please tell me why I can't cut out my abusive mother

[thatthingonyournose]

She does and (more often) says some horrible things to me. It has been like this since I was a child. It has been so accepted now for decades that I am her punchbag, even by other family members and friends, that there is something inside of me that is scared to change the status quo and I don't know why.

Some part of me knows that I have been dealing with it for years and now have installed some kind of personal overdraft facility for her insults, which keeps a reserve of energy to deal with the abuse when it comes.

In the times when she has completely and utterly crossed the line (and these have been extreme, often violent physical attacks or betrayals) I have retaliated with anger and cut her out. The longest period was for two years.

Whenever I do this, she cries and begs and becomes so sad and depressed and pitiful with apologies, and I see how empty she is inside. She is like a child. I can't bear the thought of her feeling this kind of desperation, and I don't know why. After a while I feel that I am strong enough to take it and I have to love her because I'm her daughter and she doesn't really mean what she says, and I let her back in and the abuse starts again.

The abuse is so belittling. That I am a pathetic, desperate, worthless, fat or unattractive, how no-one likes me. I made a speech at my own wedding and she heckled me during it. My father for some reason expects me to just absorb these abusive comments. Sometimes he even laughs at them, as if she is being entertaining or is a comedian. I think he thinks I just let them go over my head, which of course is what I appear to do - because she seems to thrive on my weakness - so I've had to learn over the years to at least appear like they have no affect at all - as that at least guarantees that they will stop after a little while. In the past when I have shown that a comment has wounded me deeply, she has slashed the wound open again and again.

A visit from her consists of her throwing poison arrows constantly from the moment she walks in.

Her: "You think you're so great, don't you?" (laughs,) "you think you have the perfect little life, but it's all a sham. You were nothing until you met your husband."

Me: Oh please, stop talking bullshit.

Her: "Deep down you know it's true. You know that no-one is going to tell you the truth apart from me - but when you hear it you can't take it."

Me: Right. (Rolls eyes) Would anybody like tea? (goes to kitchen)

Her: (shouting down the corridor) "You look awful in that skirt. You need to completely cover up otherwise you will become a laughing stock. No wonder Brian dumped you." (my ex)

Me: (ignoring) How are you? How's the house?

Her: (Looking at my wedding picture on the wall.) "Here you are posing again. I'd be embarrassed of this picture if I were you. It's arrogant to have photos up. Does your DH actually like women on the more overweight side? Or did he just feel sorry for you?"

The last visit she upset me so much that I sobbed for two hours after she left. I wait until I close the door and then I cry. DH got back and asked me what had happened, was furious and drafted her a fuming email telling her to never set foot back in our house, but for some reason I just couldn't let him send it, partly because I didn't want her to see me as weak or to know the things she said really affected me (and confirm in her mind that somehow they were true) and partly because I knew that whatever I was feeling right now, she would feel 10X worse upon receipt of the email. It's like abusing me is her lifeline. She hates herself more than she hates me. Does that make sense?

She once asked me to fix the internet on her computer as she doesn't know huge amount about technology. I went on to safari and saw that she had done about a hundred google searches about me online with association words like where I lived and my husband's name, his company, some of our friends and things like "affair," "liar," "criminal record," "vile."

When it's your own mother it is very hard to know what to do. She and I are so ingrained in this dynamic now - it's a part she's carved out for me since I was very, very young, so it's almost like I don't feel what's missing anyway - like being born without a limb or something. And now she is old.

The pain I will feel from cutting her out would almost be worse than the pain I feel from receiving her abuse, and I really don't know why?

Can anybody shed any light on why this is?

[Babycino81]

Jesus wept. Please understand that she is abusing you emotionally and it's a cycle you need to break. I feel for you OP but please try NC for a short period of time and gradually increase it if need be.

So sorry to hear what she has said to you, what an utter bitch.

[DioneTheDiabolist]

OP have you ever had any Counselling for this abuse? Because I think you could do with some. It will help you understand the impact she has had on you. But more than that, it can help you explore your options wrt her behaviour and make you stronger so that no matter what you chose to do, you do it from a position of strength.

[DioneTheDiabolist]

Oh and check out the Stately Homes threads in Relationships.

[thatthingonyournose]

Thank you for your replies.

I have had counselling for two years, which is why I am quite clear on what is happening and that it is abuse. Before this, I wouldn't have even called it abuse - I used to call it "criticisms."

My counsellor is adamant that I need to cast her out of my life. She asks me again and again why I seem to not be able to do it, but I don't know.

I just wondered whether anyone had a similar situation and understood the bind?

I keep thinking that if I could realise why I couldn't do it, I could solve whatever reason it was and make myself happier again.

[pictish]

She sounds evil. I am so sorry. Obviously you don't need this in your life.
Please understand this in no uncertain terms...this is your mother's problem. There is something wrong with her.
You did nothing to cause this, and you have every right to end it by refusing to see her.

[Nanny0gg]

and I have to love her because I'm her daughter

No you don't. There is nothing there to love. This is what you have to come to terms with.

Do you have children yourself?

[GregorSamsa]

Google 'Traumatic bonding' and/or 'trauma bonding'.

There are loads of links explaining how intermittent good/bad treatment is more effective at binding people to the perpetrator than reliably good or reliably bad treatment. Kind of like Stockholm Syndrome.

[LaurieFairyCake]

Why can't you do it?

Because you think her happiness is worth more than yours. Because you think she is 'better' than you. Because that evil old witch has had your whole life to work on you since you were the tiniest tot - to give you the message you are worth less than her.

The only way you can break free of that kind of poison is to cut her out like you did before for 2 years but not see her in that time for her to try and manipulate you. Move, change your number. Get your dh to intervene so you don't come to the door.

The problem is that you will have to cut the others out as they are all conned too - they will try and intercede on her behalf.

The only day you will be properly free is the day she dies

[Perfectlypurple]

You don't cut her out because you want her to be the mother she should be. Its no different to people in abusive relationships where they want the person they fell in love with back.

This isn't a normal mother daughter relationship. At best it is flawed but you know deep down it is abusive. I hope one day you can find the strength to cut contact as you deserve better than this.

[DioneTheDiabolist]

It sounds as though you have done great work with your counsellor, but the two of you are stuck ATM.

You actually don't have to cast her out (and as you say, you can't). This is because you do love her and you can see that she is a very troubled woman. Can you experiment a bit?

I know someone who used a kind of Naughty Child technique. She would see her mother, but at the first sign of disrespect would say "that was rude, I am leaving" or get her mums coat and say "that was rude, you are leaving". Nothing else was said at all, she left or ushered her mum out the door. Using your computer example, she would have said "I cannot fix your computer, you use it to be rude about me" and leave.

Try talking to your counsellor about alternatives as it is clear that for whatever reason, you can't cut her out right now and constantly asking "Why?" isn't a good use of your time together.

[seasavage]

Her emptiness is truly not your fault and NOT your responsibility. She has no respect. This isn't crossing a line these are verbal assaults. She cries etc because she knows emotional blackmail works. Unlike her, you care because you have that in you. She sounds truly awful.
By not having her in your life you will gain. It seems terrifying because this is normal life to you. You have every right to not be spoken to this way and to keep her from your home, your private space.

[Absofrigginlootly]

Read this book

www.feminish.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/TOXIC-PARENTS.pdf

[Hairylegs47]

She's conditioned you to feel responsible for her.
You aren't.
Seriously, you need to cut her out if your life. If she wants to be part if it she needs to sort herself out.
Ask yourself, would you take this from a neighbour, work colleague, random stranger off the street?
No you wouldn't.
Would you treat your own child the way she treats you?
No you wouldn't.
She's supposed to love YOU, she's supposed to show you how she loves you by doing little things for you, not you being her punchbag.

I know how you feel, my mother is the same as yours. I haven't spoken to her for 4 years. Every now and then I feel bad - how come she doesn't love me? I must've been so bad etc. News flash I was the child, not her. If she can't get over the 'evil lassie' I was - she told my DH I'd always been a disappointment especially from being 15 - then she's the one that needs her head examined. There's not a thing YOU can do to help her, she doesn't want it. She needs to get help herself.

and if I had a 'thing' for chocolate, I'd send you that too. Virtual hugs.

[SomethingVicardThisWayComes]

plesase be assured you owe NO ONE loyalty. my mother was similarly critical but she also allowed her husband to abuse me.

i cut her out around 12 years ago. best thing i ever did. of course it hurt - but i never looked back.

you do not owe this woman a thing - not love, not loyalty - those things are not automatic rights to family - they have to be earned just like anyone else.

you could just put a total stop to the abuse right now - its up to you. you hold the power - you just have to use it.

[bringbacksideburns]

Have you any children?

Does she speak to you like this infront of them?

I read somewhere that we can't change people but we can change how we react to them. I'm sad for you OP but you are never going to get the relationship you want with your mother. Some people just aren't equipped to have healthy relationships. And shame on your dad for facilitating this all these years.

She is not all alone, if you cut off contact. She has your father. You should never again put yourself in a situation where you sob for hours after seeing her. She has eroded your confidence and self esteem to such an extent that you see the abuse as the norm. That's why you put up with it. Let your husband send an email in a few weeks. Listen to your counsellor.

You get nothing from continuing like this. Stop being the puppy she kicks to make herself feel somehow better.

[Aussiebean]

Everything everyone has said here. You don't owe her anything and respect is earnt, not owed.

You can start by putting in place low contact boundaries.

From now on you are so busy that you won't be able to come over.

Your phone battery died, yes again, I really must get a new one ...sometime.

You have caller id but no answering machine so she can't leave messages that you feel you need to reply to.

There is not voice mail on your mobile.

Oh, you left your phone at home again. It was turned off and you didn't notice for the last few days.

She is knocking on the door, oh I am just off out can't stay and chat.

You never ever go and visit her without your husband being present. And she never comes to see you unless he is there.

How is work? Great, isn't it cold for this time of year?

How is your dh? He's fine, did you see that new shop on the high street?

You will not give them any personal information about your life. Everything is fine and nothing to report.

Going over for lunch at 12? thanks, but will need to leave by two as you have a prior commitment.

None if this needs to be true. And you might just pick up your keys and bag and go around the corner for a coffee.

If you can't so no contact just yet. Go for low contact.

[thatthingonyournose]

pictish thank you for reminding me about my right, that is very important to me. Perhaps the more I hear it, I will act on it.

nanny you are right I don't have to love her because she is my mother, but I think that the love a child has for the person who is feeding/keeping them alive when younger (even if also while abusing them) can become very confusing.

gregorsamsa I had never heard if traumatic bonding before until
I googled it just now. Yes, that is what it feels like and partially explains why I find it hard to let her go. Thank you for giving me the term.

lauriefairycake yes her happiness has always come first. Always. Even when I was a child her needs were always greater. That's the order of things I've grown up with. That's why it would be so shocking to the entire family if I suddenly changed the order. They've all already started sitting quite snugly in their places within the order with me at the bottom.

perfectlypurple yes she is the only mother I am ever going to have. I feel all the time "if only" I accommodate this or "if only" I accommodate that, I can pretend this is something like an ok mother/daughter relationship. But the toll on me is too great.

dionethediabolist you sound like a therapist yourself. Are you? I totally agree I am in a rut with my counsellor. We so just ask "why" now, and I continue to repeat the things my mother does and the counsellor continues to sympathise, but I need to move on. I have tried a version of the naughty child about 5 years ago, although maybe I didn't implement it well. She either starts sobbing uncontrollably immediately and everyone around me feels sorry for her (going mad at one insult and ending the whole visit looks like an exaggerated reaction to people who haven't heard everything she's said) or she does something dramatic like physically attacks me. If it's a physical attack I completely cut her out for however long, and she maintains that I overreacted to a "small" thing she said.

seasavage thank you. I have no boundaries with her and it has bled into my relationships with other women. I let them walk all over me "as that's what women do." My relationships with men, however, are better, and I don't put up with abuse.

absofrigginlootly thank you! Reading it now.

hairylegs I am sorry for you that your mother is the same. Do you have children? Did you realise when you had them that things didn't have to be like they were when you were a child? Does that become evident? I am scared of havin children because the thought of having to automatically collapse my boundaries again for another human being makes me terrified.

somethingvicard thank you, I know I have to stop the abuse. I am just scared of the fall out, because it will be even more dramatic than the abuse itself.

bringbacksideburns no children. I expect she would be much worse if I had kids. I find it impossible to believe how anyone can bring a child into the world and treat them like this. I don't need enemies in life, I have one who shares my DNA and who I open my door to every week. I have changed how I react to her in her presence (pretend I don't care/it has no affect on me,) but you're right I have to change how I genuinely feel about it inside.

aussiebean that is exactly what my counsellor said. All conversations are about the weather, shopping and stuff in the news now. She tries to personalise everything and I try to ignore/bore her into submission. It works for periods of time, but then she will literally pummel me with abuse that it's hard to keep a train of thought. Also when I don't see them as often my father gets involved and tells me what a terrible daughter I am.

[Aussiebean]

Think about it this way. The fall out for going non contact will last what? A few weeks, months?

Putting up with the abuse? How long will that last? Until your mother dies? Will that be next year? 2 years? 5 years? 10 years?

How much more of your life do you want to spend sobbing after a visit from your mother?

How much do you want to handle her while pregnant or sleep deprived with a sick baby? Or listening to her tell your 5 year old daughter how awful she looks.

Going non contact will be incredibly hard, but the end result will be years and years of peace.

Staying will be years and years of how you are feeling now.

I think I may sound harsh. Trust me. I know this is not easy. My bare contact took years of not returning phone calls, always having someone with me, never sharing information.
So I know it is hard, but the thought of still having her in my life is horrifying

[UpUpAndAway123]

I agree with Aussiebean.
I don't mean to sound flippant but recent events in my life (mainly DM being diagnosed with terminal cancer) has just reinforced the fact that life is too short to be unhappy and to spend your life with toxic people who add nothing positive to your life. I have cut out these people (including toxic gran) and don't feel I need to explain myself to anyone.
Does she add anything positive to your life?
As far as your father goes, I think you would also need to cut him out as he is facilitating the abuse (as are other family members who you also need to cut out).
You seem to have exhausted the counselling sessions so maybe take a break from them/try someone new.
x

[Hairylegs47]

Yes I have children and grandchildren!
I made a decision early, do I want to be like her? Do I want my children to feel the way I do? No I didn't.
So I used her example of what NOT to do. If she would do x then I would do the opposite.
It wasn't easy, as she was my 'example' I had to check myself a lot and still made mistakes. I'm not proud if this, once my DS2 wouldn't stay in bed - he was 8 I think - after a few hours I lost it, stormed into the room, picked him up and threw him on his bed. Then I heard a huge crack. He'd landed on a picture he'd hidden in his bed and smashed the glass as he landed. He was fine, I was devastated.
Now, I'd largely forgotten about that, I remembered the pic smashing when he was in the bed, but it thought it was as a result of him messing around. He reminded me what really happened, and I remembered the whole thing. I was devastated once more. My mum would've gotten angry and denied it ever happened. I apologised, but my DS2 doesn't feel hurt/anger/pain or at least I hope he doesn't.
Maybes I'm toxic too.

[shitatusernames]

Sounds like when she's saying all these things to you she's actually projecting about herself, toxic person in my family and this is just what she does.

[ButternutBosc]

I used to be stuck in this cycle of abuse with my mother, it was horrible but I'd always go back for more.

I only stopped contact finally when I had children myself, I could never treat my children the way she treated me, I love them and would do anything to protect them, and this is the way she should have felt about me.

The pain I will feel from cutting her out would almost be worse than the pain I feel from receiving her abuse...

I felt like this at first but that feeling went away and was replaced with relief, like a huge weight off my chest at not having to deal with her abuse anymore. She still tries to hurt me, she's made malicious calls to SS about me, spread horrific lies about me, has went to court to try and get access to my children, and constantly tries to continue her abuse towards me whilst at the same time acts as if she is devastated at the NC and is desperate to see me again.

NC does get easier. It has been 9 years of NC for me and I'd never go back. I have too much respect for myself.

[Hissy]

nothing to addd to what's been said already, but she really does have to go from your life.

I really loved AussiBean's post, I hope you get the oomph you need from it to go NC.

in my view, family have a responsibility to treat each other better because they're family. not worse!

when you have children, you'll know what love really is, and how cheated you were by your family. it'll help make you a better parent.

don't limit your life bbecause of your parents, live it to the full to spite them.

please dump them from your life. you'll be happier in the long rin.

it does hurt to end the relationship, because it's the death of hope that they'll ever be the parents you should have had.

make the decision. let your H help get rid of them, and please put all your effort into your new family.

does he have nice parents? could you 'adopt' them? :)

Stateley Homes thread is in Relationshoips, come and join us? you'll be very welcome!

[differentnameforthis]

You won't feel pain on cutting her out. You will feel relief.

This would be my life if my mother was still in it. Endless rounds of abuse, disguised as 'criticism'

How I am
worthless
unable to be loved
damaged
a crap person
useless
underachieving (will never amount to anything)


How people
don't care about me & only want my money
use me because no can really like me

It's projection, I see that now. All of it...who she is & what she is, lumped onto me because I am a threat to her & she has done NOTHING with her life.

Until me NO ONE in our family has owned a home (still no one does) but that is only because "your boyfriend (now dh) is using you to get your money, he'll kick you out when he sees what you are really like" (been married for 20yrs now). And apparently I am stuck up because I didn't insist the council house me.

She is a bitter old woman who has worked her way through several husbands. And is now shagging someone else's because his wife 'deserves it' (yeah, you tell me op, I have no idea what it means either)

OP, if this was your friend, or if your dh did this, would you stay?

Sorry, but who cares how she feels when she has broken you down so badly that you cry for hours. She certainly doesn't cry for you, or worry about your pain.

You are NEVER going to have the mother you deserve. And you deserve SO much better, honey...you really really do.

You feel like you can't do it because ... well ... it's your mother. "How can she be so mean, what if it is my fault, I'll just be nicer to her, I'll ignore her, I'll try harder, she said sorry, she needs me, she loves me, she loves me, she raised me, I owe her"

You don't.
You can do this.

[Quitelikely]

Please please cut her off. This is one of the most disturbing posts I have read on here.

You are not responsible for her, she is a terrible mother and you are not responsible for this woman's well being. She is IMO deeply disturbed and she contributes nothing good to your life.

Do you think you could summon the courage to tell her to stay away?