mon 02-Dec-19 10:36:03

Yes, it's heartening to hear the truth for once.

Manderleyagain Mon 02-Dec-19 10:52:24

Does anyone know what the event was?

HollowTalk Mon 02-Dec-19 11:07:34

It's such a good article. I have a daughter who's 30 and I think she's a bit of a handmaiden - this isn't a topic we discuss but she did tell me I didn't understand it grin One day I will show it to her - god knows when that'll be, though.

Imnobody4 Mon 02-Dec-19 11:09:52

Think it was a conference by Index of Censorship, must be the last organisation standing. Jodie Ginsberg the CEO wrote something for the Fair Cop trial if I remember rightly.

AutumnRose1 Mon 02-Dec-19 11:14:16

well, he's very honest in saying that he thought the Right were truth deniers....but I was quite puzzled by that to be honest.

I'm not a huge fan of how Left and Right are established......too much "put this value/flaw in this box" going on, whereas it's all just ...humanity.

PotteryWheel Mon 02-Dec-19 11:14:27

Go Graham.

RubyViolet Mon 02-Dec-19 11:21:47

Thanks, this is definitely worth sharing. Cheers to Graham.

Redshoeblueshoe Mon 02-Dec-19 11:23:46

Thanks Glinner

Imnobody4 Mon 02-Dec-19 11:32:29

Sorry , for accuracy, it was the Comedy and Free Speech event!

GrumpyMiddleAgedWoman Mon 02-Dec-19 11:35:29

Great article. Lucid and clear and witty.

Cocolapew Mon 02-Dec-19 11:45:04

Thanks for sharing

marvellousnightforamooncup Mon 02-Dec-19 11:56:19

He said on Twitter it was an Index on Censorship talk.

SheeshElection Mon 02-Dec-19 12:08:51

Winced a bit at the use of the word ‘lezzer’ though to describe Martina Navratilova? Going for the laughs I guess as this was a speech. Wish he hadn’t though.

SheeshElection Mon 02-Dec-19 12:09:31

But a great speech otherwise.

AFairlyHardAvocado Mon 02-Dec-19 12:23:02

Have googled but can't seem to find info online - does anyone know reliably if the Oxford toilet sign is real or a clever piece of satire. I pray to god the latter. Otherwise we have in black and white that women have less right to a safe space than anyone else.

Delurkernomore Mon 02-Dec-19 12:45:40

@AFairlyHardAvocado I’ve joined just to post this, long time lurker. Sadly, they are real, they were in the saïd business institute ladies last March anyway. I wasn’t brave enough to ask my male colleagues if they were also present in the mens. I couldn’t believe it when I saw it.

MatildeHidalgo Mon 02-Dec-19 12:54:15

But “her testicles “is correct, at least under current press guidelines. “Her testicles” is the phrase newspapers had to use when reporting the story of Jessica Yanniv and his poor unwaxed landing carriage


AFairlyHardAvocado Mon 02-Dec-19 13:14:25

Thanks @Delurkernomore

Fuck me. I actually cannot believe it. It reads like a pisstake from someone who has peaked.

How have people at one of the most prestigious institutions in the world write such woman hating shit and (I assume) react with woke, worthy shock when people are angry about this.

Literally telling women that if they are frightened they must not "challenge" but instead "respect, respect" and "protect".


The column on the right mentions respect twice. The column on the left regarding women being uncomfortable? No respect necessary.

I am angry every day now. I've worked my arse off to set up and run a successful business in a male dominated field. And shit like this means if I'm scared in a toilet I need to be a good girl and not challenge something to alleviated my dear.

I hate myself for saying this but it makes me look back at all the sacrifices I've made, all the glass ceilings I've had to break and think what was the fucking point as I haven't helped contribute to world where women and girls are empowered to believe they are equal.

AFairlyHardAvocado Mon 02-Dec-19 13:15:16

*to alleviate my fear

KittiesInsane Mon 02-Dec-19 14:33:00

I haven't seen that particular sign but I can vouch for the one in a university that says 'Male and non-binary' on one set of doors and 'Female and non-binary' on the other set -- so, no guarantee of a single-sex loo at all.

It's possible that this mean that 'female non-binary' students will all happily continue to use the Ladies, and pink-haired boys will all go in the men's, while feeling validated and modern about it. Maybe.

Ereshkigal Mon 02-Dec-19 15:58:51

I know, that particular sign gives me the utter rage. Expecting women not to react at all when their boundaries are violated is really oppressive and controlling.

Ereshkigal Mon 02-Dec-19 16:01:24

Another example: a civil service training session where a supposedly real example used is of a woman walking into toilets, seeing an MTF trans person and walking straight out again. Not allowed.

NotTonightJosepheen Mon 02-Dec-19 17:15:05

Winced a bit at the use of the word ‘lezzer’ though to describe Martina Navratilova?

Me too.

Otherwise, a great speech.

AFairlyHardAvocado Mon 02-Dec-19 17:36:47

Fucking hell @Ereshkigal that's unbelievable!!! Thank you for sharing it's so important that this madness is shared in public forums.

So just to be clear:

If someone enters a toilet and as a woman I feel uncomfortable, I am not allowed to challenge them or "make them feel uncomfortable". I am also not allowed to remove myself from the situation.

I cannot understand how it has come to this. All that hard work inspirational women and girls have gone through to fight for equal rights. All that sacrifice. All that pain.

And now I'm not allowed to walk away if I'm uncomfortable. They'd rather I was in what used to be MY safe space, feeling scared and threatened.

ThePonderer Mon 02-Dec-19 19:14:48

Another notable thing about that sign: it says 'Everyone has every right to be here'.

I had to show ID to access the building where I saw that sign, and be met at reception by my contact there.

They don't just let everybody into the building, and they certainly don't just let everybody who applies into Oxford University. They are quite happy to exclude people for all kinds of reasons - some fairer than others - but women being uncomfortable isn't one of them.

Clymene Mon 02-Dec-19 19:24:08

The enthusiasm with which TRAs throw women's rights down the river still amazes me. Scratch the surface, find a misogynist I guess

Clymene Mon 02-Dec-19 19:28:17

And weirdly we are in a situation where the left is way, way more authoritarian that the right.

As someone pointed out on another thread, Thatcherite identity politics have been enthusiastically embraced by the left who are too young to remember her dismantling of society.

The kids have been hoodwinked and they won't realise it until it's too late

Milanimilani Tue 03-Dec-19 06:28:42

Look up the horseshoe theory of politics if you are wondering why the left is more authoritarian. Or if you can’t be bothered, think of Stalinism, Maoism, Cuba...

NonnyMouse1337 Tue 03-Dec-19 06:45:22

Yes, the left are just as capable of authoritarianism as the right.
Far right and far left have a lot in common because the more extreme your ideology, the more you require authoritarian tactics to get people to accept your ideas and suppress dissent and criticism.

Any kind of ideology taken to its extreme will generate similar methods for controlling people under it. Humans are not that different from each other once you strip away political and religious leanings. We are influenced in the same way. The left isn't the paragon of virtue it likes to paint itself.

It is the duty of the moderates, the ones in the middle, to reign in the extremist ends of the political spectrum and reject those who promise utopia under their vision of far left or far right ideologies.

Savingforarainyday Tue 03-Dec-19 07:03:24

Brilliant article

teawamutu Tue 03-Dec-19 07:14:46

Bloody hell it's good. Thank you mooncup and Glinner.

ChattyLion Tue 03-Dec-19 08:13:32

Thank you Glinner great speech. It’s not about privacy, dignity for women (only) it’s also about our physical safety. And about not having our language for ourselves coerced.

ThePurported Tue 03-Dec-19 08:18:50

How the hell did we get here??

"As I often say to my long-suffering wife, it’s impossible for me to write comedy when a man with a beard here in the UK—just a normal forty something bloke with a beard and eyeshadow—goes into schools, as a representative of Stonewall, and tells a bunch of puzzled kids that he’s a lesbian."

Magdalen Berns on the individual in question 'transplaining fixing cars to women':

ChattyLion Tue 03-Dec-19 09:25:20

flowers Magdalen

Trewser Tue 03-Dec-19 09:31:31

That Magdelene Burns video is hilarious. She was amazing.

NotTonightJosepheen Tue 03-Dec-19 12:08:12

She was. grin

marvellousnightforamooncup Tue 03-Dec-19 19:23:36

I've been educating Mr Marvellous with this article. His jaw was on the floor. I've been reading mumsnet for years and quietly seething, seems I've forgotten to share with him. I think Linehan sums it up quite well.

marvellousnightforamooncup Tue 03-Dec-19 19:28:57

That video is great.

Datun Tue 03-Dec-19 20:12:30

I like that he's coming at this from the point of view of a comedy writer.

He's quite right, your comedy suffers, if reality becomes ridiculous. And ludicrous situations become unsayable or you are compelled to take them seriously.

It is insane. I'm hoping the tide is turning. I feel as though it is.

Ereshkigal Tue 03-Dec-19 20:18:30

Yes, I have no respect whatsoever for comedians who don't see the absurdity of the trans agenda.

MarieIVanArkleStinks Tue 03-Dec-19 21:30:46

Re. the toilet wall sign. It would be interesting to know if there's an identical sign in the men's. If not, the women's one should be unceremonially removed and dumped in there instead.

I don't belong to the biological sex which crime statistics overwhelmingly indicate are responsible for harming other people. Yet protecting others from harm is deemed women's collected burden. It's rank, institutional, deeply ideological and socially-ingrained misogyny, of the kind that thinks the sky will fall in if responsibility is placed firmly back with the demographic that owns it in the first place.

As far as I'm concerned, the owners of said instructional loo facilities can take their diktat and piss it up a rope. What about protecting ME and other women from harm: a radical concept they've conveniently neglected to consider?

DodoPatrol Tue 03-Dec-19 22:30:31

Even if no transwoman ever committed any crime, that sign would be wrongheaded.

Trans women are at most 0.5% of the population, but sex offenders are two a penny. If you see an obvious bloke in the ladies, the odds are surely higher that it’s a dodgy bloke than a transwoman.

AutumnRose1 Wed 04-Dec-19 14:23:28

I’ve seen similar to the Oxford toilet sign in a few places.

Ereshkigal Wed 04-Dec-19 16:07:56

It's a dominance display.

CranberriesChoccy Wed 04-Dec-19 21:23:49

It reinforces the stereotype that women should always be kind, gentle, inclusive, but most of all submissive. Don't make the man feel uncomfortable, whatever you do! But it makes women uncomfortable? Oh that's ok then. Fuck that. It's the men who need this tolerance training.

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