The Staircase on Netflix - anyone watching?

[Hamsterian]

Have binge watched this over the weekend and can't stop thinking about it. Lots of strange dynamics going on within the family and the relationship with his children seemed so odd. And what about what happened in Germany? Also why did they only mention in the last episode that she had been strangulated too in addition to the lacerations.

[ChocAuVin]

Same! Currently forcing DH to binge so I can discuss

[ChocAuVin]

He is guilty... just... he totally did it 🤷🏻‍♀️

[ChocAuVin]

His excerpts about murdering and compulsion to murder...

[Lewwat]

I read that he has been in a relationship with one of the producers of the documentary for quite a while.... Hence the innocent leanings to the whole thing!

Also wasn't there a footprint on the back of her leg?!

[marmeemarch1]

There's a really good podcast series on this case called 'Beyond Reasonable Doubt'. Very interesting case

[RedDwarves]

I think he's definitely guilty, but I knew a lot about this case before the Netflix series.

[Hamsterian]

Lewwat, that explains a lot! Omg. He is a total mentalist.
Kathleen seemed an amazing woman. Poor her.
Marmee, would you say the podcast provides more unbiased information?

[Hamsterian]

The footprint, the blood spot in the inside of his shorts with an upward motion, the strangulation and the more than 30 injuries on her body apart from the lacerations were all downplayed and ignored in this documentary.
The pictures are just horrific, how could that be from a fall down the stairs? Apparently the defence theory is that she fell down the stairs three times...

[Fattymcfaterson]

Have you read the owl theory?

He obviously did it. It's outrageous that's he's not still in jail.

[CookPassBabtridge]

Well the documentary worked on me, I came out of it liking him and thinking what a loving person he is. Then went onto reddit where everyone said he is guilty and I felt stupid.. Once I read all the evidence that wasn’t in the documentary I changed my opinion.
It’s just so strange how she didn’t have any skull fractures or brain injuries.. which would work with the owl theory!

[headinhands]

Me and a good friend binged onthis when it was on bbc3 last year. I was totally 'he did it' and she was adamant he was innocent.

[soloula]

We watched it earlier on in the year and just caught the last few episodes of Netflix. Off to find the podcast and the Reddit thread as by the end I was convinced he was innocent...

One thing I wondered was why they never explored there being another attacker? Surely that would have been more plausible than falling down the stairs three times or being attacked by an owl?

[mmmgoats]

I can’t make my mind up but there’s something very....odd about the family dynamics.
Those two girls have essentially had three mothers and lost two of them. The way they were shown actually felt quite exploitive to me

[chocolatesprinkle]

On the very last episode right now. There is SO MUCH that has been left out of this series! So much of the prosecution’s evidence not even mentioned!

[Thespringsthething]

I have also been glued to this. I know he's lying about that night and the way he found her for sure, but that doesn't tell me about whether he personally did it. The way the evidence was presented at trial was really not enough for the conviction (at least what was shown in this doc).

I think one thing that is very suspicious is that he immediately assumed, even despite the huge amount of blood and awkward angle that she fell down the stairs and repeats this even being interviewed 10 or more years later. Surely, if she did look as if she had additional injuries, and the blood was everywhere, then another person/intruder would be your more likely explanation and I have no idea why he, or his counsel, ever entertained this as a possibility. The only reason I can think of is that he/his counsel know he did it or was involved in some way and so never wanted to do further investigation. This is similar to me to another case where there is still an ongoing mystery (but difficult to discuss on MN) when it was assumed from the start there was an intruder that abducted the child and they still stick to that story, when actually there's plenty of alternate explanations.

Either people are just rigid and fix on one explanation, or they fix on one as they feel guilty/don't want the spotlight shined on them - this is not necessarily because they have committed the crime, but as someone up thread said, perhaps this 'loving husband' had nipped out for a quickie and didn't want to explain that.

I still don't get why he was so fixed on a fall as the explanation, if I were innocent, I would keep repeating that but I like to think I was open to all possibilities if I came down and found my husband injured with a hell of a lot of blood and head wounds at the bottom of the stairs.

Or perhaps they argued and she fell.

He for sure isn't telling the whole truth, but whether it was owl/other intruder/other lover/him frightening her or whether he actually attacked her and pushed her down is just not provable from the contaminated evidence now.

[DickVanTyke]

I feel so sorry for the daughters, particularly the older one who seems so dismissive of any other options. I think the younger one had a moment of doubt. I still have a couple of episodes to go though.
Do the boys still have a mother?

[mmmgoats]

I think the boys' mother is Patricia, Peterson's first wife.
Yes I felt so sad for the daughters, the youngest seems particularly affected by it all, talking about panic attacks and anxiety and her manner in the later episodes just seemed so fragile and sad :(

I wonder if they will ever be in touch with Kathleen's daughter from her first marriage again - the one who was initially behind him but swapped sides.

I've started listening to the podcast now so thanks for the tip about that, hoping it will give me a more rounded picture!

That's a very good point about rigidly sticking to the story @thespringsthething I think if you came across a scene like that you WOULD be most likely to assume she'd been attacked just because of the sheer amount of blood if nothing else.

[Thespringsthething]

I think thinking there was an intruder is a LOT more plausible than thinking an owl attacked her. If an owl attacked her outside, she would have been shouting and screaming if that badly injured and so MP would have heard her, fountain or no fountain (plus there's no evidence the fountain was on in Dec!)

[Thespringsthething]

Just watching the final episode now, in which he admits that he didn't tell his wife at all about being bisexual or sleeping with male prostitutes, but they still had an idyllic relationship and she tacitly accepted it and even if she had known about it (which she didn't which is contradictory) it would have 'been all right'.

Yep, most people's idea of an idyllic relationship is finding gay porn and numbers of male prostitutes on their husband's home computer!

[Carouselfish]

Be nice if this had spoiler alert in the title. I read three posts and it's already spoiled a good chunk of it.
I'm on episode 7 and have actually been on his side!

[NellMangel]

Yes! I've just done episode 8 thinking it was the end. But no. 5 more episodes. He's an odd character. I'll be back when I've finished...

[BananaToffo]

If an owl had attacked her she'd be shouting and screaming

An owl attack has been likened to being whacked with a baseball bat..so, no, it's not actually that likely she'd have been "shouting and screaming". She may well have been giddy and disorientated from it.

The owl theory is highly plausible given the evidence:

Talon shaped wounds on her head (that look identical to wounds seen in actual owl attacks)

Three microscopic feathers from an owl's foot. One in hair she was clutching in her hand, two in hair on her head

Blood drops on the front drive way

Pine needles on her hands and legs indicating that she'd fallen over outside

Blood smears with her fingerprints on the front door consistent with her shutting it while bleeding

Evidence from her footprints that she was bleeding before she got to the staircase

Blood spatter going up the stairs rather than down

Evidence from three experts that her wounds are consistent with an attack from a particular breed of owl (forget what it's called) that is known to live in the area and has attacked other people

The evidence supports the theory that she went outside, got attacked by an owl, got knocked off her feet (which would account for her bruising), had to physically wrench the owls feet off of her scalp (explaining the ripping), ran inside, slammed the door (leaving bloody fingerprints) and then fell backwards while trying to get up the stairs.

People tend not to scream when they are having to take action (like running or fighting off an attack) as they have to conserve energy so it's unlikely she was screaming loudly outside. And if she'd received a blow to the head, that and the biggest panic of her life probably stopped her thinking clearly and all she wanted to do initially was get the fuck away from the owl...possibly not realising how badly she'd been hurt.

Whatever hurt Kathleen ripped her scalp without bruising or damaging her skull - this kind of injury is almost unheard of when one person bashes another person on the head, but it's classically seen with bird attacks.

The owl theory is actually plausible when you look at the evidence.

Oh, and if there's no evidence the fountain was on in December then there's none that it was off either. Maybe they liked the tinkly sound and had it on whenever they sat out there.

[Thespringsthething]

People tend not to scream when they are having to take action (like running or fighting off an attack) as they have to conserve energy so it's unlikely she was screaming loudly outside

I don't agree, mostly people do scream when being attacked (I've done it myself!), but that doesn't mean he heard it, smoking his pipe quietly outside in the garden...

This is not an impossible theory, but it is an improbable one. It's also improbable she fell only a couple of stairs up and crushed her throat as well. Improbable but not impossible.

Finally, people fall down the stairs every day and hurt themselves, but are rarely killed. Again, improbable but not impossible.

Once you have to string lots of improbable things together, the chances become really low. There is a much more probable explanation that someone banged her head a few times on the stairs.

I am not convinced by some microscopic owl feathers, but the point is there's no real evidence it was Michael (other than he was there), so in the reasonable doubt scenario, you could never convict him.

[CornishMaid1]

I honestly do not believe he killed her. I just don't think he is that good at acting.

I can imagine him thinking she fell down the stairs - she was found at the bottom and his late friend fell down the stairs after an anuerysm so maybe that is why his mind went to that. I would certainly have thought she fell rather than someone has broken in and beaten my wife.

I can believe Kathleen may have known about his leanings and accepted it. A lot of that type of acceptance happened in older couples and we are talking 17 years ago.

At the very least, I think there was reasonable doubt and he should not have been convicted. There was too much tainted evidence from the prosecution (Germany should never have been evidence, the ME embellished her report at the request of her boss and Duane Deaver completely fabricated results) and the fact that he is bisexual was used as a crutch to convict him (I don't think they would have felt the same if he had affairs with women).

The owl theory does make a lot of sense. You have to remember though that they had been drinking a lot that night, so if she was attacked by an owl, her reactions are going to be different from the amount of alcohol.

[Thespringsthething]

Yes, I do agree if she'd drank a lot and taken a Valium or some such (which I think they said) she might have been quite confused/dulled.

I just find it a bit weird that they were perfectly satisfied a fall made those marks (which was quite debatable) and now a new theory has come along, in fact, they now agree the new theory is much better.

I guess that's what the justice system does- makes people fix on an explanation when in fact they don't know, just to defend themselves.

I don't think that using male prostitutes would have been tacitly accepted at all. I agree open marriages have always existed, but even MP says he never told Kathleen or ever mentioned his bisexuality. So, at the very least this would have been a huge shock and for most people, using prostitutes would be finishing off a marriage, not just a 'oh well, whatever, he's such a great husband and were're so close' type scenario. She was working long hours, paying him to stay home and have sex with Brad. I really really don't think many women would tacitly be accepting of this whatsoever!