Does he have misogynistic tendencies?

[ApplesAndPearsStairs]

I wonder if you can help me. I know a man who I think is wonderful in every way except I have a fear that he may have some misogynistic views. He doesn't say anything outright exactly but there are some red flags. For example, when he swears he occasionally uses the words wh*re and b!tch which none of my male friends would ever do. He has commented on a woman's outfit (to me) and said it was inappropriate. To be fair it was but still.

We have great chats and I'm looking for some ideas of topics that might help me get to the bottom of this. For example I thought about asking him his views on whether a woman's sexual past should be looked at in rape cases. Can you think of other questions that will help me find out if he's a misogynist? He's intelligent and will be guarded so the questions need to be relatively subtle. Thanks.

[wrongsideofhistorymyarse]

If he's using whore and bitch to describe women he's a misogynist.

[ApplesAndPearsStairs]

He wasn't exactly describing them that way he was swearing and used those words. But I see what you're saying.

[ApplesAndPearsStairs]

If I had challenged him on it, I suspect he'd have said that it's the same as swearing about a man and using the word b@stard.

[OverTheHedgeSammy]

It's nothing like bastard!

[ApplesAndPearsStairs]

I agree but he might disagree. What else can I ask him to get to the bottom of this?

[LassWiADelicateAir]

He has commented on a woman's outfit (to me) and said it was inappropriate. To be fair it was but still

Was she going hill- walking in a ball gown and high heels? Or at a wedding wearing jeans and trainers? Both of those might legitimately be described as "inappropriate" but I'm guessing that isn't what you meant.

I can't think of many circumstances outside of a performance of Tis Pity She's a Whore where it would be appopriate to call a woman a whore (possibly the word appears also in Restoration drama and I can't remember if it is used in The Beggars' Opera- I'll let them pass too)

"Bitch" is not acceptable as far as I'm concerned- although many posters on MN seem to think it is.

[ApplesAndPearsStairs]

LassWiADelicateAir, she was at some after work drinks but she had got changed and was wearing a bra top with an open jacket. It did look inappropriate but I didn't like that he said it was.

[ApplesAndPearsStairs]

Yeah, it's just totally out of my experience to meet men who use the words bitch and whore. I will challenge him on it but I know he's going to be really shocked and will think I'm making an issue out of nothing.

[LassWiADelicateAir]

Basically he's a creep and a nasty piece of work.

[ApplesAndPearsStairs]

Thanks BobTheDuvet. Do you mean say no to him sexually or no about anything?

[Squall]

Can I just ask why it is acceptable for you to say an outfit is inappropriate but not a man? Not stirring but I am minded of the parable about the splinter in someone elses eye vs a plank in yours?
Only you can tell what this man is like. I’m just wondering why you need us to come up with some trick to catch him?

[ApplesAndPearsStairs]

Squall I thought the outfit was inappropriate in my head but I didn't vocalise it because she can wear whatever she wants. He did vocalise it to me though.

I don't want to trick him. I want to understand him better.

[ApplesAndPearsStairs]

Okay, I will try that. I don't think I've ever said no to him about anything!!

[YepImafraidIchangeditagain]

Can I just ask why it is acceptable for you to say an outfit is inappropriate but not a man? Not stirring but I am minded of the parable about the splinter in someone elses eye vs a plank in yours?
Only you can tell what this man is like. I’m just wondering why you need us to come up with some trick to catch him?*

Exactly what I wanted to say but she said it better.

[Iused2BanOptimist]

There's a thread somewhere about saying No to a man as a test. I sent it to my DD and her friend.

[Iused2BanOptimist]

Saying no to menwww.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3322589-Saying-no-to-men

[Funkyfunkybeat12]

So it’s fine for you to think something misogynistic but vocalising crosses the line?
To be fair, lots of outfits are inappropriate in different settings. That goes for whether it’s a woman wearing something or a man. People seem to have a notion that feminism equals that women can wear precisely what they like and nobody can criticise it. Rubbish. I would say someone wearing a very low-cut top in a courtroom is inappropriate. Same if a man is wearing eg shorts in the same setting. There are standards of dress and modesty depending on what situation you’re in and who you are with. It’s stupid to pretend otherwise or to say that only women’s clothes are immune from scrutiny.

So, no, I don’t think that alone makes him a misogynist. The whore thing, yes, that’s a misogynistic insult. Bitch not so much- it’s common parlance for many people. It’s less about the actual word and more about the intent behind it as well.

Ask about sexual history, sure, but maybe if you’re trying to secretly catch your friend out, you should cool the friendship instead.

[LangCleg]

Say no to him, see how he reacts. That should tell you all you need to know.

This. Doesn't have to be about anything important - what to have for dinner, watching a TV drama instead of the football, whether to go to the pub or stay in. If he won't accept a no, bin him. And not accepting a no doesn't just mean throwing a tantrum, it also means always trying to wheedle you out of it.

[ApplesAndPearsStairs]

Interesting. I will definitely try this.

And I'll say again, I'm not trying to catch him out. I really really like him. I just want to be careful which I think is sensible.

[Funkyfunkybeat12]

It’s surely the thinking it that is misogynistic? I could be racist af even if I never utter any of it in public and keep it in my private thoughts. The important point is that I have negative feelings about other races, whether or not I manage to keep these under wraps? If the OP (who admits she agreed with her friend) had said ‘yeah I agree’ instead of just thinking it, would that really change matters so much? Maybe it would.

Anyway, let us know what happens when you say no to him.

[ApplesAndPearsStairs]

But she was doing the equivalent of wearing shorts in a court room. It was inappropriate dress. But I was just concerned after the 'whore' and 'bitch' swearing that this could be part of a bigger misogynistic picture from him.

I'm not sure what I can say no about as he's a pretty easygoing and reasonable guy but I will do so and let you know.

Part of the 'no' thing could be tricky as we used to work together until very recently and he was more senior than me so he did used to ask me to do things for him.