10 month old early rising!

[Sunshinegirl82]

Hello,

I have posted on here before regarding DS's sleep. In short it has never been great and he has never been close to 'sleeping through'. That's fine, I understand babies wake at night. Recently however he seems to have developed a habit of waking very early (between 4.30 and 5) and refusing to go back down. Given he is still waking in the night as well this is getting a bit tiring!

Prior to this recent change to early waking he had been waking 1-2 times a night, usually somewhere between 10 and 11 and then somewhere between 1 and 2. He would then wake for the day at around 6ish. This was perfectly manageable.

Around 2 weeks ago he started crawling and since mastering this has started pulling himself up on furniture. He also caught a cold from which he has now pretty much recovered. I initially put the early waking down to cold/developmental leap but it shows no sign of passing.

Does anyone have any tips? I'm conscious that early waking can be a sign of both too much and too little daytime sleep so it's hard to know how to manage his naps! Because if the early waking he is normally reading to go down again at 7.30 but I try to stretch this to 8/8.30 is I can. He will often have 1.5 hours nap in the morning. He normally sleeps again around 1.30 for a further hour. Bed time is 7(ish).

He eats well in the day and is still breastfed on demand. I feed him when he wakes in the night (he guzzles it down and seems genuinely hungry). I have tried offering more milk/food in the day but he won't breastfeed much in the day unless it's at nap time.

Thanks in advance!

[FATEdestiny]

Early mornings are linked to over-tiredness, not too much sleep.

I think the awake time between your 1st and 2nd nap and the gap between 2nd nap and bedtime is too long.

If your DS was my child, I would add in a third nap. I don't think he's ready for 2-nap days yet. If have a morning nap as you are (aiming to push it to 8.30/9, but accepting it will be earlier in the short term) then another nap at 12pm and another nap at 4pm. It might posh bedtime to 8pm ish, but that's not a huge issue I don't think.

[Sunshinegirl82]

Thanks fate. I always really struggled to get a third nap out of him as he's a bit of a nightmare for fighting sleep but I'll definitely give it a go. I might try taking him out in the car as that sometimes works. I don't have any issue with a later bedtime, it's normally 7 because he's pretty tired by that point but with a later nap (if I can get one) that might change!

I took him up at 8.30 this morning and he was probably asleep by 8.45. He woke just a moment ago (so after about 1 hour 15 mins) but was clearly still knackered. I gave him a quick cuddle and he went back to sleep so I've put him back down. Looks like he might be going for a 2 hour nap this morning!

It's at this sort of point I always get confused about what to do! Some of the books say that long morning naps are a no no because they are catching up for the early wake with the nap so it peretuates the early wake. But getting him up when he's clearly still really tired seems wrong?!

[Dizzywizz]

Ds2 (2.5years) has always been an early riser...I know he is a lot older than yours but I have learnt to live with it, we have moved bedtime around and 7.30 means he sleeps until between 5-6, any earlier bedtime and he is up around 4...I go to bed 8.30/9 so I am not too tired in the morning.

Sorry j know this is not really helpful but I am just trying to say you might need to adjust your sleep time to work with this...ds2 has now dropped his nap so I am hoping he may start waking later. Some people are just really early risers and don't need as much sleep.

[FATEdestiny]

Some of the books say that...

I know what you mean. You have to take it in context though. Books have to cater for the needs of babies in millions of different situations, so they do the best attempt at "cover all" one-size-fits-all (but it doesn't) answer.

So if you had a baby

• sleeping though, getting a block of 10-12h uninterrupted at night.
  
• getting two 90m/2h plus naps
  
• the issue was waking in the morning
  

I would suggest the timing of the naps is the problem and to limit the length of the morning nap, to allow for moving the time of the afternoon nap

So if you had a baby

• sleeping though, getting a block of 10-12h uninterrupted at night.
  
• having short 1h naps
  
• the issue was waking in the morning
  

I would suggest the issue is due to lack of daytime sleep and longer/more naps are needed

If you had a baby not sleeping through then any issues with any of the timings (waking, bedtime, naptime) are all done by changing daytime naps. Given you don't have a block of sleep anyway, the timings at night are always going to be fluid.

If you add into not sleeping through, also having not enough daytime sleep, you'll struggle to extend the nights sleep without first tackling the over tiredness from not enough daytime sleep.

So back to your points. Books do their best to give an answer that will be right for as many people as possible. But to do that they would make several assumptions of what an average child at this stage is doing. I'd suggest the average assumption for a 10 month old would be 11h uninterrupted or mistly uninterputed sleep over night and two naps of at least 90m. If this "average child" then started waking early, the answer is give (and most people with any experience would give) would be make the mirning nap later and shorter.

Problem for you is that your child isn't conforming to that average.

[Sunshinegirl82]

Thanks Dizzy. I suspect DS is a fairly early riser, he has never slept past about 6/6.30 since birth! All these people with babies that sleep till 8.30/9?! Not a chance here!

We already go to bed at 9 and take the early mornings in turn as far as possible. Last night he slept 7.30 till 2.30, had a feed and went back down then was up for the day at 4.45. That's only about 9 hours overnight sleep which doesn't seem enough at 10 months? I reckon he probably needs another hour at least.

He had been waking nearer 6 so its only in the last few weeks it's moved to before 5. If it can't be changed then we'll learn to live with it (not much choice!) but would like to see if we can get it back to a bit nearer 6 if possible.

[MiniMaxi]

Sunshine, thanks for posting this - you're describing our situation almost exactly (though our DS is a bit younger)! I don't have any words of advice but am going to try to follow some of the advice you've received - so thank you!

One thing we are considering is blackout blinds to help now the sun is rising earlier - are you using those already?

[Sunshinegirl82]

Thanks fate, that makes sense. He had a two hour nap this morning and has woken up in a much happier mood! Given that he woke at 10.45 I was thinking I'd aim for 1.15/1.30 for his next nap, does that sound about right? If he does another 90 mins/2 hours at that point I guess I'd push him
through till bedtime? And if a shorter nap try for a third nap at around 4?

Mini, I'm sorry to hear you're in the same boat although it's nice to know we're not alone! I had tin foiled his windows for the last few weeks in case that was the issue and we now have a proper black out blind up. So far it hasn't stopped the early wakings but I'm hopeful it might be a contributing factor in the slightly longer naps we've been seeing.

[FATEdestiny]

Great start to the day op! Absolutely, if you get another big nap I'd push through to bedtime. If you don't, add in a teatime power nap and make bedtime a bit later.

[Sunshinegirl82]

I took him up at 1.30 and he was asleep by 1.45 so we shall see what happens!

[Sunshinegirl82]

Only 45 mins this afternoon. Took him out in the car at 4 and drove round for 25 mins but he stayed wide awake! So I'm guessing I put him to bed a bit early instead?!

[FATEdestiny]

If afternoon naps are consistently shorter, I would try making it earlier so that a teatime power nap is more favourable.

[Sunshinegirl82]

Well he went 7.15 till 4.30 which is great! I went in as soon as I heard him and he had milk and with a bit of persuasion, went back to sleep. He then slept till 5.45. Not perfect but pretty good! I think 9 hours is the longest straight stretch he's ever done!

Ideally he'd drop the milk at night it I figure it's best to tackle one thing at a time!

I'll take him up at 8.30ish and we'll see what sort of nap we get this morning!

[MiniMaxi]

Sounds like progress, Sunshine!

I followed FATE's advice to you and pushed major naps in the day yesterday.

Ours finally settled at 8.15pm (his preferred time lol) then woke pretty much hourly until 4am when he had a feed... Argh! I'm putting that down to teeth / too hot / developmental leap. And hoping it's a phase!

BUT he did then sleep til about 6.15 which is a big improvement.

Good luck today!

[Sunshinegirl82]

Thanks mini! Sorry you had a rubbish night, hourly wake ups are the worst! Feels like you get no sleep at all! It was warm last night, I checked Ds about 5 times as I was panicked he'd overheat. Slight tangent but what do you put them in at night? Ds was in long sleeved vest and 1 tog sleeping bag last night, gro egg said 23 degrees. He seemed ok but I was kicking the duvet off all night.

Well he went down at 8.45 and is still asleep now, hoping he'll do at least 90 mins. Then might hit soft play in the hope he'll have another long nap this afternoon!

Fingers crossed you have a good day!

[MiniMaxi]

Last night it was 23 degrees according to the groegg and he was in a short sleeved vest and 1 tog sleeping bag. Usually he's in long sleeves but it was so hot even with all the windows open I thought prob best to put him in less. We've also got him in a Sleepyhead but I'm hoping to wean him off that soon.

This morning he went down at 8.45 and woke exactly 45 mins later (gotta love those sleep cycles...!) for comfort and some more milk (he's been fussy lately but seems to have his appetite back). Now back to sleep so I'm hoping to get another 45 mins out of him.

He's not self soothing yet - I've cuddled him to sleep since he was born, which is naughty I know but irresistible! (And important early on as he was 6 weeks premature and we were advised to cuddle as much as poss).

I should add he's 9 months old now - 7.5 corrected for early arrival.

[FATEdestiny]

MiniMaxi is the cot in your room?

Might be worth having baby right next to your bed, if cuddles are needed to get baby back to sleep. And develop coping strategies to maximise your sleep despite baby's sleep.

Learn to resettle without opening moving from your bed for example. I could reinsert dummy and resettle by leaning an arm into the cot, without moving from under my duvet and without even opening my eyes.

Also, move the clock so you cant see it. Stop counting wake ups and timing them. Just maximise how much rest you get.

I didn't move the cot out my bedroom until 12 months old - once consistantly sleeping through. Until then, I was bloody well not going to be disrupting my own sleep more than it needed to be.

[Sunshinegirl82]

We managed an hour and 25 mins so happy with that!

I took Ds out of his sleepyhead 2 nights ago and he's adapted really well. He's just started crawling and I think the sleepyhead was a bit restrictive. He's been spread eagled in the cot whenever I've checked on him!

We've always cuddled to sleep too, I know people say they should learn to self settle but he just seems so little yet and he got so upset when I tried getting him to go to sleep in the cot that I decided it just wasn't worth it. I figure we'll be able to tell when he's ready, I just don't think I'm cut out for sleep training.

[FATEdestiny]

I just noticed you two using your 1 tog sleeping bags. Blimey, I must have kids who like to be a lot warmer. I wouldn't consider the 1 tog until the proper height of summer.

Just checked the temperature on the monitor in DDs room, it says 23 deg currently (1.30pm, she's in there sleeping right now). She's in a 2.5tog sleeping bag and long leg, long arm pyjamas at night. In the daytime she wears the top she's had on all day (long sleeved t-short today) with her bottoms removed, in the 2.5 tog sleeping bag.

[MiniMaxi]

I know exactly how you feel about sleep training, Sunshine...!

FATE, he's never taken to a dummy - when he was little he couldn't really hold it in his mouth properly, and since he's been teething he just gets really excited and chews it! You've given me good advice about naps etc before so I really should try the dummy again for self soothing (especially as I'm not keen for him to have cuddly toys etc in his cot while he sleeps)

As for sleeping bag togs, I'm just going with what Gro advise really! Maybe he was too cold rather than too hot...

Anyway, sorry Sunshine, hijacking your thread here!

[Sunshinegirl82]

I think the sleepyhead keeps them quite a bit warmer at night, Ds has definitely been cooler since I took him out of it. I think Ds runs fairly warm. I tried dressing him more warmly than the gro bag recommendations once in case he was waking because he was cold and I ended up having to change him completely at 10pm because he was drenched in sweat! I do always think his arms feel cold when I put him in short sleeves though so I tend to stick to the long sleeved vests unless it's very warm. Last night I was thinking I'd better get a 0.5 tog in soon!

Ds has always had a dummy and a month or so ago we introduced a sleepytot which is a cuddly toy that holds dummys in its paws. It's been a big hit! Makes it easier for him to find the dummy at night and I think he's got quite attached to the bunny itself. I'm hoping when the time comes to lose the dummy he can keep the bunny as a lovey. I think the gro company do completely breathable cuddly toys if you wanted to try and encourage an attachment to something mini?

Naps have been rubbish this pm! I left early for our trip to soft play (12.30) thinking he'd sleep in the car, drove him round for 45 mins, wide awake! Fell asleep in the car when we left at about 3.15, I'm sat on our drive now with him still sparko. I think I'll give him till 4.30!

[MiniMaxi]

Thanks for the cuddly toy info, I'll check it out.

I was thinking the same about 0.5 tog

DS had two long naps today:

90 mins in morning (with a half way break for milk) - between 9&11 ish
Nearly 2 hr straight through this afternoon - 2-4 ish

He was shattered by 6, ended up going to sleep at 7.30 as I didn't want him going to bed super early and waking even earlier!

Good luck tonight...!

[Sunshinegirl82]

We had a total nightmare tonight! He ended up sleeping 3.15 till 4.45. Tried putting him to bed at about 7.30 but got nowhere! He finally dropped off at 8.45! What's the betting he's still up at blimmin 5! Hope the good naps do the trick and you have a better night!

[MiniMaxi]

How was your night, Sunshine?

[Sunshinegirl82]

Written out a long post and it keeps losing it! Trying again using the desktop site!

[Sunshinegirl82]

Ok, mobile site is the problem!

I'd say last night was mixed! DH woke up coughing loads at 12.30 which woke Ds up but he went back down again fairly quickly. Then he woke for milk at 2.30 (not unusual). I heard him shout out at 3.30 but he settled himself quite quickly so I didn't go in. Up for the day at 5.45!

I took him up for a nap at 8.30 and he went down ok but woke after 30 mins. That didn't seem like anywhere near enough given the short night so I persevered with resettling and he's gone back down. I think I might need to give resettling more of a go when he has short naps. I always sort of figured he'd woken because he'd had enough but I think he might have woken after a short time because he was overtired.

How about you? Did the long naps make a difference?