would someone on the spectrum be able to do this ?

[thriftychic]

i have been remembering back to when ds2 was younger and he once tried to get his own back on ds1 for something by putting his beloved toy dog in a rubbish bag bound for the tip.

dp realised what hed done, took the dog out but pretended he had taken the bag as intended . when ds2 realised hed been to the tip , he broke down and confessed all in a panic . obviously he could predict how heartbroken his brother would have been. now, from what i have read someone with asd would not do that.

what do you think ?
ds2 would have been about 8 at the time .

big question mark at the moment whether ds2 problems are down to asd

[BigWitchLegsInWailyTights]

I am not an expert...but I wouldn't think so. Having said that...aren't there a lot of variations?

And "on the Spectrum" is misleading no? Because we're ALL on it to some degree....

[lisad123]

Question is was he upset because he knew how upset his brother would be OR because he knew he would get told off?

[coff33pot]

Ds is forever winding dd up but at the end he is able to say sorry or be upset due to thinking everyone hates him (which of course we don't) but that would be wy down the line of priority because he would insist on carrying on till the bitter end and until was showing actual tears so he can see he has upset her by the tears. Up to that point no he wouldn't weigh up that she was distressed in the slightest.

[coff33pot]

That said if he saw a starving child on the telly he would be distraught about it and not sleep etc so it can go in circles a bit x

[tabulahrasa]

DS would know DD would be upset by losing something if he'd be upset by losing a similar thing, he wouldn't know if it was something he wouldn't get upset by though. He wouldn't know which of her possessions are her favourite, he'd pick by what he'd miss most and it wouldn't even occur to him that she might not rate her possessions the same way.

[Pagwatch]

Ds2 was about ten when he put my bracelet down a drain. When I started frantically looking for it he became really tearful.
he gets upset if people are hurt in anyway.
Asd/special school

[Ineedalife]

I also wonder if he was upset at the thought of being in trouble and also the shock of the reality of the toy actually going to the tip.

Dd3 has the intellect to be able to carry out something like this but would she would do it out of anger and not understand how the other person would feel.

Dd3 bears grudges against people who she considers have wronged her in someway and will refuse to ever speak to them, which can get tricky.

Dd3 definitely has ASD and anything she does to another person is only for herself, its not really about the other person. If that makes sense.

I hope you get some answers about your Ds2 soon. I was in the not knowing situation for a long time with Dd3, well I knew but the proffs wouldnt commit themselves. It is not a nice place to be.

Good luck

[thriftychic]

thanks for all the responses. the thing with the dog was that ds1 and ds2 had one each. they were besotted by mil two german shepherds and wanted a dog of their own but being allergic to them it was a no no. so we bought 2 very life like german shepherd soft toys. ds1 brought his downstairs every morning until he was about 14.

i also wonder about the fact that ds2 banged his head and had concussion around the time i noticed his behaviour ,but he also started puberty then aswell. could asd be caused by a head injury? i always thought not.
ds2 would definately know which were prized possessions of ds1 these days , i.e his macbook

[thriftychic]

ds2 has also just recently paid dp back for not letting him have something he wanted by deleting all dp friends off his computer game.

very calculated i think. ds2 is 13 btw.

[coff33pot]

DS would say he will pay someone back for upsetting him but he isn't a silent plotter and he will shout out payback time! And tell them what he was going to do. It's more impulsive behaviour at that particular time.

[thriftychic]

well ye, ds2 did shout in anger 'right then i will delete all dads friends list ' and when my back was turned he did it.

[Ineedalife]

What do you think thrifty, do you think he has ASD?

I am asking because I am nosey and also because I need to understand your gut instinct.

If you dont want your Ds to be labelled, remember that you decide who to tell well it will be up to him mainly given his age.

I have found Dd3's diagnosis has helped us as well as her because it goes someway to helping us to understand where she is coming from.

[thriftychic]

I have gone from definately is to definately isnt , back and forth. i just dont know anymore.

After looking in to it all though , i can see how ds1 (16) is the one who absolutely ticks all the boxes for aspergers . i always hated the fact when he was little that he didnt behave like all my friends kids but i was so young and had no idea Autism even existed ! He talked in a posh voice (we r defo not posh) , he lined things up, he never mixed (just this last year started to have friends ) he would go beserk if i moved anything from its usual spot in the house , took a different route with him in the buggy . massive tantrums for no apparent reason aswell. talked at us on and on about one subject for YEARS and lots more . but, he is extremely intelligent and very happy how he is.

i wonder if it makes it more likely ds2 is asd ? he is quite often not happy. my gut feeling has always been that something is not right. how come all the others coped with the move to high school , how come none of my friends kids are having massive meltdowns and smashing up the house ? he spent the first year of high school threatening to kill himself on and off . After moving him to another school he still hated it, his books all had pictures drawn on them of him with a gun and a coffin

after he has gone crazy he then hates himself and tries to prove how i mustnt love him anymore . he lies , he doesnt learn i.e he joined facebook when i'd said no . gave him consequences and deleted account , he was crying and sorry but then we had the whole same scenario twice more . same with using phone for internet and porn.

has stolen money off us a few times .
went ballistic because i wouldnt let him pack his suitcase for a holiday miles in advance and then said he wanted to take EVERYTHING with him from his bedroom.
has improved at school but previously was not making any effort (they said) distracting others , shouting things out and winding other kids up and not really getting on with them .
was in trouble last week for calling a girl something racist (he says he didnt know it was racist)
and apparantly it all started because the teacher allowed the girl to use a calculator so ds2 shouted out 'cheat cheat'.
extemely selfish , has from about age 6 badgered dp every weekend relentlessly to take him to do whatever the current hobby is .
we are currently on fishing , but its also been bmx bike riding and he once wanted to be a window cleaner and that became all consuming . dp ended up going to a wholesale place while ds2 spent all his birthday money on pofessional equipment . not to mention the 5000 buckets he accidently won on ebay on dp's ebay account .
had a robin hood obsession as well resulting in dp travelling miles looking for 'bendy' wood to make a bow and arrow.
sorry , really gone off on one here lol

[thriftychic]

its not that i dont want him labelled. i actually started to feel relief when the psych said hed seen signs of asd , i thought a definate answer was imminent . it wasnt until the day after when i began testing ds2 out myself on the things the psych had mentioned , the jokes and idioms that i started to think this wasnt going to be the answer after all.

[Ineedalife]

I think what you need to remember is that everyone on the spectrum is diffierent. There are masses of symptoms and everyone has a different combination.

My Dd1[24] was assessed from about 4 till about 9 because we knew there was something going on but no one was quite able to decide what it was.

When I had Dd3[10] she was so obviously different to other children right from the start and I started to think she had ASD. I started to do some reading as Dd1 was very challenging at the time and realised that the likelyhood was that they both had ASD.

Dd3 was eventually diagnosed last year after a 3.5 year assessment, we have had some difficult times with her especially when she started school.

Dd1 doesnt have a diagnosis but it is generally accepted among the family now that she has ASD too.

There are loads of people on here with more than one child on the spectrum and probably loads more with children who are undiagnosed.

Dd1 is able to live independently and has a LO of her own. She has quite a few scary moments and needs rescuing on occassions but these are getting less and now that she has a really supportive partner I do less bailing out than ever.

I totally get where you are coming from but I guess in order for your Ds to get the right support and understanding at school you might need him to have a diagnosis. It does sound like he has a few red flags TBH.

Have you every read Tony Attwood's Complete Guide to Aspergers? I found it very useful and there was lots I could relate to.

Sorry that was so long

[thriftychic]

dont be sorry , i could probably talk about his till the cows come home at the moment ! its going round and round my head . in fact i got the impression that psych thought i had asd myself , he said i also had a lack of facial expression .
i really need to stop thinking but i go nuts !!

[thriftychic]

and thankyou

[Ineedalife]

You are more than welcome, this board has stopped me from losing it on more than one occassion.

I was exactly the same when Dd3 was being assessed. It became all consuming, I was either reading or phoning people or coming on here to get advise.

The not knowing what the outcome is going to be is very stressful.

Are you getting any support in real life?

I didnt get much because most people didnt believe that Dd3 had ASD.
School didnt support me and in fact they tried to say that I was the cause of her issues.

Keep coming on here and let some of it out, it really helps to know there are others around who know what you are going through.

[thriftychic]

thanks. no support in RL at all , my mum says i am just letting him 'rule the roost' . my mums dp , when i explained that ds2 was point blank refusing to go to school said that my dp should just pick him up and throw him in the car. aside from anything else ds2 is now a big strapping lad and dp cannot physically throw him in the car!

they have had me questioning myself if i have been too soft with him or something but its times when ds2 has had a big meltdown and been hideous (rang his dad and told him to crash his truck and die last week) and then hes sobbing 'why am i like this' that makes me realise its not quite so simple.

[Ineedalife]

I think you really need to go with your gut instinct on this.

Your mum and her partner are from a different generation and it is not so long ago that people with autism were stuck in institutions just because they were odd and children who couldnt behave at school were stuck in borstal.

One of the things I said to the proffs about Dd3 was that I could manage while she was small enough to pick up and strap in a buggy or car seat but what on earth was I going to do if she point blank refuses to move when she is too big for me to pick up.

We have reached that point now and she has been experimenting with refusing to move quite a lot just lately but at least now I have some strategies to draw on.

I would try the diary, make a note of how you handle the situations you find yourself in, I bet you will find that you are not soft at all.

[thriftychic]

ye, its a good idea . i will do that x

[Ineedalife]

Am off to take Dd2 back to college.

Be kind to yourself and take it easy

[SilkStalkings]

I think the OP example would be do-able by a kid with PDA. They are often compelled to do mean things when they don't get their way and then quite upset about it all afterwards. it's the automatic mean deed that is the marker for that condition, rather than the lack of contrition.