Trans only spaces

[JacintaJones]

Apparently trans people are such a significant minority that we can change the way women are referred to in common parlance on their account.

Aren't they therefore significant enough to warrant the inclusion of 'trans only' spaces?
Specifically for pre op trans people.

Why isn't this sermingly a consideration?
It would certainly remedy a lot of this mess we seem to be in at present.

[JoyTheUnicorn]

I believe it's seen as transphobic by TRAs, because they are women, so don't need a separate space.

[SpringNowPlease2018]

OP this what they don't want

They want access to women's spaces because they have laydee brains.

[JacintaJones]

Its not transphobic though is it?

Its recognising the needs of trans people to have their own spaces until they can fully transition.

If they were women it woyldn't be transphobia would it?
The good old fashioned word misogyny would work if they were women.
Which they aren't in any physical sense owing to their penises.

So, they should have their own spaces owing to their own particular physicality.

Surely?

[JacintaJones]

or we could just have cis only spaces.
They can take the female changing rooms.
Be my guest ladies, we'll be over in the cis spaces with our xx chromosomes, having lost the battle semantically but won the fucking war.

[SpringNowPlease2018]

OP you are using logical arguments
The self ID supporters don't do logic, or biology.

[LabourLostMe]

But Transwomen are women. No debate.

To suggest being a woman is related to biology or physicality is literal violence, transphobic and denying their very right to exist.

It also apparently makes you obsessed with genitals

[LifelongVaginaOwner]

There are trans only sports sessions.

transcansport.wordpress.com/faq/

[JacintaJones]

Well thats it then.

They're not logical, therefore they are wrong. Let's tell everybody this exact fact.

Illogical TRAs are wrong.
Fact.
Because logic.

Seems simple enough....

[JacintaJones]

No debate?

Inteteresting.
So TRAs are dictating to us?

Who allows them this privilege?

[AssignedPuuurfectAtBirth]

We 'TERFs' would campaign and support trans places but as has been said, they don't want that.

They want validation as a woman (they don't care about the transmen).

And yes, no debate

Hate to tell you, but you are hoovering right on TERFdom yourself OP

[AreYouTerfEnough]

Who allows them this privilege?

Men have always enjoyed privilege because they’re men.

[JacintaJones]

They can be women.

They just can't be biological women and they can't share biological women's spaces.

They can have their own.

Lots of them dislike us, surely they'd be glad to have women's spaces away from the likes of us?

They don't need to be in our proximity to be women do they?
It seems counter intuitive to label us differently yet to demand our prsence to validate them doesn't it?

Or is this just logic getting in the way of entitlement?

[AreYouTerfEnough]

They need to be in our proximity to get off on it though. We’re just props.

[SpringNowPlease2018]

Jacinta I'm guessing you are new to this, but I'm sorry if I'm boring you with stuff you already know.

Who is allowing it? The Law Society are allowing anyone who self IDs as a woman to win women lawyer awards. The Labour Party allowed Lily Madigan to be Womens' Officer. Various organisations are letting anyone self ID for what were previously segregated swimming sessions. The press are reporting gender UD instead of biology, see Lauren Jeska being described as a female murderer.

Lots of places are allowing it. I think Girl Guides are allowing it now?

Yes, it is all about male entitlement.

[SpringNowPlease2018]

*ID

[TheGoldenBough]

Who allows them this privilege?

Never heard of male privilege, Jacinta?

But also, since you ask, the political parties that also spout the "TWAW" line and have redefined humans into the classifications of Men and non-Men. That is male bodied people who fit the narrow stereotype of what it is to be A Man and then everyone else - regardless of how they identify.

Because there are, apparently, 60+ genders now including my favourite, caelgender which means having a gender that is of the stars and the cosmos and anongender which means that you have a gender that is not known to you or others...

[UpstartCrow]

The fair solution would be to create 3 spaces or services; male, female, unisex. In most cases everyone who feels comfortable can use the unisex.
But trans activists don't support that.

[LabourLostMe]

No debate?

Inteteresting.
So TRAs are dictating to us?

Who allows them this privilege?

Owen Jones for one.

He wrote an article with his best crayons entitled 'Anti-trans zealots, know this: history will judge you'.

In the article OJ sites the 'brilliant trans voices emerging' as:

Lily 'down with cis women' Madigan

Paris 'it is awesome to be treated like meat by men' Lees

Shon 'women enjoy your erasure' Faye

Munroe 'suffragettes were white supremacists' Bergdorf

If you have a problem with this you are a transphobic cis-privileged bigot.

[hipsterfun]

Lots of them dislike us, surely they'd be glad to have women's spaces away from the likes of us?

You’d think. If even mentioning female things is upsetting for them, it’s astonishing that they want to be anywhere near our nearly-naked bodies. Must be very difficult for them

[Jux]

^Must be very difficult for them *

But they're sucking it up for the sake of society innit.

[SpringNowPlease2018]

Puuuurfect "Hate to tell you, but you are hoovering right on TERFdom yourself OP"

I bet the TRAs want the TERFs to do the hoovering anyway.

ba boom TISH

[TerfyTheCuntingTerf]

Its recognising the needs of trans people to have their own spaces until they can fully transition.

Most trans people never fully transition. Even with current rules for a GRC, there's no requirement to have any form of treatment at all, no operations, not hormones -- just a diagnosis of dysphoria is needed.

No debate?

Inteteresting.
So TRAs are dictating to us?

Have you been following what's happening with the various meetings and the attempts by TRAs to shut them down? The War on Women talk originally held at Millwall (MILLWALL of all places) until the sheer deluge of calls and complaints led to it being cancelled... and moved to the House of Commons which was an act of fucking genius. Even then, another deluge of complaints, including someone on Twitter saying they'd already called to complain using a number of different voices.

The Glasgow A Woman's Place meeting which was picketed by masked activists who banged and chanted all the way through the testimony of rape survivors. From what I understand, at some meetings the TRAs have been filming people as they enter. They of course are all masked.

The attack at Speaker's Corner. The woman recently attacked on a picket line. The Labour anti-TERF Facebook group collecting evidence of Terf-activity on members of the Labour party.

Look around a bit and you'll see people talking about having been doxxed and their employers receiving complaints and demands for them to be fired.

The Guardian originally describing Marie Dean's crimes as 'a string of burglaries' with no mention of it actually being a sex offence (and a pretty repellant one) in an article with an 'oh dear, look at this poor suffering trans person wrongfully imprisoned in a male prison slant'.

Nodebatenodebatenodebate.

[TerfyTheCuntingTerf]

Apologies: the Scottish Woman's Place meeting was in Edinburgh, not Glasgow.

An excellent article Posted on another thread, but relevant to the no debate issue:

fairplayforwomen.com/misogyny_hate_silencing/

[ArcheryAnnie]

I've posted about this before, but I've worked at a very trans-friendly conference, where they'd relabelled all of the loos to be gender neutral, leaving just one men's loo and one women's loo in the entire complex. Even though the women's loo was in a massively inconvenient place (up some stairs, down a corridor, round a corner, with a sign on the door saying ‘Beware of the Leopard' ), the Roz Kaveneys and Jane Faes of this world went to the extra effort to use them. They weren't interested in the gender-neutral loos or "a safe place to pee", they were interested in ostentatiously using women's facilities.

[Hulo]

Wasn't sure where I could put this - this thread seems the most relevant but it makes some interesting and really good points.

www.facebook.com/hope.disguised/videos/1881029088624743/

Hope is a black trans woman from the US. I don't agree with everything she says here (she sees herself as a woman though not female and she's trans focussed which is fair enough) but, you know, I can deal with a bit of agreeing to disagree. I'm grown up.

But she seriously slays the TRA demand to be included in women's issues. We are different, she says. We should be fighting for our own rights. Women let us have our own spaces, we should let them have their own spaces too. Why should we demand to be included in events like the Women's March; we swerved into their lane? Are we ashamed to be trans? We should be proud to be trans women.

It's great because she comes across as no holds barred, fierce trans woman who could run right over the average middle class over-indulged white TRAs who'd find difficulties dismissing her because she trumps most of them in the hierarchy of oppression.