Girl Guides policies on girls consent and safeguarding

[Winewinewinegin]

A couple of questions. Latest response says the below:

"We’ve been asked why we don’t simply use exemptions under the law...we welcome all guidance that helps us navigate this complex area. However, as a girl-only organisation Girlguiding does not have the right to exclude trans young people from guiding and nor would we wish to. "

• I would assume as a single sex organisation, guides would remain open to girls identifying as boys. But could legally exclude boys identifying as girls. Is this correct?
  

• What is the policy for adult leaders regarding sleeping, changing, toilets, especially with the girls?
  

• How do DBS checks work with trans volunteers?

[SirVixofVixHall]

Yes, legally they have the right to remain single sex. Also what is that “ as a girl only organisation” ???!???! Surely they don’t think a child can actually become the other sex?

[SirVixofVixHall]

I’m also interested in the policy re adults, I may have misread it but I thought they had stated that they don’t need to tell parents the sex of either other children on residential trips, or adults ? Have I misunderstood that ?

[SirVixofVixHall]

By adults I mean supervising adults.

[HopeAndJoy16]

Surely DBS checks work exactly the same for trans volunteers as non-trans volunteers eg any unspent convictions would be noted on it?!

[Winewinewinegin]

Hope I was wondering if they automatically check prior name too.

[jedenfalls]

Isn’t this the organisation that wants to exclude trans identitying girls?

[HopeAndJoy16]

Yes, you have to give previously used names. I can't remember, but you may have to give ID to show legal name change? I might be wrong about that though.

[stargirl1701]

@agnesbadenpowell would be able to answer these questions.

[Angryresister]

Actually would be Trans volunteers or leaders have a special route to declare their status....ie different from everyone else, but there is no guarantee they will not lie . Just means whoever does the interviews etc will not know, presumably

[Mamaryllis]

It's a separate sensitive DBS process, that I believe the transwoman has to opt into. They don't have to declare their 'dead names' on application.
And yes, GG have changed their status from a sex-segregated organization, to a gender segregated organization. So boys who like girly things are in, and actual real girls who are falling prey to the trans dogma will be managed out, as girl guiding is no longer appropriate for their masculine ways. It's a travesty.
How we are supposed to free girls from gender stereotypes whilst ignoring biological reality and mainstreaming gender stereotyped identities is something that they aren't willing to discuss.
Cultures where girls require single sex spaces will once again depart GG. We spent so long dispelling the nonsense that GG was for white Christian girls. And now we will be right back at the beginning. Except we will be accepting little white Christian boys too. As long as they are sufficiently feminine.

[Winewinewinegin]

Angry - presumably their current name links to any past offences even if they don't secretly submit it?

[Winewinewinegin]

Thanks all by the way.

[Ineedacupofteadesperately]

I'm interested in the question from SirVix above - as I understand it from the articles I've read the GG are saying that if there's a fully intact biological male on a trip, they are not required to tell the parents of biological females on the trip. Is this really, really true?

My second thought if true is - if a pregnancy arises from this policy and the parents of the pregnant girl didn't know about the presence of fully functioning penises at the trip, then are the GG liable for child support for the baby? Because in my opinion they should be. Fine if they want to allow transgirls but to NOT TELL the parents of the other girls? Surely this is a basic fail of safeguarding.

[LiquoriceTea]

What do scouts do (I'm considering moving my girls). Do they segregate by sex on trips etc or do they allow gender segregation too?

[LangCleg]

I'm interested in the question from SirVix above - as I understand it from the articles I've read the GG are saying that if there's a fully intact biological male on a trip, they are not required to tell the parents of biological females on the trip. Is this really, really true?

It's really, really true that they are not going to tell parents.

It's also really, really true that they are not going to tell parents if their teenage daughter is going to be sharing overnight accommodation with a teenage boy (complete with penis) who identifies as a girl.

Whether or not the reading of equality law as supplied to them by trans lobbyists in this instance is really, really accurate is another matter altogether...

[Wombman]

That's a good point Liquoricetea: what do the scouts do?

[Winewinewinegin]

The oddest thing about the guides policy is that they seemed to have swallowed the idea that having a policy that allows them to secretly put people's children (girls) in mixed sex showers and overnight accommodation is progressive. And that raising questions about it as a parent or leader is somehow disappointing, discriminatory, against equal rights or in some way transphobic. See this statement for example:

www.girlguiding.org.uk/what-we-do/our-stories-and-news/news/coverage-of-equality-diversity-policy/

That is a big red flag for me about the political climate around safeguarding for women and girls generally. Here is a category that any male dysphoria or not could self-select into based on his say so. And on the basis of his say so is currently allowing secret entry into girls showers and sleeping areas. But questioning the sexual safety of the girl's involved seems to be being seen as discriminatory.

This has to shift, across the board.

[Winewinewinegin]

The FairPlay for women summary is good on this: fairplayforwomen.com/facts_not_fairytales/

I actually feel really cross that guides are suggesting anyone who cares about girls boundaries think trans people are inherently dangerous. This is certainly not what I or most posters here think.

[Ineedacupofteadesperately]

Thanks. I could hardly believe what I was reading. It is so disturbing. SO disturbing.

I have nothing against transpeople, but anyone who would go on a trip KNOWING that their status is being kept secret from people who have a legitimate reason to know. KNOWING that their presence might not be consented to if known. Big, huge red flag. There also seems to be the blanket assumption that no-one would pretend to be trans (without surgery naturally) to have this secret, non-consensual access to young girls. Hello, Rochdale, Telford anyone?

It is so depressing that this can be going on - the safeguarding implications are huge and the only conclusion I can draw is that girls in general are being thrown under the bus to accommodate the feelings of a few biological males.

Do the GG not get that lying by omission is still LYING to parents?! Parents who are not tuned into the trans agenda will be oblivious (until their daughter comes home pregnant of course).

[Winewinewinegin]

Whether or not the reading of equality law as supplied to them by trans lobbyists in this instance is really, really accurate is another matter altogether...

Frankly if it is true women need to be lobbying for a change in the law!

[Winewinewinegin]

The risk of bad intentions or issues might be small, but it is surely the girl's and parents decision. And sets the boundaries and expectations around girls choices and parents being informed in the wrong place.

[KittTheCar]

Oh, this statement is awful:

"However, as a girl-only organisation Girlguiding does not have the right to exclude trans young people from guiding and nor would we wish to. "

So they ONLY care about or consider transgirls? What about transboys, they don't count as trans young people? Jesus christ.

And yes - they can be a same sex org they no longer want to be.

They changed last year some time to "same gender" without AFAIK consulting anyone.

The really depressing thing is that girls who ID as agender, bigender, genderfluid, any of the range of genders now, or as boys, are to be signposted towards other orgs ie managed out.

They are only interested in children (any sex) who ID as GIRLS. So in this day and age, children know that this is all about being super feminine. So they want to be an org for feminine children. How does this sit aside all of the research and statements they have made around sex discrimination, getting rid of stereotypes, and how important it is for girls to have girl only space?

They have chucked all of their history out and fundamentally changed what they are.

PP about scouts, they are mixed sex org so have safeguarding in place around different sex kids and overnight stuff. GG have stated that "transgirls are girls" so no need for any safeguarding. Older section currently runs from 14 to 25 I think? So 25 yo TIM could be in with 14yo girl and for them, there are no safeguarding issues. Nor any need to consider girls privacy etc. Seniors changing to max 18 soon but can't see this makes much of a difference.

[Winewinewinegin]

Who is up for starting a single sex organisation open to girls however they identify?

[Winewinewinegin]

This is so odd:

They are wrong about what the law requires. They have been told this several times and referred to the relevant legislation . They are still insisting that they are legally required to admit males as guides and leaders despite having the legal position clearly and comprehensively explained. I can only conclude that they are deliberately lying.

Could it be that they are right and the alternative advice given is wrong?

Who is taking these decisions and what legal advice have they been given from who?