Difference Between Sex and Gender?

[OhFFSDH]

This has probably been done to death but I'm trying to explain this to DH and hitting a brick wall. He thinks they are the same. Can anyone provide me with a good source or journal papers where this discusses this in detail?

I have given him a dictionary and he has just looked at different variations in meaning for gender to prove his point when I have studied psychology and sociology and have been taught differently. My books are in storage so I can't even show him what I mean.

[UpstartCrow]

Sex is the scientific description.
Gender is the way we behave according to the expectations of our culture.

Sex;
Humans are a sexually dimorphic species. Females have XX chromosomes, and produce gametes that transfer mitochondrial DNA to the offspring.
Males have XY chromosomes and produce motile gametes that determine the sex of the fetus and do not transfer mitochondrial DNA to the offspring.

Gender;
Girls like pink and are kind.
Boys like blue and are noisy.

[LightofaSilveryMoon]

How would an experienced livestock farmer feel, about advice telling them that a field full of bulls and bullocks is no problem and that their herd really will increase in time, even though it includes only bulls and bullocks?!

[Floorplan]

Gender is a human construct and thus varies with time and place: in some countries men wear what are essentially dresses, in some places women have many necklaces on their elongated necks ie gender varies.

In mammals sex does not vary beyond XX and XY unless there has been a problem of development. Trans people like to use developmental problems as representative examples, but that, sadly, is like saying that polydactyly in an occasional child means mammals don't have 5 digits.

[OhFFSDH]

He has said if a man is born with no male organs is he male or female? If a woman is born with no womb is she not female? I'm so sick of bloody talking about it but he's asked me if these mutations exist how is the biological definition of the term 'sex' black and white. He's being the biggest GF

[LightofaSilveryMoon]

Just cut your losses and ltb?

[theOtherPamAyres]

I'm going to stop using the word 'gender' for a bit. I had a breakthrough when speaking to a couple of acquaintances:

Me: 'Our troubles are over. Soon we'll be able to change sex by filling in a form. We can all be men at the click of a mouse"
Both: "Don't be ridiculous. You can't change sex"
Me: "Yes you can. No operations, no hormones, keep the same clothes - just fill in a form and the government will give you a new birth certificate to prove that you really are a man."
One: It's a joke. I don't believe you.
Me: No joke.

Two people peak-transed by removing the terms that people find so confusing. Result!

[ErrolTheDragon]

Maybe ask him if he thinks someone 'genderfluid' like Pips Bunce actually changes sex several times a week. If not, how can he assert sex= gender?

[R0wantrees]

OhFFSDH this article by Rebecca Riley-Cooper may be of interest .

aeon.co/essays/the-idea-that-gender-is-a-spectrum-is-a-new-gender-prison

Its important, I think, to acknowledge that for a long time, gender was euphemistically instead of sex which has added to the issue.

[R0wantrees]

was used euphemistically should say. Sorry

[thebewilderness]

Just as porn is the theory and rape is the practice, so is male supremacy the theory and gender the practice.

[LaSquirrel]

He has said if a man is born with no male organs is he male or female? If a woman is born with no womb is she not female?

What he is speculating about is intersex (disorders of sexual development). Some conditions happen in utero, others become apparent at puberty. That a small percentage of 'mishaps' happen within human reproduction does NOT mean 'sex is sooo hard to define' - quite the opposite, because missing 'bits' (shall we say) prove that you need a certain configuration in order to be reproductively fertile. It's a binary (female/male) not a 'spectrum'.

But that is intersex, not 'gender' or 'gender identity' or 'gender roles'. (see above, pink for girls, blue for boys, and all the rest of the culturally imposed baggage). Up to and including the ones with the pink label still only getting paid 85% of those with the blue label.

Gender (roles) are a hierarchy (not a binary or spectrum). As women have been relegated to the bottom of that hierarchy, feminists are clearly on a mission to get rid of that system entirely.

[FurryDice]

Sex: look in your pants.

Gender: what people say.

So, the first one is factual and real and verifiable. The second one depends entirely upon thought and words.

Hmm. So I think the first one has most basis in reality.

[PeakPants]

How many men does he know who are born completely without sex organs? My guess is a big fat zero. He might have read about one in a magazine but literally every single male he works with, socialises with, plays sports with etc, etc, etc will have a penis and testicles. Every single member of the England football team has a penis and testicles.

To be honest, if he still doesn't get it, I would ask him whether he is comfortable being as thick as he obviously is. It must cause problems in other areas of life, surely.

[RepeatAfterUs]

I agree with the poster who said about not using the word gender. I only use it now to criticise it's effects and if people use it when they mean sex I try to correct it.

I have had break throughs with lots of men I know by telling them that no one conforms 100% to gender therefore what is the point. I'm currently wearing DH's t shirt so I'm a cross dresser which comes under Stonewall's definition of trans.

I actually think men conform more as it seen as less acceptable for men to be feminine than for women to be "neutral"

[UpstartCrow]

Your DH is not confused between sex and gender; thats why he married you and not a man. He's being pretty nasty.

[Juells]

Your DH is not confused between sex and gender; thats why he married you and not a man.

hahaha

[TellsEveryoneRealFacts]

He knows that he will not be the one to carry any children. That is sex.

He knows how uncomfortable he would feel if a son of his liked dolls and wore dresses to school. That is gender.

[Belindabauer]

Exactly how upstart described it.
Its not that difficult.

[Cooroo]

The article R0wantrees linked to is excellent. Really clear thinking and accessible. I've been sharing it all over.

[LangCleg]

Your DH is not confused between sex and gender; thats why he married you and not a man.

LOL! But exactly.

He's being pretty nasty.

Yes, he is. None so blind as those who won't see.

[OhFFSDH]

Your DH is not confused between sex and gender; thats why he married you and not a man.

I have said this to him and he now suddenly sees my point

FWIW, he wasn't saying sex = gender in the sense that boys will only ever be boys and girls only ever girls and everyone must stick to gender stereotypes. He just doesn't understand the definitions in the sense I do.

I'm going to have a proper read of this article now, I give it a week until the GF brings it up again.

[Laurel543]

Sex is what you are observed to be at birth (female/male girl/boy) and gender is the role (feminine/masculine) assigned to you by society.

Sex is based on biological facts (XX/XY chromosomes, genitalia etc)

Gender is a social construct that varies between cultures. E.g in the UK the social construct for infants is that boys like tractors and are generally more robust, girls like rainbow unicorns and are generally more fragile. There is nothing innate or biological about gender.

I was unsure about the difference between sex and gender for years and tried to avoid using either term wherever possible. Now I can’t see what I was so confused about.

[ShamelesslyPlacemarking]

he's asked me if these mutations exist how is the biological definition of the term 'sex' black and white

It's black and white because sex is about reproduction, and there are only two sexes involved in reproduction. Male and female.

Intersex people or people born with dysfunctional or missing reproductive characteristics aren't a 'third sex'. A legitimate third sex would be one that could somehow contribute to the process of reproduction.

[DonkeySkin]

There is no need whatsoever for feminists to use the word 'gender'. Just use sex roles. 'Sex roles' is crystal clear, whereas 'gender' is hopelessly confusing. (And since gender means sex roles, 'gender roles' is a tautology.)

I'm trying to explain this to DH and hitting a brick wall. He thinks they are the same.

Of course he does. As do most people. Because gender is used interchangeably with sex now, even often in scientific and medical discourse. I bet he would easily grasp the difference between sex and sex roles though.

I'm going to stop using the word 'gender' for a bit. I had a breakthrough when speaking to a couple of acquaintances... Two people peak-transed by removing the terms that people find so confusing. Result!

This whole rollback of women's rights under the guise of 'gender identity' depends on confusing terms. If both sides of the debate were forced to define terms, it wouldn't even be happening, because the 'gender identity' side would be unable to, as we have seen numerous times on this forum where 'TWAW' sloganeers have singularly failed to define 'woman' in any meaningful way when challenged.

The gender identity movement relies on nobody defining terms, and especially on the inherent confusion in the word 'gender', which is used interchangeably as a synonym for sex and sex roles. Thus, they can claim their regressive campaign to abolish the legal and ontological meaning of the former is a progressive program that will free us all from the latter.

Feminists should abandon the hopeless project of trying to explain the difference between sex and 'gender' to people. (There is no difference in common use, when even doctors will now refer to the 'gender' of their patients). And we must stop confusing people further by saying things like 'gender is a social construct'. Most will take that to mean that feminists agree with the bonkers claim that sex is socially constructed.

All feminists should stop using the weasel word 'gender', and instead refer only to sex and sex roles or sex stereotypes. And we must force others to clarify whether they mean 'sex' or 'sex roles' every time they use 'gender'. And watch how much clearer the debate becomes.