11+ Results - Why Don't Independent Schools Release Scores?

[Lentils]

Just wondering why it is that independents don't ever release the results of your child's exams? Anyone know? Or so some give you results and some don't?

[noitsnotteatimeyet]

Generally because they’re not just going by the test results, they’ll also be looking at the interview, previous school’s report, any extra-curricular stuff a child can bring to the school, some will give siblings priority others give weight to a family connection to the school etc etc etc

[Lentils]

Yes, I understand that, but it just seems strange that they don't just tell you the score? Loads of children / parents have worked very hard to prepare for the tests seems a bit anticlimactic to just get a pass / didn't pass / qualified for scholarship...

[noitsnotteatimeyet]

They’d be opening themselves to all kinds of grief if they did though ... as the ‘pass’ mark will vary from child to child. The tests themselves are purely a means to an end so in that case a yes/no/scholarship answer is all you need surely? No one will ever ask your child what mark they got in an 11+ test ...

[Firefox1066]

In my opinion, there's enough parental neurosis in the 11+ process as it is and publishing results would only make it worse!!

But in all seriousness, as pp have stated, the exams are merely a hurdle and not a result, with the school taking into account a host of other factors before deciding whether to offer a place and indeed what type of offer.

[jaimelannistersgoldenhand]

Publishing scores will increase hysteria.

If Sam got 60% in the 11+ maths, why is he in a higher set than my son who got 75%?

If 70% was enough for a place year why has my child who got 70% this year not got a place?

Why was the passmark 70% last year but 60% this year? Is the school going downhill and attracting less intelligent kids?
Etc

[jaimelannistersgoldenhand]

I can imagine lots of demands for remarks when a child narrowly misses the pass mark too. Too much hassle potential.

[Lentils]

But does that happen at grammars? They all post results, no one seems that hepped up about it?

[NoStraightEdges]

Grammars in our area only publish certain results. They give the minimum mark required to apply for the school and the lowest pass mark that gained entry the year before on offers day. However, that doesn't account for the waiting list scores that get in. The 11+ forum collate those unofficially.

Do the independents not even do that?

[LIZS]

Unlike state 11+ the results are based not only on exam attainment but take into account interview, references, extra curricular etc. So the exam scores are only one aspect of any decision to offer.

[Lentils]

Yes, that's fine and understandable and I get that it's one part of the admissions puzzle, but really don't see why the process has to be so opaque. At the end of the day, they can let in whom they choose, they are private after all, but it would go a long way to parents and children who have spent time, effort and money preparing for them.

[Firefox1066]

Lentils What do you think knowing the actual mark would give you?

I'm at the opposite end of the spectrum. I don't give a fig as to what the marks were, just want to know the outcome!

[LIZS]

If you don't get in you can ask for feedback as to whether it is worth reapplying at another entry point but how would knowing the exam scores in isolation be of any real help.

[Lentils]

It just feels like such an anti-climax! Also I'd just like to know how effective our prep was basically - dd went to a state school, where it was basically frowned upon to apply to private. Friend of mine whose dd went private said they prep for entrance exams starting in year 5 and really all of first term year 6. So, it would be nice to know how effective our prep was for future reference! NoStraightEdges - no, they don't usually. One school for my older dd told us where she fell in percentile terms, but no specific marks.

[Needmoresleep]

If they released scores they would be under pressure to take kids who achieved high scores. And parents/schools would be under pressure to prep/tutor kids so that they achieved these high scores. Tutoring for some Grammar schools can be intensive starts impossibly early and actually works against a young child achieving a broader education.

Selective independent schools are looking for potential, rather than who is VR/nonVR practiced at 11+. They will want to give weight to curiosity, engagement and wider interests. They may also want a mix, consistent with the culture of the school, so some quieter children and some more alpha ones. They will want to allow for differences in preparation. They also have the ability to take the "one-sided" child. So DD was dyslexic and hopeless at English but good at maths. Some classmates were arty or musical but not so strong at science. Grammar schools in contrast, using raw scores cannot differentiate.

I understand that very selective London private schools choose to be opaque because there is an increasing trend of prospective parents engaging lawyers if they are not happy with a school's decision. This means that the school has to be in a position to justify decisions. Publishing internal criteria in advance would cause unwelcome bias, and reduce the independence of a schools' decision making.

[Lentils]

I completely understand what goes into the admissions process - I understand they are looking for mix, culture etc., but I don't see how you can't have that and release results. Private schools can't be sued because they haven't let someone in (I think!). I know of at least one very clever friend of my older dd's who did not make it past the interview. So, the interview is there for a reason independent of exam results.

[Needmoresleep]

"Private schools can't be sued because they haven't let someone in (I think!)."

Admissions would be governed by the Equalities Act 2010 surely. Schools will need criteria. Otherwise it could be construed as discrimination. What good would it do for a child to be told that they had aced exams, and then still did not get a place. The implication is that there is something wrong with their personality. Which would upset an average 10 year old. And the playground/pick up rivalry in Yr 6 is more than enough, without a kid going into interview knowing they had borderline marks when the bright kid in the class has boasted that they were well into the 90's on each paper so certain to get a place.

Why would you want them, other than for bragging rights?

[lilybookins]

I think some do but only when they know they are probably going to offer your child because their score is pretty good - at one (interview with me) I was told my DD's marks (in the percentage range) My friend was told her son's actual percentage scores in all four of his papers but he was offered a scholarship..I think there's some sense in it as what if once the children were in the school they all told each other their scores and it all became a bit competitive with some kids not feeling 'as good' as others. And I do get the bit about not telling scores if your child hasn't got in - that opens a whole can of worms and doesn't tell the whole story anyway.

[Hoppinggreen]

When dd did the scholarship exam for her Indie we got a detailed breakdown of her performance in each part of the test, where she ranked and feedback on her interview

[Lentils]

All that already happens REGARDLESS of getting hold of the actual exam scores! If you fail to get beyond the interview how else to interpret but to put it down to personality? I think if you get an offer schools should just let you know if you want to know - I've only brought this all up because we got an interview letter that explicitly stated they don't divulge and that got me thinking WHY and wouldn't it actually be nice to know?

[nickyplustwo]

In the state 11+ system, the primary school informs the parent of the child's scores in maths, comprehension, VR and NVR. You know the overall pass threshold and the individual components threshold as they're published. It's interesting for about 5 minutes. No-one talks to each other about the scores because it's a bit sensitive either way. It is only useful if you are very close and want to appeal or if you need a certain pass mark to go to a super-selective grammar. These are no-quibble hard measures; I can imagine if there were 'softer' criteria like interviews and school recommendations, publishing 'scores' might be contentious.

[AnotherNewt]

Some schools will give feedback to unsuccessful candidates.

Have you actually asked?

Also, as some schools interview all candidates, then not receiving an offer does not necessarily mean flunked interview. But even for those who do interview only some of their candidates, not receiving an offer could mean all sorts of things, especially for a coed (not just it being out down to personality in any single sense).

[NoStraightEdges]

nickyplustwo that's not how our state grammars do it. The primary school have nothing to do with it at all-they don't even know which child has sat the exam.

We got a letter with our sons score and the minimum score for applying and each schools lowest offer score on offers day the previous year.

[mastertomsmum]

Regarding whether a prep school will be very much help with preparing for entrance tests, I'd say that was very area specific.

Here we have some traditional Preps - ie through to Yr 8 and one school that calls itself a Prep School but only goes to Yr 6. This school is a feeder to one of the 2 former grant maintained Grammar schools in the city. The feeder school to the other one styles itself a Junior school.

Those at traditional Prep schools do go on to the former grant maintained school but are encouraged to take Yr 9 entry.

As far as I know the traditional Prep schools don't prepare or help students with working towards the entrance exams either in the 11+ schools or the 13+ schools.

At 11+, many kids come in from Primary school.

Regarding knowing results, as others have said the sibling priority plays a part as does the reference and interview. 11+ schools here that used to be grammar are quite interested in prospective SATs results. The 2 boarding schools that take some kids from 11 but most from 13 up are not interested in SATs results.

[Lentils]

I haven't asked this particular school - (dd did get through to the interview stage). I will ask though - sorry I am just enormously curious! Part of the curiosity comes from my experience with my older dd - she is at a selective school and we were super pleased when she got in. But to be honest was surprised at the "quality" of students at the school. They don't seem that massively brighter than the top set of her state primary...just better prepared and some are still being tutored. DD sat grammars so yes, I liked the fact that you knew where you stood academically. All the soft measures - it's a bit like a job interview - some people fit, some don't, and that's all fine.

[Thehogfather]

In addition to everything already said, I think you'd also get false representation, especially at an independent that is genuinely looking for ability and the right fit over pure achievement. If people start posting on the Internet about how anon. private is so superselective that dear Tarquinius didn't get in with a score of 95%, it's going to put a lot of people off applying. Because that same parent won't post or necessarily know that Tarquinius didn't get in because he's an obnoxious brat, and the school quickly picked up on the fact he's average ability wise but has been coached & hothoused to perform well in the exam since reception age.

Likewise if Jane's parents post about how she got a place with 60%, the school will have loads of pointless applications from similar candidates. Even though Jane is far higher ability than her results suggest, but she had exceptional circumstances to explain the discrepancy and absolutely shone at interview. The parents aren't going to say they are both uneducated and a bit clueless and Jane attended an awful, failing primary and sat the exam on the recommendation of a third party, or that Jane only learnt English two years ago, or has spent years in hospital etc.

Plus it would be unofficial ranking. Everyone locally knows that dc who are offered places at A are also offered places at B. But not always vice versa, B just isn't as selective. And the exam results reflect this, but it's still a well respected academically selective school. If it became common knowledge it took dc with eg 20% lower scores, its reputation would plummet.