We need your thoughts for a discussion with Talk 107 radio station in Edinburgh on....

[CatherineMumsnet]

The fact that Lothian buses have decided to ban prams on their buses if they are busy. See here

[CatherineMumsnet]

They're also interested in the discrimination against new mums if any of you have any thoughts?
Thanks

[Pruners]

Message withdrawn

[CatherineMumsnet]

I agree, I've been on the situation as a new parent trying to get my buggy on a very crowded bus (after I'd plucked up the courage to go that far from home with my LO) only to be told I was making the other passengers 'uncomfortable' because I took up so much room. So I had to get off and wait about half an hour for another one. Needless to say I avoided buses for a while!

[Flier]

From what I've heard, bus drivers seem to be making up the rules as they go along, I have heard of some mothers with prams being allowed onto buses on the outward journey and then being refused on their homeward journey - so they are effectively stuck in the middle of nowhere with no way of getting home. Where is the logic in that? I think Lothian Buses need a clear policy and this needs to be made very public as well as their bus drivers being made aware of it.
Consistency is what is required.

[expatinscotland]

It's just prams, not foldable buggies.

I used Lothian buses on a daily basis for 4 years and I for one support the ban on prams or any child carrier that can't be folded up for a chair user.

At the end of the day, a disabled person doesn't have the option of folding up their wheelchair and the law states that that space is for wheelchair users.

FWIW, I have seen people with big ol' f-off prams who don't want to get off the bus or even move if a chair user needs the space, leaving the bus driver in the position of a police - a dangerous position on some routes.

[ScummyMummy]

I think disabled passengers should always have priority but if there is no wheelchair user on board then I don't see why a pram shouldn't park up in the wheelchair space. Mums and tiny babies need to get out and about.

[JulesJules]

Outrageous! They are supposed to be providing a service to people. There are a lot more mothers with babies than there are people in wheelchairs wanting to use the bus ime, so it seems totally ridiculous to ban the mothers in case a wheelchair user wants to get on. I hate this assumption that it is OK to discriminate against mothers and babies. Like Sobernow, I would have been stuck in the house for years if I hadn't been able to take the DCs on the bus - I wouldn't have been able to take them to the baby clinic, or the Drs.

[expatinscotland]

IIRC, the sign does say the space is for a wheelchair user or disabled person, covering people who need aids to walk or have a guide dog.

Again, the ban is on PRAMS, not foldable buggies, if I read the original article (in the Evening News) correctly.

We're going back there next week, will be using the bus as I have a great deal of business near town centre, and DD2 still uses the buggy, but it does fold.

[MrsWeasley]

Disgusting. They will no doubt be moaning about the busy roads in a few months because people will not be messed around like this and will use their own transport.

Where I live the bus service is excellent always on time and very accommodating for pushchairs and mothers. It is very client centered. It is also well used and highly recommended.

[GordonBrownKickingHisHeels]

i agree with expat. there is nothing stopping folk getting a wee buggy for bus journeys or using a sling. obviously if you have just spent £800 on a pram that resembles an enormous photocopier you want to show it off, but that shouldn't be at the expense of a wheelchair user.

[expatinscotland]

Some of those prams are so huge, they really do block the aisle in the Lothian bus, a real hassle on routes like the no. 49 or no. 22, single deckers, in rush hour.

Also, my blind pal has nearly tripped over some that are so large they partially block the aisle, not to mention if someone has a stick or Zimmer frame.

[Uriel]

But what if your baby's asleep in the pushchair? You can't fold it up then.

Or are you supposed to wake up the baby, hold the baby in one arm and fold up the pushchair with the other?

[expatinscotland]

and the wifey named her bairn Oakley.

ffs, that should have been banned .

[expatinscotland]

Uriel, the article states:

'While parents with fold-up buggies are still allowed on ? on the understanding the buggies will be folded if a disabled passenger boards the bus ? traditional prams have been outlawed.'

[Whizzz]

It is a bit ridiculous what with all the enviro-info telling us to leave our cars at home!

[Uriel]

Yes, but it's not practical, is it?

Are the buses too small to make a space for both disabled people and prams/sleeping babies in pushchairs?

[catweazle]

They wonder why people with cars choose not to use public transport

[expatinscotland]

it's totally practical, uriel. just buy a cheap foldable buggy to use on bus journeys and save the pram for non-bus trips.

you don't have to fold it down unless a chair user wishes to board.

and yes, if you have space available for BOTH chair users AND f*ck off prams, then you lose lots of space for able-bodies passengers, and ridership in Edinburgh is relatively high.

[Uriel]

I remember having to do this with my late-walking, late-standing large baby. Think there were too many pushchairs on the bus already. I had to fold the pushchair up single-handedly while trying to stop her falling over.

That was my second and final bus trip.

[Uriel]

Never had a pram. Agree with you, expat, that folding a stroller would be ok, but folding the sturdy pushchair I had, with a baby (toddler?) who only stood when she was one, was a nightmare.

[Firepile]

I really think this is outrageous - what are non-driving mothers supposed to do?

Anybody fancy loading a weekly shop, plus folded baby vehicle, plus squirming baby onto the bus while passers by refuse to help? Or are we supposed to walk everywhere or use expensive taxis instead? Or not actually buy any groceries unless its online or a 5 minute walk down the road.

I travel to Edinburgh regularly. I have used a sling, but not when I am away from my home in Glasgow for 8 hours or more, and not once my son got too heavy...

This is not just about small babies either - as a bus user in Glasgow, I worry about my 2.5yo toddler falling off the bus or running into the road while I am trying to get a folded buggy on and off buggy inaccessible buses. It is horrendous.

I don't think people understand how stressful public transport with a baby or toddler is. Do we still believe that women with kids should be tied to their own homes?

[Miaou]

If I had to manage a baby, a folded pushchair, a toddler, and any shopping I had accumulated, I would be stuffed. I simply don't have enough hands, it would be physically impossible (and downright dangerous where the toddler was concerned). The stress of knowing that I may be able to make an outward journey but not a return one would be too much and I would never go out!

[Miaou]

Also - can you get fold-up buggies for newborns? I remember looking for one when I had ds1 but could only find them suitable from 6 months plus. Or would I be expected to stay at home for the first six months ?