Is it worth another try?

[Petal02]

just wanted a few opinions: now we're into 2012, and DSS will be 18 this year, I was thinking of talking to DH about the access rota, to see if we could have another go at flexible visiting. I hasten to add I'm not suggesting less contact, but more of a "pop in and out" arrangement.

We made several amendments to the access rota to accommodate Christmas, DSS coped fine with this, which blows a huge hole in DH's argument that "DSS is too sensitive to cope with minor changes of routine."

Any thoughts? Or am I flogging a dead horse?

[RandomMess]

Well I'd go for the brick wall, "he coped at Christmas/New year absolutely fine, don't be so bl**dy ridiculous" repeat ad nauseum and brow beat dh into submission.

[fallenninja]

I think its perfectly reasonable for more flexibility to come into it as DSS is 18!! However based on what youve posted before i suspect you are flogging a dead horse.

People for flexibility: Petal

People against flexibility: Petals DH, Petals DSS and Petals DSS mum.

[MJinSparklyStockings]

Dead horse vote from me - sorry

[theredhen]

When is he actually 18? If it's not til end of year then I'd keep quiet til then and see how the rest of year goes. What are his plans after the end of school year? If he plans on uni, then this will naturally stop the rota without you being the baddy. If he starts a job, the rota will surely at least change because of dss working hours.

I think you will just upset yourself if you try and force the issue and I also think the more you try, the harder everyone else digs their heels in.

[WhoDrankAllThePepsi]

Having read Petal's posts on this subject before I have to say I wouldn't be surprised if the DSS avoids university/getting a job etc in fear of it affecting the access rota!
I think you're flogging a dead horse Petal, it must be so frustrating for you. Very silly situation.

[brdgrl]

I'm afraid I agree with theredhen, based on your previous posts. You might just get more resistence than ever, and lose any ground gained by Christmas.

Sorry if this is a clear non-starter - and suspect it is - but have you tried talking to DSS directly? Appealing to his own sense of 'being an adult' and how it woudl free him up to make more of his own life choices...?

[allnewtaketwo]

Sorry Petal but I really think it's flogging a dead horse as well

I feel for you, I really do. Does he do his A-levels this year or next year?

As you know I am heading towards the same situation you are. DSS1 is 16 and the rota is going strong. On the plus side, DH is increasingly seeing the situation as quite odd. While he was able to use the excuse in the past that the rigid rota was purely down to DSSs control freak mother (which it has been), DH is really now starting to question why DSS1 is so reluctant for any control over his own life. DH has asked him a few times recently why he doesn't want to spend time with his friends at the weekends/evenings.

Like your situation though, I don't see where it's going to end. It's all very well people saying it will change at 18 - when he goes to university/work whatever. But will it? I can't see that starting university would stop my DSS1 from continuing with the every other weekend lark, I really can't. Like you say "like night follows day", every other weekend must be spent at dad's, no more no less, just as the judge ordered 9 years ago.

Sorry no advice, I'm in similar despair

[Petal02]

Thanks for your replies Ladies.

I?m torn between leaving things as they are, even though it pains me greatly, just for the sake of quiet life or going for the jugular and insisting ?he coped perfectly well with changes over Christmas/New Year, so don?t be so ridiculous?. (Good idea RandonMess)!!!

I posted last night, when DH was taking DSS home after a particularly difficult weekend. Thankfully DH found it very difficult too. It?s been almost impossible to get any conversation out of DSS for the past couple of weeks (although this is probably quite common in 17 yr old boys) but all he wanted to do this weekend was follow DH around, and it?s made things particularly difficult.

On Saturday we wanted to choose some new work tops for our kitchen; DH didn?t think DSS wanted to come with us, and seemed relieved about it, but then DSS piped up that he DID want to come, so DH agreed. But it just became farcical; DSS (all 6 foot of him) kept placing himself either between me and DH, or me and the worktop displays, and we just couldn?t get anywhere because there was literally a large, mute, slow-moving object in the way. To be fair, I don?t think DSS was being deliberately obstructive, but his corpse-like demeanour was making DH really cross and in the end we abandoned the trip.

I know that DH would prefer it if DSS had other distractions, but is still adamant that DSS should allowed to participate in anything that occurs on an access weekend (like you would if he were 10), but I felt there was absolutely no need to take DSS out with us on Saturday afternoon. However once it became apparent that DSS was making it impossible to choose a worktop, DH should have either told him to stay out the way, or go and sit in the car. So we didn?t manage to choose worktops, literally due to it being an access weekend, which is ridiculous given DSS?s age. When I were that age, the thought of trailing round kitchen showrooms with my parents would have been horrendous. And I doubt they?d have taken me along with them.

On Sunday, DH wanted DSS to help him clear out the garage. DSS wasn?t impressed, but DH didn?t back down. However I heard shouting coming from the garage ? it appears that DSS couldn?t carry out even the most simple instruction, he either failed to hear or understand, and DH ended up sending him back into the house

When DH got back from taking DSS home, he apologised for how difficult the weekend had been. I didn?t say anything. Sometimes silence is quite effective in our household. What I wanted to say to DH, is that just because DSS has elected not to engage in life, surely it shouldn?t mean we have to either provide entertainment for him, or include him in our activities? Before anyone flames me, if DSS were a younger child, then obviously I would expect to entertain/include him. It?s almost like DH reluctantly accepts the status quo, and tries to give DSS the distractions he fails to seek for himself. DSS?s only interest in life seems to be coming to our house, he has no interest in anything outside of that, so there?s been nothing to break the pattern ?naturally.?


If the visiting pattern was more flexible, more ?little and often? rather than these protracted residentials, may be it be easier? But on the other hand, at least I can guarantee a completely child-free weekend next week, whereas ?flexibility? could mean DH and I never get a whole weekend to ourselves.

To answer a couple of questions ? DSS will be 18 in September. So he takes his A levels next summer, and will start uni in September 2013. The universities he is considering are a fair distance from our home town, and there?s no way he?d be able to get back every weekend. Of course, if he DOESN?T go to Uni, and tries to find a job, then I could honestly see the access rota continuing for literally years.

I know DH would prefer a more age-appropriate arrangement but his desperation to completely indulge DSS over-rides this. Maybe I should just go with the flow given that the end is hopefully in sight, but after the weekend we?ve just had, September 2013 seems a hell of a long way off. We also have the issue of wedding we?ve been invited to, in a few months time, that clashes with the access rota. The thought of either having to decline the invitation, or having to transport DSS to DH?s sister for the weekend, just to be rota-compliant, is just mad.

Sorry for the rant. Although I am encouraged that DH found the weekend difficult too.

[Smum99]

There is light at the end of the tunnel for you - Does DSD do well at school? Is he likely to achieve the grades to get to Uni? Is he motivated about going to Uni.

It does seem very odd, my ds is much younger and would even now try to avoid DIY stores with us, can't see him choosing to do it at 17.

[brdgrl]

flexibility? could mean DH and I never get a whole weekend to ourselves.

From the sound of it, this is a likely possibility! If he is that inclined to just follow DH around, and has no interests of his own....you mind just end up with him planted between yourself and DH even more often...and with little or no notice. And I can foresee your DH cancelling plans when DSS just turns up....At least with a rota you have some justification for protecting your free time!

Sorry to ask (I feel as though I should know this already!) - but is DSS a special needs kid? Aspergers?

Perhaps DH is beginning to come round, though...Could you engineer more such trips/opportunities???

[Petal02]

He doesn't have aspergers or special needs. He's extremely lazy, he's always been indulged, and simply has no mind or will of his own. It's easier just to cling to his Dad, who pampers him and allows him all-expenses-paid entertainment on alternate weekends.

I get the impression most posters think I won't get anywhere with this, and you're probably all right. Very frustrating though.

[brdgrl]

Sorry, petal. I am hopeful though that his dad will get fed up with it all on his own...and then you can gloat quietly. Fingers crossed...

[Libby10]

I feel for you as we have similar rigidity. We did suggest an alternative to make it less bitty. We would continue 50:50 but it larger chunks which seems a bit less artificial when the step kids are in their later teens but DP's ex didn't want to budge. I despair a bit as even the eldest who are at uni fall into the same pattern again in the holidays - I suppose for them it seems normal. Good luck - we are going to try again at the beg of next term so it may be worth plugging away.

[Petal02]

Brdgrl ? you?ve hit on a good point there, that DH may get fed up with this all on his own, in which case we get a better situation without me being the ?bad guy?.

Libby10 ? I nearly had a seizure when I read that your step children (who are at uni) still follow an access rota during the holidays ?. And I bet Allnewtaketwo had a similar reaction. Surely once they?re at uni, they?re legally adults and you won?t be paying any maintenance for them, so the ex hasn?t got any influence over what you do (or don?t do) when they?re home in the holidays? Do the children (can we really call them children when they?re at uni?) actually want to live like this?

It seems bizarre that many step parents actually have less flexibility than bio parents when it comes to these situations.

[allnewtaketwo]

yes I did indeed Petal! Although another poster had reported similar a while back, so it has been preying on my mind (think it was silverfrog).

You might be lucky. For my DSS1 it's quite likely he would keep up the accesss rota beyond 18, as DSS2 will then be 15 and still doing it! God I'm depressing myself here, imagine DSS1 still doing access visits aged 21

[Petal02]

An access rota for adults is just so very WRONG.

[Libby10]

Sorry to cause alarm - I find it hard to understand myself and certainly I hadn't expected this. I'm hoping that the pattern will break when they are all at university. Like you Petal we don't want to see them less its just that such a rigid set-up seems faintly ridiculous now they are older. Unfortunately I can't see it stopping while DP's ex wants it to continue and in the holidays if they aren't with us then they will be staying with her so its not just a maintenance issue. Obviously we don't want them to feel they are not welcome but I had sort of hoped that they would reach the point when they were happy to make their own arrangements re seeing us under their own steam.

[WhoDrankAllThePepsi]

My DS is 13 and wouldn't dream of coming along to a DIY shop either with me OR his father and stepmother. He'd be depressed at the very suggestion.
I do fear though, Petal that as you have already pointed out - flexibility could well back fire on you. I have no suggestions but I really do feel for you.

[Libby10]

Sorry Petal I didn't see your comment before I posted. I agree with you completely but don't know what to do. My parents were divorced and at a similar age both I and my brother would make arrangements to see my dad either together or separately. It just seemed to happen naturally although admittedly we never had such a rigid access rota as a starting point. It never occurred to me that it would just keep trundling on.

[Purpleroses]

Could you try accepting the status quo in terms of access weekends, but push your DH to treat DSS a bit more like a teenager/almost adult when he is around?

I'm guessing your DH maybe sees it as his DS lives with him on half the weekends, whereas if you shifted to informal visiting, it would be more like he lives with his mum and is just "visiting" you rather than part-time living with you, if that makes sense? And if he's lacking any motivation to do anything then a shift to seeing his dad when he likes could result in not seeing him much at all I would guess - which maybe isn't what your DH wants.

If he's lazy and a drip, and has no social life, that isn't just a feature of the access rota (though may indeed be one reason why he's not sought to change it for himself) but it's a bigger problem for him in needing to make the change to being more of an independent adult. Would you be best focussing on that, and what he needs to help him grow up, rather than the access rota per se, which clearly is an issue you're not currently getting very far on? Eg - trying to help or push him to have more of a social life, and and by pushing DH not to include him in everything that the two of you do together.

Agree that trips round DIY stores with a 17 year old sounds ridiculous - my 12 year old wouldn't want to do that and would happily stay home alone.

[therantingBOM]

Petal, I don't even think I can respond to your OP - it's so frikkin BARMY!!!! What planet are DSS, DH and his ex on that they cotinue in this obsurd vein!?

I really don't know what to say. mental.

I'm sotrry you are still dealing with this

[MrsDollyLevi]

I'm wondering why this young man has NO social outlets, NO peer group friends and WANTS to trail around with you two at the weekends?? No offence Petal??

My son is 11. He has asd (high functioning) and cannot initiate/maintain friendships. He is hopeless (though he tries) in his social attempts. Is your DSS a little "this way"? Or maybe just painfully shy? Might he benefit from some counselling?

It must be hard for you but it can't be a barrel of laughs for him, either!

[Petal02]

Purpleroses - I like your idea of (trying) to accept the status quo with the rota, whilst encouraging DH to treat DSS more like a young adult. I suspect I?m only going to be banging my head against a brick wall with the rota. But I?ve been thinking about this overnight, and oddly enough, if we ever need to change the arrangements on an ad hoc basis, ie like over Christmas and New Year, DH has no problem in telling DSS the plans have changed, and DSS has no problem accepting this.

So thinking about it, just lately we?ve been able to make slight amendments to the rota, but if ever utter the words ?we need to stop having a rota? then all hell breaks loose. There?s some really strange psychology about this. It?s like DSS can actually cope with a change, just so long as he still thinks life is underpinned by the rota. And that also seems to satisfy DH.

I suppose my other question (and I?d like opinions please) is at what point is it acceptable to stop carting DSS around with us? Before people throw sharp objects, I?m not suggesting we never take him out again (!) but as the natural growing up process hasn?t happened, at what point can DH realistically say ?sorry mate, but me and Petal want to go and look at kitchen showrooms, you?re old enough to entertain yourself by now??

[Purpleroses]

That's a strange one - I'd say he's more than old enough already - I can't imagine any of the kids that I or my DP have (aged 8-14) ever wanting to look at kitchen showrooms! Could you try "It'll be pretty boring for you, so would you rather.... (watch a DVD, be dropped off in town to browse round shops,... whatever). That'll be more fun I should think" And then suggest doing something with him the next day, or something?
But how to get a 17 year old to have a social life? Not so sure there. Would be good if my DP's DD had a bit less of a social life then she could babysit for him a bit more!

Buy maybe you're onto something with the rota - you need to be gentle - just never utter the words "we need to stop having a rota" and instead suggest the specific changes that you want, when you want them - if you're doing something that DSS could join you on at a time when you wouldn't otherwise have him, invite him along, then look to leave him with his mum some other time "in return".