Year 2 maths learning - for a Year 7 student ! ?

[Goldensmart]

Greetings all.....

Very miffed here, OK my girl is bright and able in her maths not a high flyer, has been in middle set for Yr 7. maths for the last 8 months.

Parents evening we asked and all was well, no concerns. Then randomly and abruptly our girl very recently is moved out of this set to the bottom, we heard about this through our girl over teatime. What is being taught in that set is in alignment with very basic adding up maths etc, Year 3/4 level !

Also, when our girl completes her work, she is denied doing additional study and told to listen and watch the others.

Really ! ?

Apart from her confidence being whacked, - our girl was also told there was not enough room for her in the class and then we find out new students had just joined and were placed in that middle group.....

I cant see how being in a bottom set at such like that is doing her any good whatsoever - we are not getting anyway where with the school either... they are very guarded in the decision making and revealing her assessment results.

Light on this would be lovely .....its just so depressing .......

[RedSkyAtNight]

How many sets? (as in, is it a big jump from middle to bottom - or just one set)

Does your daughter not know how she did in her assessments?
It's possible the school may have (e.g.) discovered that she has key gaps in her knowledge and this is the way of consolidating it. But I'd expect them to tell you that? What response have you had from them? Have you tried asking questions such as "what does she need to work on?" rather than "why have you moved her to the bottom set?"

[Ohyesiam]

Contact head of maths and tell them what you’ve just told us.

[sonnyboo]

Agree, ask the school, they must have a reason for moving her into a new set. It may help her fill in any missing gaps, or the speed of teaching is slower?

[cloudtree]

Not sure how anyone here can help you? You need to speak to the school.

[TheIsland]

What did the school say when you spoke to them about it?

[Goldensmart]

Thank you to all so far...... Yes had chats with 1 of the maths teacher out of 2, then Head of Maths and now it looks like its going to the Head of school..... There are 3 sets only ..... with the gap thing....an excuse was given that, "well because she was Home Educated for a short period prior to joining, there could be gaps missing". Well tbh she was at the top of her game then, having a 1:1 private maths tutor, boosted her and now she has been represented as hitting rock bottom over 8 months since being in state school.....when we go to the Head, we can be a bit more composed and measured in our queries.....

[RedSkyAtNight]

TBH top of one set and the bottom of the set above generally overlap, so you might be making a big fuss about nothing.

They say "could" be gaps missing - are there gaps? It could have taken the school a while to spot these as there may be topics that they have only just started working on at the end of the year. Why not google KS2 national curriculum for maths and see if you think your daughter has covered all the areas?

Having a maths tutor does not mean she will have covered all that she would have done in school. It may indeed have given a false picture of her abilities as many children do better with 1:1 support.

[noblegiraffe]

If a new student joins the school then they need to be put in an appropriate group for their ability based on the data provided to the school (probably SATs data). If there isn’t any room for them in a group then sometimes the teacher will be asked to move a student up/down from that group to make room, and these moves will usually be based on performance in assessments over the year to date.

How has your DD been performing compared to the other students in the middle group? I assume if she was home educated she didn’t sit SATs? If she is at the bottom of the group, then a move down is hard to argue against. However, in the group below she should still be presented with reasonable work, and extension work if she is finishing quickly, and if she is obviously out of place then the bottom set teacher should spot this.

I think you need to know why your DD was selected to move, and if it’s because she was at the bottom of the middle group, then you need assurances that she will not be left to ‘watch and listen to the others’ when she finishes early in the group below, and that her performance will be watched with a view to possibly moving back up if she is in the wrong group.

[MarchingFrogs]

For how long was your DD home educated - just for the latter part of year 6? However long it was for, was she completely secure in her maths up to the point of moving out of school? Since your DD was going to move back into school for year 7, did the tutor base their work on what your DD would have been learning in school (i.e. keeping her up with the content that the secondary school would expect to have been covered by new year 7s)?

[Goldensmart]

Thanks all and MarchingFrogs ..... well, we decided to move out just as Year 6 began..... so until Year 7, we were covering weak areas.....I understand what you are saying...... We have asked for assessment results from Sept last, which we are finding some resistance, and shall take a look at this to date...... as since then she been in that set to April this year... She is no nerd at maths but bright enough to do just fine.

[Plumsmith]

If she was home educated and didn’t sit SATs and you don’t know her assessment scores you can’t see how able she is compared to the other students in her set/year. Your idea of bright may be quite a way behind the expected level in year 7. The year 6 SATs year some awfully difficult topics in maths. Perhaps the school have identified that she isn’t as strong as they would like her to be in these areas and so have moved her down so she can build a solid foundation for the later years.

I wouldn’t worry too much what set she is in, I would be happy that she was in a place where the school think she is best suited and can where they can offer her the most support.

[Goldensmart]

Thank you all, great food for thought .....

We have had a data sheet back reflecting the assessments - though I will be asking for actual score results, particularly at the start of September last year....

They have suggested we get a private tutor in at home for her to catch up on in her weak areas.... ? !!

And they feel that she is in the best place !! ?

I disagree, Year 3/4 maths is inappropriate and a huge downgrade.

:(

[noblegiraffe]

What exactly have they been doing in class? It may be entirely appropriate.

What do her data sheets say about assessment levels?

[JustRichmal]

Keep telling her she can do maths, in spite of what the school thinks. The ability to do maths depends so much on the belief you can.
Are they actually given tests at the end of the year? If they are, get her to do some at home so she will be learning what the higher set are doing. If it is teacher assessment only, what can I say, you are stuffed. It is your word against theirs.
I went through years of arguing with schools about what dd's levels were and, eventually, in year 5 and 6, I chose to home educate.
If she was in the right group for her and nothing changed but more students joining the school, why should it then have become the wrong group?
Good luck.

[sashh]

I disagree, Year 3/4 maths is inappropriate and a huge downgrade.

It is also the foundation for year 5 -11.

To be honest if she has had 1:1 tutoring to get her in to set 2 then it sin't a surprise she has gone down a set.

[Goldensmart]

Hmmm... thank you JustRichmal and sashh.... I am going to put something in writing to the head of maths and ask questions now, as her dad has been dealing directly with him, I will check on those points you made - helpful.....

[Snowysky20009]

Could it be that having 1:1 tutoring helped her to get into the middle
Set, but now she hasn't that 1:1 she is struggling to keep up with the class?

I was in top set maths all through school. I begged and pleaded to be moved down from year 9, but was told no as I was capable. I really really struggled. It knocked my confidence so much that others flew through papers and I would look at questions not knowing where to start.

[Goldensmart]

Indeed, gotcha .

Well, her confidence has been whacked big time - sitting doing basic addition and plotting graphs.

Of course she needs to be where she is best set, but I am struggling to see how being in this low set is doing her any good.

I am worried she is going to fall behind with everything and where she ought be at her stage.

[RedSkyAtNight]

If there are only 3 sets it seems odd that the whole of the bottom set (which is 33% of the ability range) are doing what you describe as Y3/4 work. Unless this school has a particular high proportion of low achievers.

Personally I would not worry about the set issue (which is dependent on the ability of other children as well as her own), but about her getting work that is appropriate for her ability. If she finds the class work easier, there should be some extension work for her to do.
It's also worth noting that maths is often taught (particularly in Y7) be recapping what the teachers expect the DC to already know - and they then build on that. Is she really sitting and doing simple addition in every single class- I find that very hard to believe!

[noblegiraffe]

What sort of plotting graphs? That type of work can get pretty difficult so the topic itself isn’t enough to say it’s too easy.

[sashh]

Goldensmart

I said on another thread (GCSE revision) that maths is like playing sport, you have to practice the basics as well as the more complex stuff.

[rainingcatsanddog]

I'd personally be finding out where her gaps are then filling those in so she's ready to move up to middle set in the future.

I have a son in y7 and he's not done much new stuff this year. There's been a lot of consolidation because maths teaching varies in different primary schools and it doesn't take long to forget stuff practiced in y6. The class work often has 3 difficulties (they call it bronze, silver, gold) because the whole class obviously isn't at exactly the same level.

[paddlingwhenIshouldbeworking]

You need far more detailed info on what she can and can't do before saying she's 'bright enough to do fine'..that's a vague statement.

You need to look at all the Maths topics and see if she is confident at them.

If you don't feel the school are giving enough information, then at a basic level you could get some Bond maths books and work through the years...so start with 5 papers from the end of the 8-9 book and work upwards and see how she performs and where the gaps are.

[Goldensmart]

Brill info thank you......

Well, it all came to a head today....

I asked the head of maths for some answers and got a reply from the head of school instead and one that was a bit of a brush off, apparently I am a demanding and unsatisfied parent! lol

I just asked what was being taught in the lesson, what level the class was at, what were they doing to build on her weak areas and for actual test results.

There it is.

[CalF123]

I'd be marching in there first thing tomorrow and not leaving until they moved her back.