Ok, this is really an SN AIBU.....

[Becaroooo]

My ds1 (8) was assessed by the private EP today at school. Afterwards, had a quick meeting with the EP, my sons new teacher (well, one of them) and his teacher from last year.

Havent got the report yet, obviously, the EP just wanted to talk through some of the tests she did and ask me what my concerns were etc.
She said that he was a bright boy with a great vocabulary.

I made the point that, despite 10 months 1-1 with me and being at this school since Nov last year ds1 has made very little progress wrt literacy. If this continues he will get even further behind his peers than he is now (he is in year 4 and working at a 1a for reading and 1b for writing )

I told her that I am very concerned as in 2 years he goes up to high school (year 6) and will sit his SATS and will end up in the lowest sets for everything because of his literacy skills (or lack of)

His teacher from last year then said:

"Well, you may have to accept that thats the best place for him"

wtf???

No. I do not accept that. He is a very bright boy who cant prove he is on paper because of his poor literacy skills!!!

On the one hand, they tell me how clever he is and that he is making progress and that they are pleased and a teacher says that!!!???

He is getting phonics 3 x per week and extra help 2 x per week but the SENCO is (still) off sick and so I cant go to her. He is also not reading every day to a teacher/SENCO/TA etc

Come on, AIBU????

[coff33pot]

does his old Teacher have sore ears??? because she would if it was my son she had spouted that about.

Negative expectations like that will not help your child one bit. YANBU at all I would be furious.

When your son passes his exams in the future because of your determination go back and nail them to her forehead.

[Becaroooo]

Thanks coff dont think dh understands why I am so upset/angry

Wwyd now?

Have a meeting with the HT and his new teacher (dont think the SENCO will be there) on 4th Oct to discuss the EP report and things arising from it....do I mention this then? Do I e-mail the HT and complain now?

sigh. So bloody angry!

[coff33pot]

I would definately email the Head but what I would do is hammer out on the keyboard how you feel and then tomorrow morning reconstruct it to a more polite but diplomatic level


What suggestions did the EP have during your meeting?

At least you have a new start with a new Teacher so the old one is way gone by so I would focus on making sure she gives your DS the support he needs.

[StarlightMcKenzie]

Becaroo, this one isn't worth it. It isn't. Pick your battles.

You have to ignore lots of crap and focus on the outcomes you need for your ds.

Wait for the EP report. Phone the EP afterwards to clarify things and get things altered if you need them to be (EP won't go against their professional opinion but will write more about the areas you feel you need more info on etc.) and then use that to get what you want.

Keep broken-recording about his ability not matching his literacy and get it written down in as many places as you can. Get his intelligence written down as many places as you can too.

You can email the head in advance of the meeting the agenda, with a copy of the report.

Make sure that one of the agenda items is:

How we are going to work together to raise ds' literacy skills to his intelligence and capability level.

[Becaroooo]

yeah....I know star Feel like slapping that teacher She is NQT too!!! Grrrr

[StarlightMcKenzie]

I know but the only thing that anger towards that teacher is going to do is make you less effective.

I hate all the fairytale anti-feminism crap but sometimes it does fit. Be Cinderella. Work hard without grumbling (I mean do challenge things, but do it politely and with purpose) and hopefully you'll get a happy ever after. Even if you don't, you'll know as you lie on your death bed that you did everything you could and that despite the eventual outcome you never did fail your ds. And he'll know it too.

[StarlightMcKenzie]

I meant, you never did give up on your ds.

[coff33pot]

Star is right Becaroo I am having a pissed off with school time of it so not the best judge of action at the moment

I would still have given her an earache tho lol being me but I would treat her comment with the contempt it deserves mate you got more important things to organise for DS

[Becaroooo]

Yes, you are both right, of course

Got my dad to do the school run this morning (bless him!) as my back is so bad today and tbh I didnt want to run into the HT as I know I would have blurted something out!!!

HT has asked if I want to help out in reception once a week (I did this at ds1's other school) and I said "yes"....she thinks it will help as I will see how the school works. I think it will help as it will give me access to things other parents dont get to see!!!

Still really pissed off though

Am thinking maybe we should get ds1 a tutor to help...I have been trying to help him for 3 years now and its not worked No idea how you go about it though

I am going to ask the EP when we get the report whether we should apply for SA....dont want to really (we wont get it) but just dont know what else to do....

[Claw3]

What a stupid thing for her to say. You should have said something like 'i was hoping as little progress has been made, you would want to help' or 'fuck off you stupid cow'

Star is right, as angry as it makes you, pick your battles.

[raspberryroop]

OooH am loving the Cinderella thing - I think it is how you have to be so much - I could scream at Social Services at the moment but just keep smiling and say oh thanks for your help, and what was your name and could you pop that in writing because I just want to keep things straight.

[raspberryroop]

Whistle while you work is now my new theme tune !!

[Becaroooo]

claw I genuinely could not formulate an answer that did not include the words "fuck" "bitch" "you" and "off"

Thank God she isnt his teacher this year!

Am going to do an IEP for him myself (SENCO on long term sick) and take it to the next meeting. They are all going to hate me by the end of this term -and if they dont I wont be doing my best by ds1.

Thanks for your replies...nice to know I am not imagining what a crass, awful thing it was to say

[StarlightMcKenzie]

just shout if you need any iep help!

[Claw3]

Those words often run through my head, while i sit there nodding politely! I often find once i get home i think oh i should of said this or that, but its hard to think on your feet.

Doing your own IEP sound like a really positive alternative to "fuck" "off" etc!

[StarlightMcKenzie]

Never feel you should have had the perfect retort on the spot.

That is what the written word is for........

[Lougle]

I feel like a broken record, but here we go...

What is your eventual aim? Has your DS got the ability to answer questions, etc., but perhaps not in the written word? Do you think he could do better with a scribe, or a laptop, or even something like clickr?

The more I live the SN world, the more I realise that parents of children with SN have been sold the wrong dream. We are given the dream of 'normalising' our children, or giving them NT outcomes.

Sometimes, we need to look beyond what we want and look at what we need. I truly believe that in this day and age, a child doesn't have to be able to write stuff down to communicate it.

Perhaps, for your DS, his focus needs to be 'communication' not 'literacy'?

[Becaroooo]

lougle Yes, he can answer questions - his ability is in no way demonstrated by his performance. I think that a scribe would help - sorry what is "clickr"?

AFAIK he will need to write stuff down to get GCSEs and therefore a decent job??? He has such big dreams...it breaks my heart that he may not be able to acheive them because he cant communicate with/understand the written word

He needs more 1-1 help, not group based phonics! He needs a strategy to help him with his memory and sequencing! He needs everything to be taken back to the bare basics and to go over again what he has missed/not understood etc (the paed and optician have both said this to me!)

How on earth I put that in an IEP I dont know

Thanks for the replies, its good to know I am not alone

[IndigoBell]

lougle there's a very fine line between scribes, laptops and other compensating strategies and lowering expectations.

I think it's a tragedy to give up on teaching your child to read and write just because computers exist - or just because they find it exceedingly hard.

I don't think you'd find a single adult who is happy that they can't read or write.

[ouryve]

Indigobell, Lougle is free to correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think she is suggesting that the aim of being able to read and write is to be given up on: rather that his difficulty isn't allowed to hold him back in other areas where he can make good progress with the right help.

I've worked with kids who had a great grasp of practical science and a sound understanding of what they were observing, but who would have completely missed out if I had expected them to use worksheets relying on their literacy and reading skills being at the same level as their scientific ability.

[coff33pot]

I have to agree with Indigo there. DS hates and struggles with writing and there are endless tantrums with it. But he can use a computer (all be it he is only 6 and his spelling is somewhat awry!) To me if he can use a computer to form a word then he will one day write it by visualising in his head as a picture iyswim.

I know yes we are sold the normalising stories but to be honest if we stop pushing our kids to get the best out of them then time could well stand still for their futures........then that teachers comment would be fact much to my disgust.

[Lougle]

IndigoBell ouryve is right that I am not talking about giving up the opportunity completely.

What I don't see the point of, is seeing 'writing skills' as an essential part of every subject.

Why can't a child who struggles with that aspect have that as a 'subject' all on it's own, then be given modifications to enable them to communicate their knowledge the rest of the time?

I go back time and time again to Fred Epstein. Eminent (now dead) nuerosurgeon, who was profoundly dyslexic. he managed to convince his lecturers to allow him to dictate his answers to exams, essays etc.,

I simply don't understand why we have this aversion to appropriate adaptations for intellectual disability.

Who would even consider denying a child an electric wheelchair because they had trouble with their legs? It would be cruelty. Yet, we withold strategies that allow progress in some areas, in case it lowers expectations in another.

[Spinkle]

Has he been screened for dyslexia? an otherwise bright child with these levels of literacy needs looking at.

High schools would not put him in the bottom sets for everything due to this issue.

[Becaroooo]

spinkle He was assessed by an EP on Thursday and the school are getting him seen by the specialist teaching team (STS) by request of the paed at some point - dont know when.

Wont get the EP report til late next week/early the following week...am hoping she suggests some modifcations/ideas to help ds1 and that the school listen.

He is a 1a for reading and a 1b for writing. He has made some progress but very, very little...since Nov last year he has moved 1 sub level for maths (he is now a 2a) and 1 sub level in reading and no change in writing.....and school are "very pleased" with his progress...sigh. In his end of term report they stated he made "steady" progress in all subjects....just ot true. he has made patchy and limited progress in literacy.

[IndigoBell]

Spinkle - all high schools set whichever way the want to, so you cannot say what they will or won't do wrt sets.

He may only be in the bottom set for English. Or he may be in the bottom set for English, and other subjects like history, or he may be in the bottom set for all subjects.

Becaroo will have to speak to the SENCOs at her local high schools to find out their policy.

But even being in the bottom set for just English can be a terrible experience for a bright kid.



Lougle - I still totally disagree. Schools are more than happy to allow students to use readers, scribes, and laptops. It gets them better results and makes the teacher and school look better. In most schools it is far too easy to get these compensating strategies put in place.

I refuse to let my DS and DD have anything like that. If DS fails his Y6 Maths paper this year because they can't read his answers, I'm fine with that. It won't effect DS (I know his high school don't set based on his KS2 marks), but it will effect the schools league table.

This is the only tool I have to apply enough pressure to get the school to teach my kids to read and write. Not only will they fail reading and writing, but they will also fail maths and science. Makes it far more important for the school to teach them to read and write.


I think school should be about preparing kids for life, not about getting good results at Y6. If they leave Y6 unable to read or write, this will have negative consequences for them their whole life.

It's great if they learn science. I don't really care if they can prove it to an examiner or not.

I will let them have stuff for their GCSEs. But I think it's very important they don't while they're still at primary school.