Why lie?

[sassymuffin]

I'm in turmoil at the moment over a stupid lie that DP has told me and it has now spiralled into a possible break up situation.

DP and I have been together for 12 years, had our ups and downs but mainly had issues with his dishonesty - he got into debt years ago, he covered it up until we nearly lost everything and he even stole off me. I realise debt can take over peoples lives and with the proviso he got help and went into a debt management scheme we muddled through.

The fact he had lied albeit to protect me hurt terribly but we moved forward with the condition of no more lies. Over the years we have had our ups and downs but lately I thought we where in a really good place.

DP has overall responsibility for a foreign company and is in charge of day to day issues. I went to help out in his office recently and was working with his secretary she is a really nice chatty person and said to me oh you should come on the company corporate hospitality day, it is really fun and we have a right laugh partying, drinking, dancing and the hotel is great. I know DP organises an event each year with customers which culminates with a dinner, free drinks at pubs and hotel stay. I went many years ago but he moved the event for costing and location reasons so have not been since.

It turns out for the past two years he has secretly invited his secretary along to the daytime and the evening entertainment and also the hotel stay. It is just her and 15 male customers. Nobody else from his office attends and he has never mentioned her being there. I confronted DP and asked why he deliberately hadn't mentioned her attending and he looked me straight in the face and lied saying she only attended the daytime activity.

I really do not think cheating is an issue here but it is the fact he kept it a secret. He travels with all the office abroad to the firms Christmas party every year, whenever DP used to make sarcastic comments about close relationships with ex male colleagues I used to tell him to shut up as he gets on great with his secretary and goes away each year to the office party so he cant moan if I go out for a meal with a group of male and female work friends at Christmas too. He calls this nagging which if that is what it is then I suppose I am guilty of it.

Anyway when at home we had an almighty row over his blatant deception and further lies when caught out. This poor woman has done nothing wrong but chat to me about something she already thought I was aware of. He then admitted he never thought I would find out and he would of continued to take her if none of this came to light. His reasoning is that he wanted to avoid earache with my nagging if he admitted to taking her. It has come to light that two years ago a customer dropped out of the event at short notice so he invited her along after she suggested she would like to go when he mentioned the hotel was already booked, he then made the decision to deliberately not tell me.

He always comes home and shows me the photos of the event that I now now she takes and tells me how successful the break was. He clearly must carefully edit out any with her in them.

Why the hell would any sane person keep this a secret? Why not tell me about her going? Surely he knew the shit would hit the fan if I ever found out he had lied? Why tell an even bigger lie when found out? (that was the worst part of it for me). He thinks she should go as she helps organise it which is fair enough but I think he should of at least told me he would be taking her along. Thousands of men and women work away together day in day out and have fantastic platonic working relationships but surely their partners know about this? I imagine his secretary would be really uncomfortable to find out about all these lies.

He has made the whole thing look sordid and I know in my heart it wasn't as 15 other people where there, but I cant get past the lies about it being a boys only event then lying again when confronted then admitting he would of happily continued with the lie going forward.

Sorry for the essay but didn't want to drip feed. Any advice appreciated, including telling me to get a grip.

[VimFuego101]

No grip-offering here. I would feel exactly the same way you do.

[seven201]

Hmmm I don't know really. Clearly he shouldn't have lied to you and there was no need to but other than that it's not that bad. He knows how you feel about lying. Did he just suddenly lie eg you asked a question and he just automatically lied and then didn't feel he could go back on it? It's up to you how you feel about it but to me it doesn't sound horrendous. What is his reaction when you explain how deceived you feel? If he realises he's been a dick then I'd be ok I think. Do ask him if there's anything else he needs to tell you.

[sassymuffin]

seven After having the conversation with his secretary about what a great time she has I waited until I was alone with DP then asked him Why he had never told me that his secretary goes away with him to his event? He replied "she only comes to the day time". I then said I knew that was a lie as she had told me she went to it all and had told me about the great time they all have partying afterwards and the nice hotel.

After work (after quietly simmering all day) I asked him again and I fully admit I did ask angrily ask what the hell was going on? He said he decided not to tell me because he wanted an easy life and couldn't be doing with me giving him earache over his choice to take her. When I asked why his first response had been to lie to my face about he being there for just the daytime he said he didn't know why he had said that.

At first he thought I was totally over reacting to be upset. He said he hadn't lied at all originally as he just didn't tell me she was going. I told him I didn't suspect any funny business but to hide it to for two years was not on. I explained that it was the fact he didn't tell me from when he starts planning it every March, to when I phone him up to see how the day has gone during the day and then coming home afterwards and telling me all about the day and evening and showing me the photographs (that he said had been taken by him and a random golfer). He then purposely gives me a version of events where he omits any mention of her and I feel that makes it a lie.

I iron all the corporate tops for the day and he even made up a fictitious customer name when counting them out.

I was so hurt I slept in the spare room and he then realised how much it had upset me and he was sorry and he realised he had been an idiot.

[sassymuffin]

I also asked if there was anything else I needed to know and DP replied no and if I was suggesting anything untoward I was out of order as she is a young woman in her early twenties and to stop being disgusting.

[Isetan]

He lies to protect himself, to avoid having his point of view challenged and disrespecting you, in his mind, is a justifiable means to that end. It's going to take a lot more than sleeping in the spare room to challenge that mindset, just look how quickly he tried to deflect the blame on to you. Given his history of self interest when it comes to telling the truth, it's unlikely (and I'm not talking about affairs) that this is the last of his lies.

Where do you go from here? It depends entirely on how important the truth is to you and how far you're willing to go in pursuit of it. This is who he is and nothing you've written gives any indication that he wants to change or even cares enough to change.

[Horsemad]

I would be livid, it's lying by omission.

[AnyFucker]

Stop trying to convince him (and yourself) that your husband is an habitual liar

He is

He only stops lying when you find out. I would wonder that he gets some kind of perverse pleasure out of hoodwinking you. He stood by while you ironed the clothes for the trip and he used a fictional (presumably male) name for his secretary ? Hugely piss taking.

I disagree that he lies as a knee jerk response for an easy life. This scenario looks like a step by step planned course of deception.

There will be other things you are being lied to about.

[Cheapthrills]

So does the whole office go together or does he travel abroad just with her? Is he taking her rather than you or would you not be invited anyway?

I am trying to imagine the set-up. On the face of it it doesn't seem to be an issue if you don't suspect he is attracted to her. However the lying even by omission is not on and making up a name for her is downright deceitful.

[sassymuffin]

AF I must stand corrected about the shirts, I assumed that everyone wore them as he assigned a customer name to each shirt. I have asked him this morning and apparently and to clarify she was the only one to not wear one as she was not taking part in the event. She only attended the morning part of the event to help with breakfast then to take photographs, she then went back to the hotel to relax then got ready for the evening.

Cheap The whole office go abroad for the Christmas party, partners are not invited as it would be too expensive and I totally understand that. I totally got the wrong end of the stick regarding the shirts.

[AnyFucker]

It still doesn't make it OK about the rest of it though x

[sassymuffin]

I know, the fact he admitted deliberately hiding her attendance and the fact he wanted to keep doing this every year going forward really hurts.

It is such a stupid thing to do when it was all innocent and there was nothing to hide. I cant help but lose my trust in him when the first thing he did when questioned was to tell another lie!

[AnyFucker]

That is a perfectly logical reaction to being lied to.

[QuietAngel81]

Hmmmm, this is a tricky one to answer and advise you about. I too have been lied to in the past and have major trust issues because of such.

The lies I had against me were much worse than what you have detailed, however, I understand a lie is a lie, no matter to what degree...

I am not siding with your DP at all, he should not have done what he did, end of, and I too would be annoyed with him, but I do worry that something like this would cause a possible break up. Yes, he lied, and you have said yourself that cheating is not the issue, I believe that too because if he had have cheated, then this girl would not have told you about her being at the event, and your DP would have made sure of covering his tracks before you went to work their too. He obviously forgot he hadn't informed you about her presence, slipped up there didn't he???

I don't doubt for one minute that a lot of people omit certain details about time at work or nights out with friends to their partner, over the fear of an argument, that is something I have witnessed myself for years, with both sex's. Maybe your DP just thought it was easier, as he knew there was nothing in it, and better for you not to know.
If you had have known, think about the arguments and feelings that could have arose from the knowing running up to the events. I know myself, I would have felt worse knowing she was going, I would not have rested all the time he was away.

Another person asked you if he apologised etc, I believe if he is truly sorry and has shown real emotion with this, you should not hold it against him and try your best to move on Hun. There are worse situations to be in, trust me, been there lots of times.

12 years is a long time to be with one person, if you are in a good place, you need to look deep and if you truly love him Hun, you will be able to forgive him and move forward past this. Every relationship has its ups and downs, just make sure the ups outweigh the downs... We are not perfect, we all make mistakes, don't hold this against him.
Hope things work out & good luck..

[sassymuffin]

Thanks for your response Quiet yes I agree that there are far far worse situations to be in. I do think he is genuinely sorry but that is possibly because he was found out and he wanted her to continue going without me knowing.

The ridiculous thing is I would of had no issue at all with knowing she was attending the day and even the meal in the evening. As DP said she helps to arrange it. I think it is odd no other workers attend but accept overall it is a thank you to customers not staff. I will admit I would of had a cats bum face about her staying over at the hotel as the event is only 30 minutes away from her home, far closer than the hour and a half that we live away from the hotel. All the customers travel from all over the U.K. which is why a hotel is offered as part of the event.

[QuietAngel81]

Yvw hun, I do understand, my mind would be racing with all sorts of thoughts. We can't control where our head takes us, that's the norm isn't it.
He has to understand your hurting right now, explain this to him.
Just sit down and talk with him, write things down if that is difficult for you.
He needs to realise that this will take you time and it feels like your right back at where you were with the trust. If he loves you, he will understand.

My ex cheated on me, several times, however, I do not see it as a negative anymore, as it has made my current relationship stronger, because I am stronger.
I learned from things in the past, I looked at what I could have done too & how I could have avoided such situations.. I'm not perfect, however, over the years I have learned to see the world in a different light, especially those of the opposite sex.... We will never understand each other. 😂

[RunRabbitRunRabbit]

I wonder what else don't you know about?

After all, even now he says it is fine to tell you elaborate lies to avoid any potential disapproval.

Do you see the all the bank accounts now, after that debt trouble?

[Heavens2Betsy]

My old boss did this. There was an annual conference at a swanky golf club which I helped organise every year. It involved an overnight stay and evening entertainment and I always attended (I was his PA)
The third year I went his son had a car accident and his wife called the office to ask me the hotel number as she couldn't get through to his blackberry.... She was horrified to find out I was there as he had never told her I went too. I'd assumed she knew. I was mortified.
Absolutely no funny business went on at all but I felt so bad for her and I even felt guilty even though I'd done nothing wrong.
I never found out why he hadn't told her but it did serious damage to their marriage for nothing!

[SandyY2K]

Why does he think you would have had an issue with her going?
Is it because he would have an issue if it was the other way round?

I really hate such unecessary lies, because it seems like he's hiding something, otherwise why lie.


Have you expressed concern over women and him in the past? Or any little jealousy issues?

This lie on top of all the debt issues and stealing would really have me fuming.

Do you have any children together ?

I hope she can continue to attend the events anyway.

[sassymuffin]

Run Yes we have transparency with money now that was a requirement that I demanded

Heavens Scarily identical situation minus the accident, sorry you were put in that situation.

Sandy I have never ever had trust issues around his fidelity at all, we both go away separately with friends every year. We have children by our previous partners not together, however he has raised my children as his own in every way. I am sure she will continue to go in the future, as she has done nothing wrong.

[RivieraKid]

She was horrified to find out I was there as he had never told her I went too. I'd assumed she knew. I was mortified.

Ouch! Did it do any damage to your working relationship as well heavens? Curious as to whether or not he was defensive and awkward after that I guess, like he'd been 'caught out' even though you were innocent.

[Heavens2Betsy]

It did a bit - caused a few office rumours to circulate!
I went on maternity leave a few months later and never returned which was a blessing really.
To this day I could never understand why he lied!

[BitterAndOnlySlightlyTwisted]

He is naturally duplicitous, it comes easily to him. This is just one lie you have found out about. I suspect there are others, and some are rather more serious than a clear and very calculated omission.

Sorry, but this arse would have been out the door the very moment I discovered that he'd stolen from me. That is something I could never get back from but you are obviously far more forgiving than I.

[DeathStare]

So he says he lied because you'd have given him a hard time if you knew the truth. If you're honest with yourself, would you have given him a hard time? Would you have suspected that more was going on? There are parts of your post that suggest you might have.

His business decisions are none of your business and he needs to be able to make those without worrying about whether you would give him a hard time. I'm not for a minute condoning him lying - he should have handled this better - but if he felt he was going to have justify and explain to you his decision to take her and if he felt it was going to tension, I can understand his lie. Again, I'm not condoning it but I can understand it.

I also don't think that two lies in 12 years makes him a serial liar.

[sassymuffin]

Death I honestly would of not given him a hard time at all, maybe pulled a face at the hotel as it is not far from her home. I definitely have never suspected anything has gone on in any way shape or form, it was the lie when I asked him why he had deliberately chosen not to tell me that has upset me the most.

I really do not class secretly taking his secretary to something he told me was a boys only corporate event as a business decision but I appreciate the point of what you are saying.

[Heavens2Betsy]

Only you know him.
My ex boss was not a liar and as far as I knew was completely faithful. It was a stupid omission on his part but that didn't make him a bad husband (just a stupid one)
You have to decide your deal breaker - stealing and lying would be mine tbh