Attitudes to Hillary Clinton

[Felascloak]

Been reading the Beebs coverage of Hillary Clintons nomination today (and the comments on HYS) and I'm pretty disgusted. Very little support for her as the first female nominee. Loads of disparaging comments about her marriage. Suggestions on nepotism

www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-us-2016-36475840


And to top it off the BBC have a video about how she "must own her inner bitch".

Ffs. What is the male equivalent of an "inner bitch" and do men ever have to own it?

I couldn't give a shit about her politics, surely it is to be celebrated that a woman has got to this stage for the first time? Compare with all the excitement about Obama.
Today is one of those days where the world's sexism has slapped me in the face
Apologies for the rant

[Felascloak]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-us-2016-36475840

[0phelia]

Unfortunately I can't accept Clinton because she is more of the same corrupt bullshit establishment.

Her close alliance to Saudi Arabia, with their fantastic record on women's rights and human rights (sarcastic) makes her as feminist as Caitlyn Jenner. All performance, a woman face, no substance. More inequality, increasing take-take culture amongst the privileged, and exploitation of the most vulnerable. Under Clinton women will be worse off.

Might I add, the press have likened Bernie Sanders to Lenin, labelled him the "Worst presidential candidate in history" and "A danger to your family".
Clinton has gotten off lightly with the predictable sexist remarks.

[VestalVirgin]

Unfortunately I can't accept Clinton because she is more of the same corrupt bullshit establishment.

I would still vote for her, since it is her or Trump, for all I know.

But you have a point. I didn't vote for Merkel, because her being a woman doesn't mean her politics will be good for women.My joy at having a female chancellor for the first time was considerably lessened because of that, too.


Being linkened to Lenin is a great compliment, actually. You can think what you want of Lenin, he was the head of a state. They take Sanders seriously.
Apparently they don't pay Clinton the same compliment. So no, I don't think she has gotten off lightly.

[0phelia]

To Americans, Lenin is like Hitler. It is not a compliment.

Clinton is as patriarch compliant as you can get. More of the same, predictable same.

[singingsixpence82]

I'm surprised that the BBC have said that kind of stuff. Maybe I'm naive. Whatever you think of her politics I agree, some fanfare and celebration in line with how Obama was treated would have been welcome. And no "owning her inner bitch". FFS.

[Dozer]

The "inner bitch" type stuff is v poor and sexist of the BBC.

But Clinton is not like Obama - he had built a "grass roots" campain and came from state politics. He had not been associated with previous administrations, as a spouse or politician.

It's not sexist to allege nepotism.

[singingsixpence82]

That's a fair point Dozer. But still, being the first woman to achieve this is a bigger deal than they seem to have made of it. I agree though that the nepotism thing isn't out of line to bring up.

[LassWiTheDelicateAir]

Being linkened to Lenin is a great compliment, actually. You can think what you want of Lenin, he was the head of a state. They take Sanders seriously

Saunders is not like Lenin. Saunders has not been and is unlikely to be responsible for the imprisonment and execution of his political enemies nor the death by starvation of his fellow countrymen due to mismanagement of agricultural production.

[TheDowagerCuntess]

Give me Hillary a million times over Trump - I have been supporting her campaign all along - but to run a country as a woman, that has a significant footprint on the world stage....

You don't really get to do it without being as hardline as Clinton or Thatcher...

[VestalVirgin]

@Lass: My point was, likening someone to a head of state who has done reprehensible things is still taking him seriously. "inner bitch" ... not so much.

You don't really get to do it without being as hardline as Clinton or Thatcher...

... and I am rather surprised Hillary on the opposite site from Trump.

In Germany, I am under the impression that women get higher up by being more patriarchy-pleasing. Like "Don't worry, my politics aren't just for women - in fact, my politics are against women! I'm one of the boys!"

[whattheseithakasmean]

I think to get there as a woman she would have to benefit from an element of being and insider or nepotism. I really is so much harder for women - they have to be as good as men, but backwards in high heels, as Ginger Rogers so famously said. I think it is great to have a woman running against a great big nasty misogynist like Trump and I am pretty unimpressed with Bernie Saunders refusing to accept he lost to a woman.

[grimbletart]

Sure it's nepotism. But so was Bush (snr and jnr) and the Kennedy clan. Seems par for the course in the US.

[LassWiTheDelicateAir]

and to top it off the BBC have a video about how she "must own her inner bitch".

Where is that?

[Dozer]

Yes, US politics is undemocratic with all the big money, lobbies, media etc.

[PinkIndustry]

I have not seen the coverage on the BBC web site but I did hear the original interview on Radio 4's Today programme this morning in which Tina Brown, who was very pro-Clinton and very feminist in the interview, made the "she must own her inner bitch" comment. It was made towards the end of the interview and came across with a touch of humour rather than sexism. Tina Brown's point was that Hilary Clinton is at her best when she is being confrontational because of her passion, her knowledge and her skill when arguing or debating and that, therefore, she should not feel she needs to bury that to appease voters. Tina Brown was also saying that this side of Clinton's nature may help her to appeal to younger women who admire a "go-getting" kind of attitude and who have not traditionally supported her simply because she is female.

I agree that "inner bitch" is not the best way to describe that side of her nature but in the context of the interview, and because the interviewee was a feminist supporter of Hilary, it is not sexism in the sense it would have been had the political editor of the programme made the comment. Or, indeed, had Trump said it.

I do think it's a landmark victory for women and feminism in the same way that Thatcher's premiership was. Personally, I hated Thatcher's politics and they were not good for many women, but the sheer fact that she became prime minister was an astonishing break through at the time.

[Felascloak]

Lass www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-36478571

pink I just read the headline - I couldn't watch the video at work
"Inner bitch" strikes me as innately sexist, regardless of context, purely because I can't think of any way similar advice would be acceptable to men.

[NoodleEatingPoodle]

"...and I am pretty unimpressed with Bernie Saunders refusing to accept he lost to a woman."

With respect, whatthe , if you genuinely think that the reason Bernie Sanders hasn't conceded is because he can't accept that he lost to a woman, you really have no grasp on the issues of this election or the point of Sanders' candidacy at all.

The Sanders campaign is very much about giving voice to the electorate's rejection of the influence of moneyed interests in their "democracy," and the demand that the Democratic party represent the progressive ideals of much of its base. Sanders said from the very beginning that the campaign would run to the convention, and that Dems in every state / DC would have the opportunity to cast a vote for the progressive movement. There hasn't been so much as a hint of sexism in how Sanders has conducted his campaign against Clinton, and nor should we have expected there to be, given his record on women's rights.

It's either very disingenuous or very ill informed to portray Sanders' decision to stay in the race as having anything to do with the fact that he's losing to a woman.

[singingsixpence82]

That's interesting Pink - thanks for the extra context.

[AvaCrowder]

I would promote the Clinton vote.

My reason, right or wrong, is that I grew up with the head of state being the queen, and the pm being Maggie. I grew up thinking that women were in charge.

So I'd like to see HC do it, just to give that idea to American girls and the rest of the world.

I'm not sure that I agree with her policies, but the idea is still there.

[PinkIndustry]

Yes I agree with you, it is an innately sexist phrase but when you listen to the interview you may see my point especially as the person who makes the comment is a feminist supporter of Hilary Clinton. I suppose it's a little like black people using a very offensive word to describe themselves as a term of pride. It is an innately racist term and there is no similar word that could be used to refer to a white person but it is not used in a racist way in such a context.

[LucyBabs]

Oh dear I don't think Margaret Thatcher is someone I'd want my dd aspiring to be..

Just because you grew up with women as leaders doesn't mean any leader as long as they are a woman will do what a fucked up logic

[AvaCrowder]

No it's not a fucked up logic. It's growing up accepting that women can have control.

I don't agree with MT, and I think HC would do the same sort, but I think the message of having a woman as a leader is very powerful.

[TheDowagerCuntess]

I don't think that's what Ava means. I think it's that seeing women (or, let's be honest, a woman) in charge means it's normal and unremarkakable. Ultimately achievable.

It's a strong message, and it doesn't rely on the individual, but rather on the office they hold.

Any woman won't do. But this one will do, when you consider the alternatives.

Any man won't do either, and yet we're inundated with them, ruling the world...

[TheDowagerCuntess]

X-post :)

[SenecaFalls]

I voted for her in my state's primary in 2008 and again this year. She is actually a bit to the right of me politically, and although I do agree with many of Sanders' positions, he has no chance of winning a general election in the US, and the thing that matters most to me is keeping a Republican out of the White House. And I disagree that Sanders has been vilified in the press; certainly in the US mainstream press, he has received very favorable treatment.

But I also admire her tremendously for what she has achieved, and I know she will definitely do more for women's rights than Trump and the Republicans will. They want to roll back women's rights. Just google "war on women in the US." If Hillary is elected and the Democrats take back the Senate, then that will do much to at least preserve the rights we already have, in large part, because she will appoint liberal justices to the Supreme Court (who have to be confirmed by the Senate.)