Skip to main content
Skip to main navigation
Skip to talk navigation

Active discussions

Please or to access all these features

Add post

Watch this thread

Save thread

Start a new thread

Flip thread

Hide thread

My feed

Saved Active Unanswered threads

Getting started FAQ's

Unanswered threads Acronyms Talk guidelines

Hide shortcut buttons

Talk

Flip

1 2 3 4

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Big change in Germany's prostitution law: Nordic Model gets parliamentary majority

83 replies

Lamahaha · 10/09/2019 09:29

I can't find a link right now (I'm sitting in an airport!) But I just read this Facebook post and thought I'd share some of it.

"Yesterday was so unreal. And it took me some hours to realize I am NOT dreaming. After years of fighting against windmills for the first time a parliamentary majority for the implementation of the “Nordic Model” in Germany became thinkable: The German CDU came out with a statement in favor of following the recommendation of the European Parliament, referring to corresponding “considerations of the Social Democrat Party” to do so.

I mean we are not talking about ANY country, but the country where prostitution is so deeply engrained into the national identity. And that’s not all: How weird it feels, when they quote your feminist stances and make it their own. When they make clear they understood that there is a wrong distinction between human trafficking/forced prostitution on the one hand and so called “self-determined voluntary” prostitution on the other – and say they want a better society for all… "

I think it's pretty huge! Perhaps someone else can find links, too fiddly on phone!

Subject:
Prostitution laws change in Germany due to efforts by feminists

Message:
I can't find a link right now (I'm sitting in an airport!) But I just read this Facebook post and thought I'd share some of it.

"Yesterday was so unreal. And it took me some hours to realize I am NOT dreaming. After years of fighting against windmills for the first time a parliamentary majority for the implementation of the “Nordic Model” in Germany became thinkable: The German CDU came out with a statement in favor of following the recommendation of the European Parliament, referring to corresponding “considerations of the Social Democrat Party” to do so.

I mean we are not talking about ANY country, but the country where prostitution is so deeply engrained into the national identity. And that’s not all: How weird it feels, when they quote your feminist stances and make it their own. When they make clear they understood that there is a wrong distinction between human trafficking/forced prostitution on the one hand and so called “self-determined voluntary” prostitution on the other – and say they want a better society for all… "

I think it's pretty huge! Perhaps someone else can find links, too fiddly on phone!

Back to top

OP posts:

Report

Lamahaha · 10/09/2019 09:31

Sorry, I was too excited and posted too soon. the Nordic Model has become thinkable, it isn't through yet.

OP posts:

BarbaraStrozzi · 10/09/2019 09:32

Great news if they follow through - I'll have a look at some of the German newspapers and see if it's reported there

Oldstyle · 10/09/2019 09:33

Wow! Hope this is true. I'll go and have a hunt.

WrathoSWhlttIeKIop · 10/09/2019 09:38

I will be watching this closely.

If the Nordic model is going to happen in Germany, we have to be aware there might be a negative effect in the UK.

No country wants to end up as the brothel dustbin.

Chickenish · 10/09/2019 12:59

Does this mean that all those huge brothels where women are forced to sell their bodies will soon close?

DuMondeB · 10/09/2019 13:45

Fingers crossed!

stealthsquirrelnutkin · 10/09/2019 14:20

If this comes to pass it will go some way towards compensating for the disgrace of the Quisling Ruth Hunt being rubber stamped for a seat in the house of Lords for her disservices to women, children and lesbians.

WrathoSWhlttIeKIop · 10/09/2019 14:22

But where will they all go?

That's what worries me.

WrathoSWhlttIeKIop · 10/09/2019 14:27

Sorry I'm sounding like a nimby here.

I fully support the Nordic Model being rolled out in Germany.

Its the seemingly insatiable demand that worries me.

Rocaille · 10/09/2019 15:06

It's so nice to come on to FWR and hear some good news for a change.

Let's hope they follow through.

XXcstatic · 10/09/2019 15:53

Its the seemingly insatiable demand that worries me

Though the percentage of men who use prostituted women does vary considerably from country to country, according to anonymous surveys (so there's some hope the men are telling the truth). Presumably this is partly influenced by social acceptability. Hopefully, if this law goes through in Germany, that will be a clear sign that using prostitutes is not longer acceptable to society as a whole and will reduce demand.

2Rebecca · 10/09/2019 16:10

I think if it goes through in Germany this will mean "best practice" "right side of history" for prostitution can no longer be said to be legalising and normalising it. Hopefully the tide is turning. I don't understand how any woman can support the concept of prostitution. Let the creepy men buy sex dolls, keep their hands off real women.

WrathoSWhlttIeKIop · 10/09/2019 17:41

Try looking at the edits behind the sex worker wikipage.

John has been busy.
Globally

Chickenish · 10/09/2019 18:27

Who is John?

MargueritaBlue · 10/09/2019 18:49

Presumably this is partly influenced by social acceptability

I don't understand why there is any social acceptability. I really don't.

Goosefoot · 10/09/2019 21:48

Presumably this is partly influenced by social acceptability.

People seem to forget, when they argue for legalisation, that this really does affect people's behaviour, and the way they think about things. Even if there will always be some people who pay for sex, or smoke mj, or buy things on the black market, it does not follow that if those things are considered ok, only the same people will do them.

EmpressLesbianInChair · 10/09/2019 21:51

I hope Leeds Council’s paying attention.

Fraggling · 10/09/2019 21:58

Fingers crossed here, thanks for posting.

There was a study in, i think, scotland a few years ago that essentially revealed that a lot of punters are 'will if i can get away with it' types, and if they thought there would be negative consequences they wouldn't bother.

There's definitely a social acceptability thing, i mean obviously. If it's seen as normal and fine, more people do it.

Making it illegal to pay to sex removes a large tranche of casual punters, decreases demand. This is a good thing. In my opinion.

MsMelanie · 10/09/2019 22:15

I don’t support the Nordic model. Violence against sex workers has increased under this model as the ladies can no longer screen clients they take greater risks.

If you listen to what sex workers really want they are calling for decriminalisation of sex work not legalisation. There are so many prominent supporters of this model that discuss what is best for sex workers without even speaking to the sex workers themselves.

Sex workers must be distinguished from sex trafficked women. One makes a choice to do that kind of work whereas the other are forced.

I do not believe that women who enter sex work of their own violation should have their bodies policed. It’s their body, their choice.

Fraggling · 10/09/2019 22:17

You need to think about why decrim is pushed for and not legalisation.

MargueritaBlue · 10/09/2019 22:24

Violence against sex workers has increased under this model as the ladies can no longer screen clients they take greater risks

I'm very sceptical about the veracity of this statement.

MsMelanie · 10/09/2019 22:25

Well in most of the UK it’s already legal. The issue is that women cannot legally work together. What other job would prohibit you from working in a safer environment!

Fraggling · 10/09/2019 22:26

The ladies is an is odd turn of phrase for fwr.

Just mentioning.

CharlieParley · 10/09/2019 22:28

There is no social acceptability for prostitution in Germany. Large numbers of people, both male and female, are upset with the current laws and especially how they worked out in practice.

Claims of how many men (percentagewise) are punters are many, actual proof and empirical data is extremely scarce. One rare scientific study put it at 8% of men recently, the highest I've seen was 18% but that was published 25 years ago and the data was even older.

Worldwide, the percentage of men who buy sex has been decreasing steadily, but even if one assumes that 18% of German men were a likely maximum even today, that leaves 82% of men who do not.

Whether it is 82% or 92% of men, the fact is that the vast majority of men in Germany (and elsewhere) are not punters. The assumption that prostitution in Germany is socially acceptable just because lawmakers decriminalized it is unfounded. The stigma is as strong as it has always been and public opinion has worsened because of the sheer horror people feel at the consequences of the law change.

Fraggling · 10/09/2019 22:29

Yes it is legal.
We fall somewhere in the middle.
It's legal to buy and sell sex. But brothels are illegal.

If you want it safe then you want it legalised. And to meet health and safety laws etc.

(although there's one on a high street near me that is totally blatant).

Flip

1 2 3 4

Please create an account

To comment on this thread you need to create a Mumsnet account.