Just need help. :(

[flossy12]

OH really needs some advice, him and his ex have a DD together who is 5, ex has declined for her to come on holiday abroad with us later in the year but agreed she could come away within the UK

We booked a holiday in the uk which is soon and now EX has turned round and said that We can not take DSD with us, there is no court order in place or anything like that as it hasn't really been needed, OH wants to collect DD from nursery the day of the holiday and take her away as we planned, would anything happen if we were to do this?

Any advice would be appreciated as DSD keeps going on about the holiday and how excited she is etc

[user1493413286]

I really would not recommend doing this; i appreciate that what his ex is doing isn’t fair but I also don’t think that is the right course of action. I doubt you’ll end up enjoying the holiday through wondering what the consequences will be and I don’t think it’s fair on his DD.
If she then goes to court then it will not look favourably on him for doing that. I would recommend accepting that a holiday might not happen this year and apply to court for holiday arrangements to be set out for next year so that she can’t stop it in the future. He’s going to be involved in his ex’s life for a long time and I don’t think a holiday is worth what this could all cause.

[readitandwept]

Could he get an emergency court order? Contact his solicitor first thing in the morning?

I'm not clued up on this kind of thing, but I'm sure I've seen it mentioned here before.

[flossy12]

I don't know how serious they would take it as it's in the UK not abroad?? We are having to contact a solicitor about taking her abroad as well as she cannot agree with OH on this

[user1493413286]

I think the way you need to look at it is that if he does this she may not trust him around any arrangements with his DD in the future and stop all his contact. He would then end up going down the lengthy court process and potentially not see his DD for several weeks all for the sake of a holiday.
His DD is also 5 and wouldn’t have the chance to say goodbye to her mum before a holiday as her mum won’t know she’s going and she’ll come back to a very angry and upset mum and feel really mixed emotions about this holiday.

[Doyoumind]

These are the situations where having a court order is worthwhile.

How many nights in a row have you had her previously and how long is the holiday you are proposing?

[Doyoumind]

Defintiely don't just take her by the way. It would be scary and upsetting for her and will do you no favours in the long run. You may be able to get an order for this.

[flossy12]

She's constantly changing contact and things it's never ending, this is why we are eventually going to court, she has left DSD twice and gone abroad with her OH and not informed us of where she was and OH didn't see his DD for 10 days , it is also going to fall on our weekend when the holiday starts so she is refusing to let us have her for the weekend aswell. And will then make the excuse that the weekend after is hers as well so either way we are not going to see her 🤷🏼‍♀️

Her mother is always angry shouting obscenely at the door and swearing etc, threatening me .... while DSD is present!

[CanILeavenowplease]

Would you want that to happen to your 5 year old child?

You would be playing a very dangerous game where the courts are concerned. It is not the way to show you are a reasonable, rational parent who is capable of putting their child first. In a worst case scenario, the ex gets to use words like ‘kidnapping’ and suggest she had no idea whatsoever until she turned up at nursery and her child wasn’t there.

The ex is in the wrong without a doubt. But this really would be a two wrongs won’t make a right situation.

[CanILeavenowplease]

Would you want that to happen to your 5 year old child?

You would be playing a very dangerous game where the courts are concerned. It is not the way to show you are a reasonable, rational parent who is capable of putting their child first. In a worst case scenario, the ex gets to use words like ‘kidnapping’ and suggest she had no idea whatsoever until she turned up at nursery and her child wasn’t there.

The ex is in the wrong without a doubt. But this really would be a two wrongs won’t make a right situation.

[flossy12]

@Doyoumind so the holiday is a Saturday to Friday holiday, if we don't have her we won't see her since the Friday the week before so that will be 8 days, then not for the week of the holiday and then not till the Thursday after that so in total it will be 20 days no contact

[flossy12]

@CanILeavenowplease I get what your saying completely, but I would never stop my child from going on a holiday with their own parent who has regular contact with them? I've been in DSD life for over 3 years now and we have an amazing relationship

We have all messages and texts as proof that she did agree to holiday and she is using it as a bribe for something else (not part of the situation) basically if we do something for her then we can take DSD away, which is not what a child is for

[Doyoumind]

A court order has been needed because you are in this mess where her mother dictates when contact will and won't happen. It's really the only way to get this sorted. I would get things underway urgently.

I would speak to a solicitor and possibly the court to find out what the chances are of getting this in as an emergency in time.

[sarahg216]

its very hard but agree with pp that you need to get to court ASAP and don’t rock the boat until then. Otherwise her behaviour refusing contact, holidays etc will likely just escalate.
It’s the only thing that worked for us. Plan an extra special holiday with dsd once the court process has gone through and keep your conduct blameless until then.

[flossy12]

We aren't the richest family around, and this holiday abroad has taken a lot of our money as we booked for all of us as we didn't expect there would be a problem with DSD being so old now,

We've paid over £400 for the holiday to the beach and being that we can't always get our holidays off together and working diffferent shifts etc it's hard for us to be able to afford to just book an extra holiday until maybe next year, but all this means DSD is missing out

Although her mother expects for OH to be all fine with her taking DSD away next year with her partner they are going away this year for the 2nd time soon and we haven't had more than 3 days with her, but if he refuses then it's DSD missing out again

[Contraceptionismyfriend]

I'd repost this in legal and start looking seriously at the steps you can take to get a CAO ASAP.
She's a raging bitch. But that's not going to change.

This all depends on how much your OH is willing to do right now.

[swingofthings]

If she's 5, isn't she in school? Is mum refusing because this would be taking her out of school in term time? If not, what were her reasons to say no after she'd agreed?

[user1493413286]

It’s really clear that his ex is completely unreasonable and isn’t putting their daughter first but equally coming down to her level isn’t the answer.
It will be better for your OH to be the bigger person who is doing everything right; by just taking her or gives the ex the opportunity to make him into someone he isn’t.
It’d be hard to argue in court that you were acting in his DDs best interests by collecting her and taking her away when she’s expecting to be picked up by her mum. Whereas he could go to court and explain how unreasonable his ex is by not letting her go on holiday.

[flossy12]

Thank you all for your help, it's really nice to hear that it isn't just us being crazy!!

We're ringing today to see if it can be classed as an emergency or not for contact to be stated for the week, I mean 4 sorry not 5

[swingofthings]

On the other thread you say she is 3, not 5 (which explains the being at nursery rather than school).

It explains a bit more the reluctance from mum although still very wrong to take back her word after she agreed.

[Butterflyone1]

Could you just say to Ex that you will be staying at home now but are happy to have DSD? She's clearly trying to call all the shots so sometimes you also have to play the game.

I'm sorry you're in this situation.

[flossy12]

Have spoken to solicitor and they have explained that we aren't in the wrong, that when things go to court we won't look bad, and a lot of other things about the situation

[readitandwept]

So are you going ahead??

[flossy12]

We have an appointment with the solicitor next week so will be discussing it again then

[peaceand]

People look at things from their own side but rarely think about reality.
The dc would not be hurt or upset if the df collected the dc instead and then went away.
What about if your car broke down and your dc had to be collected by someone else? Or if the mum decides halfway through the day the dc can go?

OP if you do it she will be pissed! And all hell will break out, she will probably be on here telling all MN her dc was kidnapped by the df and she will be calling the police.

@flossy12 you said before she will let dc go if you do her the favour, have you got that in a text or can you do what she is asking until the order?
You may have advice that tell you that your be ok to go, and your probably right but what happens when you get back and go through court? She may well stop all contact until she's made to allow it.

My dp ex let him have his ds over night with no prior warning to the ds (3) , he collected the ds from nursery and went home. 6 months later she finds out he's dating me and stops contact. All her statements say he's never had over nights nor unsupported contact. Contact has to be supported as she has concerns due to my dp not knowing his ds very well, it took six months to get sorted even though he had the proof she was lying.

[Doyoumind]

IME age does matter and 3 is different to 5. If you've never had her for a run of more than a few days, the court could side with the mother and say she is too young to go abroad at the moment. I would settle for getting proper contact organised.