Why do guys deny their infidelity?!??

[itislatekidsupin3hrs]

When confronting H, he vehemently denied having an affair despite being caught out in his lies about where he's been going. He said it's not what I think and he's not going to talk about it. With a parting shot of 'I am not having an affair'.
Is it because he doesn't want adultery to be cited when we divorce? I don't really care about his shitty affair but it's so bizarre he won't just admit and we move on. Yeah I know it won't change anything but it riles me up so much that he's still lying. To my face. And being outraged by me chucking him out!!!

[Adora10]

He doesn't care about your feelings or opinions so he continues to lie, it's easier for him that way, he sounds lovely not!

[itislatekidsupin3hrs]

He is really horrible. Twisted. In our confrontation he was spitting bile and blaming everything on me, how I'm deluded, insane, critical, an incompetent mother. Oh and his last words - he can play dirty too and he's going to go for the house!

[noego]

Women to OP.

[crookedpinky]

You spoilt his little game. He is selfish and doesn't want to be the bad guy - after all he wants to have an attractive set up for the next lucky lady, hence the dirty fight for assets and kudos.

Let your solicitor have free rein at him, don't interact with him yourself until it's over.

[TheNaze73]

If you have hard concrete evidence, his denials mean the square root of fuck all.

All people when under pressure, lie to minimise the damage.

[Offred]

He's DARVOing you.

Deny
Attack
then Reverse Victim and Offender

The idea is this will help him avoid the consequences of his choices by making you feel bad about yourself instead of him.

You already know he is a liar, you need to try really hard to emotionally detach and just remember that everything that comes out of his mouth is self serving.

[itislatekidsupin3hrs]

I've noticed in the last few confrontations (before he was outed) he's started to accuse ME of his deplorable traits, i.e. He tells me I interrupt him so he can't talk (this is his signature trait), i flip my opinions to win the argument (he does this), I'm lazy (which is ridiculous cos I stay up to do most of the chores and he is literally the laziest person I know) one recurring argument we had was me still being in my dressing gown, getting kids ready and making sandwiches for our day out. He used to really gripe and criticise me for not being changed even though I was rushing around getting everyone ready. While he was standing there bored and not helping. Sorry. I know it's not very helpful to vent about past events and I should be ecstatic that he's gone (I SO am) but there's a lot of anger and plain bafflement at his behaviour.

[Offred]

Yes I had that one too. It was ridiculous.

One time he drove me to a car park near the beach at night in a storm specifically with the intention of listing all my faults and telling me how crazy and abusive I was. Whenever there was silence I tried to reply and he would shout 'you are interrupting me I am quiet because I am thinking' so that I had to just sit there in silence waiting for the next barrage. When he had finished he drove me home.

[Offred]

I only realised I didn't interrupt him (but he interrupted me all the time) when we were on holiday with his family and I was discussing (in agreement) with his brother. He sat down at the table, started disagreeing, cut me off mid sentence then started telling me I was interrupting him when I carried on talking. He got really angry at me, I said 'but you interrupted me when I was having a discussion with your brother that you weren't even involved in!' He started getting angry saying 'no I didn't, you always interrupt me!' And his brother just quietly said 'well, you did interrupt offred actually' I excused myself quietly with relief and left them to argue.

[Offred]

In his mind this was how I 'always' embarrassed him in front of his family and friends.

[noego]

Aaahh the guilt transference. That's the one. I've never heard it called DARVOing.

[itislatekidsupin3hrs]

Offred- oh my God. They are cut from the same cloth. He's says I'm the one who is abusing him, with my rages. I must say he has been clever enough to stay moderate/calm in front of his/my family whereas I have lost it in front of them on more than one occasion. Once he was shouting at me relentlessly about something that I didn't know the answer of and I just exploded. his family thought I was a nutter. He likes to insinuate I'm losing it and tried to tell MY family that I'm an unfit mother. They told him that is utter rubbish and refused to listen. In recent years, I've always felt that he really detests me on some level and there's a lot of anger there. I'm not sure why? He's been trying to control me from the start and I suppose when I fight him on this, the anger comes out. Yet he used to get so panicky at the mere suggestion of separation. I tried to break up with him once (before DC) and he gave me such a sob story about how I'm the nicest person he's ever met and he can tell I'm pulling away and he's sorry that it's not working but hopes we can remain friends. Obviously I was a sucker for that. The only other time he pulled the contrite stunt was when I flipped out over an emotional affair that I discovered when I was freshly engaged and 6mths pregnant. Sometimes I wonder how the hell did I get sucked into all this?!?

[PopeMortificado]

Why do guys deny their infidelity?!??

Because unless you have physically seen them in the act, they are banking on the fact you don't want it to be true letting you believe their lies.

"OW is lying"
"OW has always wanted me."
"She came on to me but I turned her down and now she's jealous"
"You are crazy"
"It only happened once and it was just a kiss."

It's no different from how children respond when they are caught having eaten all the chocolate or tied up the puppy. "It wasn't me". And hope for the best.

In most cases (as many threads show here) lying works. Witness numerous threads of the "he says he didn't sleep with her and I believe him" or "he says she's a crazy ex who is obsessed with him and I believe him" variety.

[Offred]

It's abuse. That's why it is so scarily similar.

The only thing DARVO doesn't mention is the part afterwards where they become all consumingly contrite (whilst still avoiding responsibility) and then make the whole thing about their feelings (how upset and sorry they are) leaving you (again) with no room to exist.

It's not you he hates, he treats you like he hates you because he hates women generally.

[Offred]

(I sought therapy and had CBT centred on 'getting me to see reality' after that time in the car park. Therapy centred on me dealing with my 'crazy' jealousy and 'unreasonable anxiety' that he was cheating on me with specific coworker. Years later 'oh yes I did but I am not anymore' 'why are you always bringing this up?' 'I've said sorry what more do you want? blood?!?!')

[Offred]

(The CBT tasks even included hanging out with him and her so I could 'see' I wasn't being rational... )

[Offred]

I had to get the police involved eventually to get away because he would turn up to my house even if I told him I never wanted to see him again. It's been over for 6 months now.

He's been arrested. Probably won't be charged, I don't know, the investigation is still ongoing but him being arrested is probably enough. When I think back the relationship is punctuated by moments of clarity like the one with his brother I mentioned and taking action by going to the police has helped me beyond measure, both in getting away and in bringing me back into the real reality that he was horrendously abusive.

[Offred]

You won't get anywhere trying to get your 'why?' Questions answered by him. You need to get heavily involved in self care - putting all the love you gave to him into you.

[fannycraddock72]

I don't think it's a gender thing, more a character thing. I know many women who have denied having an affair and turned into vicious and angry, blame-shifting creatures. But agree its probably a higher ratio of men. It's just people with a broken moral compass, shitty values, selfish and entitled.

He's displaying all the same characteristics as most people who get caught cheating, manipulation, gas-lighting, projection, rage etc...

He's got an image to uphold and you've called him out, people who cheat wear a mask to make them look good. You've pulled that mask off and exposed who he really is, he doesn't want people to know what a disordered, selfish twat he is..so he takes that out on you.

[fannycraddock72]

Cheating is also a narcissistic act, he sounds like he has some pretty strong narcissistic traits or at worst a full blown 'Narcissistic personality disorder'.

"He's says I'm the one who is abusing him, with my rages."

This is classic projection. He's projecting his own faults onto you...read this...

blog.melanietoniaevans.com/how-the-narcissist-projects-hisher-behaviour-onto-you/

[itislatekidsupin3hrs]

Forgive me if this sounds like I'm overthinking things, but do you find that if you are on the receiving end of an EA partner, you start acting in ways that can be construed as secondary EA? By that I mean I veer between believing what he projects onto me (i.e. Am I abusive?) to thinking what rubbish, I am NOT...
Example. Because of his contradictory nature, I used to end up being very disengaged. Keeping all exchanges very detached This used to annoy him because he really enjoyed locking horns with me. One of the signs of EA is ignoring your spouse which he regularly accused me of.
Example 2. I've now caught him out twice engaging in affairs, one Emotional, one almost certainly sexual. This required lots of digging in his private accounts. The first was discovered by accident and the second was from really intensive rooting around because I suspected it from his furtive behaviour. A lot of EA flags warn against controlling behaviours like going through their things.
Not to mention the number of times I've blown up at him because of the way he used to have a go at me. He loves citing these nuclear moments to me and whoever. I know the logical side of me is saying these are reactions to abusive behaviours but I can't help thinking when H reads a generic EA points list, all he's going to think is that it sounds like me. In our last row I accused him of years of EA and he looked baffled so I told him to look it up.

[Offred]

Yes, being abused can lead the victim to develop their own toxic behaviours, this is very common. The way to understand whether you are reacting to abuse by developing your own pathological behaviours is to follow the power. Who benefits from all of the behaviours?

My x used to throw in my face how I 'always' embarrassed him in public because he was being really infantile and sexist in the pub and when I went to the bar I got harassed by leering men so when I sat back down and he was still being awful I overreacted and embarrassed him. I overreacted, it was embarrassing for him but he threw it in my face all the time and despite the numerous times he had completely humiliated me in public when all I was doing was supporting him at things he didn't really want to do I was the one who made it so that 'we can't do anything with anyone else'.

[Offred]

He would beg me to come to work social events then ignore me, lie to me to get away from me and follow his OW around in front of me, leaving me alone and humiliated in front of ppl I didn't know frequently (and for 2 years). I was 'crazy and jealous and projecting my past onto him' if I ever got upset.

[Offred]

He did this for two years until I just quietly decided not to do anything with other people with him.

He'd also frequently become aggressive and bullish with my family and friends, bully people who were meant to be his friends or service workers, totally dominate conversations so I would not get to speak... but I was the one who was 'embarrassing'.

[Offred]

If I spoke he'd often belittle me or sneer and patronise me, mimic what I was saying, exaggerate my point to ridiculous proportions so I looked like an idiot...

He left me feeling awful but when I look back the worst things I ever did to him in four years were that one time when I overreacted and when I ran away to the toilet and hid having a panic attack because he was angry that I didn't agree that the ched Evans petition was stupid.