Why do people feel the need to bring up SN all time time?

[helpfulornot]

I have posted another thread about DS1's behaviour at school.

AFAIK, he has no SN, and I posted it in the Primary Education topic.

Why do people feel the need to use SN as an excuse or explanation, when it has not even been mentioned?

[coppertop]

I've had a look at your other thread and don't understand your question. One person said something like "Unless he has SN then..." etc.

Generally speaking, SN can be an explanation.

[helpfulornot]

I know it can, but if SN was involved in my DS's case, surely I would have thought that was relevant, and maybe the teachers would have been handling the situation differently

I just don't see what SN has to do in my DS's case..

[helpfulornot]

I'm just frustrated that while everybody seems think that I think spitting is OK (and that I don't think it's gross), nobody has been able to come up with any useful suggestions.

I don't believe my DS is the world's first DC who spits....

[coppertop]

"I just don't see what SN has to do in my DS's case.."

MNers generally ask about possible SN as it can sometimes explain certain behaviours. If your ds is NT then the reasons for him swinging his bag etc will be very different to the reasons why a child with, for example, ASD would do the same thing.

I still don't understand how one post on your thread equals people bringing up SN all the time?

[helpfulornot]

It's only a new thing too.

He learnt to read over the last few months, and from about the end of his first week at school he was telling DH that he couldn't read, had forgotten how to. Also his drawings have regressed to just scribbles.

Something has happened, I don't think at home, things have improved here with DS2's progress, so something must have happened at school to cause this run of "bad" behaviour.

Sorry I know this is not the board for non-SN stuff, but I feel like everybody else out there is condemning me and DS, with no helpful suggestions.

Wwwwaaaa....

[twocutedarlings]

I sure he's not the first or the last!!

tbh, if i was you i would make an appiontment to see his teacher and see what she has to say, like you say he is still very young and his poor behaviour could simply be because he is knackered!!

[coppertop]

X-posted. I would imagine that it's a bit like when you go to see a GP and they ask you a few general questions first to rule out some of the possibilities and then go on to give you advice on what to do. Basically looking at the possible cause rather than just treating the symptom IYSWIM.

[Peachy]

You can't demand an answer, only request one.

tbh I think you're posting in completely the wrong place; many mn users have their oc's set so the don't see threads in this section, and it's meant for support with sn issues.

This belongs in chat.

Oh and in answer... I think people often post on mn in the first person then say 'well actually its another kid...', so people on MN have learned to use the sn escape. Also because threads start with an op but grow more generally so someone will say 'yes we have spitting ' and replies stop being purely to the OP.

DS3 spits btw. He has sn.

[LadyMuck]

But that wasn't what you asked for in your OP or in the title. On reading your OP, you ask for no help about the spitting, instead it would appear that you are incredibly miffer that you child is being turned into a "social leper" by having to have lunch by himself. Whether you like it or not the thread title is the first thing that a MNer will read, followed by the OP.

In your situation I would defintley be asking for help in how to manage a 4yo spitter. But actually what you have asked is whether the school was reasonable in separately your son for lunch.

As far as the SN comment goes, whilst you might have mentioned any SN in the OP, there have been occasions when the OP hasn't mentioned SN and only after 20 posts or so the OP comes back as says "oh but my ds has Lassie disease, and can't help the spitting - I only wanted to know whether the school was reasonable about the lunchbag".

Spitting at a teacher is unacceptable behaviour. How do you deal with unacceptable behaviour with your 4yo?

[SixSpotBurnet]

I'm sure a chat with his teacher would be a good place to start.

How does the school reward good behaviour/deal with bad behaviour? (I do apologise, I haven't read your original thread.) It's always good to be consistent both at home and at school, iyswim. If they use stickers to reward good behaviour at school, could you have a sticker chart at home and for each day at school that passes without incident, he gets a sticker and then at the end of a week with 5 stickers he gets a small treat - a comic or something?

[helpfulornot]

Sorry x-post.

Coppertop, I don't know why she raised it, wouldn't I have posted here if Sn issues were involved?

[LadyMuck]

miffer?
should be miffed I think.

[MUM23ASD]

when my ds1 was 6 'they' mentioned SN

i reacted with denial

he was diagnosed with ADHD at 7
Aspergers at 9

alot of 'behavioural SN' kind of simmer in reception /yr1... and all i can say is you may be posting in SN regularily in the futeure...you may not.

who is the 'lucky child'??
the one without SN that is treated as if SN so gets all the strategies and help and support

or the one WITH SN (like 2 of my 3 who are all SN) who are treated as if not SN (no strategies,support)

CORY speaks alot of sense- she has been posting ref educational SN issues for years.

please don't dismiss everything about SN- as i did.

I look back now on the 2 years i was in denial....and regret it so much

because i 'accepted' it with ds3 when he was in reception- he is now yr5- 1 month into the school year- with more help and support than my eldest 2 have had ever had in total in the past 5 years.

Yes, not every 'naughty child' is SN...but if a child has got SN and it is not obvious- that child will continue to be excluded from group activities so much that he will loose so much self esteem that he will then choose to witdraw himself.

this is so sad to see.

my ds1 didn't spit- but licked everyone (cos he loved them all so much- and had been told to stop kissing them)
by yr 2 he had been excluded and punished so much that he gave up trying to intereact and at 'circle time' kept sitting under a table with his back to the others...THAT is when i accepted he had SN

[coppertop]

I think there have been a few threads in the past where the OP has described a problem in their first post. Later someone has posted something along the lines of "I'm not saying your dc has SN but they sound a lot like my dc who has [name of SN]" and then the OP has said that actually they have suspected in the past that their child might have SN etc.

People don't always feel comfortable posting on the SN board if their child doesn't have a dx'ed SN, even when they suspect that there's a problem. That's why so many SN posters will actively encourage people to post here so that they realise that everyone is welcome.

[helpfulornot]

Sorry Peachy I'll post in Chat next time, I do actually post here regularly regarding my DS2, who does have SN. I did actually think it was relevant here, obviously not.

Apologies.

We punish him with immediate time out, for four minutes. There is no point and it is unfair to punish him hours later.

We give him a smiley face if he is "good", for various things, and after 4 he gets a bigger reward.

We tell him everyday that if he has a a"good" day he can make cupcakes, and I remind him of this before I drop him off.

Also twice a day (after school and before school) we go through the "rules" - no hurting, etc, he can recite them all.

The school gives stickers if a child is "good" (and takes them away if a child is "bad" later), makes them have lunch on their own, and makes them miss out on playtime. The teachers have told DH that DS doesn't seem motivated by these things though (although he did get upset when his sticker was taken away last week).

It obviously isn't working, because he's been playing up now for almost two weeks, hence my request for strategies to help him.

I know this doesn't belong here, sorry, but I am completely at my wit's end.

[coppertop]

My last post is a classic example of over-use of "SN" in a single post.

[LadyMuck]

So is the spitting a new thing? How often does he do ti, and in what situations?

[MUM23ASD]

ok, so you are familiar with SN- your ds2- so forgive me if my tone of posting implied you were a newbie!!!

i think this is the right place to post- just hits a raw nerve with many of us .

[SixSpotBurnet]

Now I am probably going to really hack you off now, because I am going to post something about my DS1 (aged 9) who does have mild SN. Just in case it is relevant...

DS1 is a very highly capable boy and copes very well now in mainstream but when he was younger (especially between the ages of about 3-5) he was very prone to impulsive "lashing out" behaviour. Which included kicking, biting and sometimes spitting. We were very fortunate in that he did get a DX and armed with that we, nursery and then school were able to put in place strategies to manage his behaviour. BUT punishments did not really help - he seemed almost to have no control over the lashing out - in many ways it was like a reflex. He is still a bit like this with DS2 although I think he manages to keep it under wraps at school now.

Does your DS's behaviour fall into the "impulsive lashing out" category?

[MUM23ASD]

alot of children do 'slip backwards' when they start school- they have to cope with the big transition from nursery to school- they suddenly are expected to sit still...pay attention....remember their book bag...coat...jumper.....and they panic

they want to be that nursery child again.

they don't want to read and do other 'big boy things'

and that is SN or NO SN!!!!

[SixSpotBurnet]

If you could tell us a bit about DS here, so we don't have to go looking for your other thread, that would be very helpful (sorry I am lazy but am at work).

[coppertop]

Whether NT or SN I wouldn't be happy with the idea of children having stickers taken away from them again. I wouldn't have thought it was a good idea from a teaching pov either. Surely no child is going to be motivated to earn a sticker if they know there's a chance it will be taken off them again? The poor little mite is only 4yrs old.

I also don't agree with making a 4yr-old eat by themselves as a punishment either. For a KS2 child maybe but definitely not a 4yr-old who has only just started school.

[SixSpotBurnet]

Oh he's only 4! Poor little mite!



I think it's mean to take the stickers away too.

I think he needs looking after, at school, and not punishments.

Sorry, I know that's not very helpful to you.

[MUM23ASD]

helpfulornot - i've read a few of your recent posts and can see that you are going throgh a tough time.

are you still going to the meeting at school tomorrow?

[mabanana]

I find it pretty offensive that you are so annoyed by the merest caveat that if your child had SN the advice would be different. Why is it so offensive to even use the letters SN in response to a post about a child who reacts with extreme aggression and antisocial behaviour to a slight delay?
Peole are trying to be NICE and UNDERSTANDING. If you are going to lash out and start threads about them behind their back, then they will be reluctant to try to help you, frankly.
Lots of children have SN, and plenty go undiagnosed, sometimes due to their parents being in denial (an emotion many of us including me have experienced).
You asked was it wrong for your child to have been punished and separated from his classmates for some pretty awful behaviour? My answer, and that of most people is that yes, the punishment was appropriate UNLESS he has SN. It wasn't unduly harsh, it was a consequence of his actions, and the school has to get a grip on spitting and kicking. What do you WANT people to say?