Are my ILs toxic? How do I deal with it?

[DreamsTurnToGoldDust]

This is really difficult for me as I lost my parents suddenly when I was in my early twenties and they were young themselves so I have no idea of being around older parents. My relationship was fantastic with my parents, we were very close and I spent a lot of time with them and have nothing but happy memories of my childhood/teenage years.

So, onto DH, Ive always got on with MIL, but its always been a little distant and polite as DH moved away when he was young (about 30 years ago) and never went back to live. He was encouraged to fly the nest, as did his older brother and sister at a young age, and MIL and FIL had very much their own life. There has never been an issue with the relationship (so I thought), DH would go once or twice a year to visit (tried to go more when DS was born but they were either off somewhere, busy etc or we couldnt go), he tried to ring each week but very often they werent there, hed leave a message and ring back the next week. DH and his siblings are not particularly close, there is a large age gap (him the youngest) in fact he really cannot get on with his brother who had left home when dh was young. PIL have never come to our home although they travelled around the world.<br /> <br /> FIL, died suddenly about three years ago, so we made the effort to go up more and DH now rings her every night. Shes been in and out of hospital over the last year, ds is very young, he tires her out so dh has tried to go on his own and get up when he can but its not always easy.<br /> <br /> MIL broke her hip on NYE, shes been in hospital since and looks likely to be in for some time yet. At christmas, she had given us £500 as she knew things had been tough for us as it has been for a lot of people, he has taken a second job and hes shattered, terribly run down and very very stressed. Hes tried twice to go and see her but have been told by his sis and bro that its not conveinient for him to stay and can he not book into a hotel, anyway its all been arranged for dh to go this weekend on his own to spend some time with her, hes been worried as he thought she had her phone off and he had not been able to get through to her for the last two weeks, his brother and sister have been very short on the phone to him.<br /> <br /> BIL rang him last night and it seems as though 30 years of angry came out, his mother doesnt want to talk to him as hes let her down, she felt she had to give him money as he moaned about finacial problems, all shes done for him and he cant be bothered to come up every weekend to see her, after he finished university he should have come back to his home town like his brother, hes let the brother and sister down as hes not shared the burden of her care with them, it went on for an hour, him, his sister and mother are all agreed that hes let the family down.<br /> <br /> DH is not awful, hes devestated, hes going up tomorrow to see his mother but I dont know what to say, Im angry and confused. I had such a different relationsip with my parents and would always have lived near them, as my daughter does with me, but theirs was never liked that.

I want to shove two fingers up to the lot of them, but dont suppose we can, can we?

Sorry its so long

[Arithmeticulous]

Did his mother say this directly to him? If it came via his siblings, then what would be the motive of telling him?

[DreamsTurnToGoldDust]

No, it came from BIL, he called last night on instruction from his mother, after she had discussed it with BIL and SIL, I think thats what hurt DH the most.

[Springdiva]

There was a counsellor reading from his book on radio 4 recently. One story featured a 'difficult' child in a family. Strangely, as the difficult child found themselves and became more able and happier, the rest of the family fell apart. The 'difficult' one had just been the focus of everyone's angst about their lives.

V longwinded way of saying perhaps this is the same for DH. He is getting the blame for a lifetime of bitterness. ILs seemed happy without input from DH (perhaps they alwasy saw him as the young one who they can't burden with problems) but whilst this was going on the siblings were seething away!

I would suspect also that siblings could be telling DMIL that DH is the problem and she is going along with it as she is in a vulnerable position.

DH should just turn up and apologise for not pulling his weight if this is what they feel, but why didn't DB and DS ASK for some help over the years, he's not a mind reader. And in what way has he let anyone down?? It's pure bullshit, elderly people get ill or sadly die, that's life.

[Springdiva]

DMIL might not be so bold when she is faced by him. It's worth him going to see if they back track over what they said. Which is quite likely.
Poor DH.

[DreamsTurnToGoldDust]

Sorry, I keep thinking of things that have happened over the years. On our wedding day, SIL and her family couldnt make it as they were going to see an Elvis Impersonator (you couldnt make that up really), anyway, one of my brothers raised a glass in rememberence of my parents, it was very emotional and lots of people obviously came over and spoke to me about them and told DH have much they would have liked him, as people do.

BIL rang the next day and said that MIL was very cross and upset as DH hadnt raised a glass for her mother and it had ruined the day. He had never met his grandmother and tbh it was my moment, his parents were there, mine wasnt. Ive never forgotten that, or I suppose forgiven if Im honest.

[HotDAMNlifeisgood]

Cancel the trip? Sounds like DH would be walking straight into an emotional trap. Then again, since he's staying in a hotel, he has the option of leaving to his "own" space if things get hairy.

Nobody forced MIL to give you 500 pounds: it was her choice. How dare she hold it over your head?

Similarly, if there were specific bits of help from DH that MIL and BIL and SIL wanted, there was no-one stopping them from opening their mouths and saying so.

I would advise your DH to say that he does not appreciate the tone or content of the phone call, and that if there are specific things that they want him to do to help with MIL's care, can they articulate what those things are?

[BNmum]

I think he should continue to go and visit his mother as planned and find time to sit down with her alone. He definately needs to hear it directly from his mother and be in a position to reply to the accusions of 'letting the family down'.
Why are the brother and sister guarding the phone? Would it be possible to buy a pay as you go mobile to give her and explain you're both worried for her safety/health so this would enable you/her to call at anytime?

Is the mother vunerable, do you think it possible that the other siblings are trying to push him out of any possible inheritance? Rightly or wrongly, it was the first thought that popped into my head when reading the above post.

Either way i think it's important that he clears this mess up quickly before it escalates into a bigger problem.

[DreamsTurnToGoldDust]

Sorry, meant raise a glass to the deceased GM and SIL who was watching Elvis!

Thanks spring, Im worried that I could make things worse and wind dh up so I tried to smooth things over for him last night, but actually when I think of it this morning I feel pretty angry. Hes going to apologise to MIL tomorrow to smooth things over, but he thinks MIL was ask BIL to be there aswell as she wont want to face DH on her own.<br /> <br /> I know she doesnt have much longer, and I dont her dying (shes in her late 80s, body failing but mind sharp as a button) and leaving DH with to pick up the pieces emotionally.

[Miggsie]

Hmmm...this sounds very strange.

He has rung every night - and often has to leave messages? And does she ring him back?

The "being told by BIL and SIL" this smells like a plot to me, they seem to be controlling the communication channels.

He has "let the family down"??? Just like that? Out of the blue?

I think indeed they are ganging up on him - those are very strong words. They sound like bullies to me - you BIL and SIL I mean - as for the mother, I am not sure - does she tend to speak through others? The fact your DH left lots of messages sounds like the family dynamic is screwed up - he has to prove devotion, the mother simply recieves it??????.


I notice no one seems to ring your DH or visit you?

This suggests to me there is something toxic going on and your DH is the scapegoat as he is the one not in the home town.

If he goes up there, he should just listen - not actually respond, nor justify himself - they sound so wrapped up in their own bile there would be no point.

If someone says "I messed up my life and it's all X's fault" they are the problem, not X.
One person cannot wreck the family be being absent, it isn't possible.

[PickledInAPearTree]

I think he needs to speak to his mother, and get this straight from the horses mouth.

I would certainly put his side across with all the times you've tried to go up etc and that he felt he wasn't warned to visit on a more frequent basis.

[HotDAMNlifeisgood]

Your wedding story does make them sound very toxic. MIL who wants to be the centre of attention, and creates drama, but doesn't say anything directly, just manipulates BIL into acting like a heavy on her behalf ( which he is clearly more than happy to do).

They sound highly dysfunctional, and you and DH will need to learn to detach from them emotionally in order not to get swept in to their drama and to secure your own happiness. Easier said than done, of course.

You could read the book "Toxic In-laws" by Susan Forward (she has a version called "Toxic Parents" too, but it's best if your DH seeks out this kind of literature for his own self).

[Juanca]

It sounds like BIL's really stressed and looking for a scapegoat. Your poor DH. He has tried his best. I would definitely go, but stay in a hotel. Like BNmum said, he needs to have a talk with his mum so these feelings don't fester.

Dreams I'm at the Elvis impersonator.

[pmcblonde]

I've been the sibling who had the vast majority of the care burden dumped on them and it can breed massive resentment which is magnified in crisis type situations.

You can choose to stick two fingers up at them or your husband can choose to sort out his family relationships.

IME there comes a point with elderly family members, especially difficult ones, where you have to adopt quite a detached, case management approach just to stay sane yourself. My parents are extremely challenging and have complex care needs so dealing with them can be very difficult if you allow yourself to be sucked in the maelstrom of family emotion.

It isn't reasonable for your MIL to expect your husband to visit every weekend but it is reasonable for her and him to sit down and work how often would be sensible and welcome, whether he brings his family or not, whether he and the more local siblings stagger their visits so she has visitors almost every weekend, if he can stay with her etc etc. It would also be sensible to agree calmly with his siblings what support each of them feel able to offer to their mother whilst she's in hospital and once she returns home. Will she need carers for a period? Could he take time off work to look after her during her first few days back at home (cooking, cleaning, shopping etc)?

It sounds as though his siblings are at the end of their rope with the situation but haven't been good at asking for help and support presumably because they aren't close. I've been there and it's really, really hard but they need to sit down and have an adult conversation about how things will be managed in the future to share the burden in a way that's practicable and reasonably fair.

You don't say how far away you live from your in-laws so it's hard to advise about practicalities. For example if you live close enough that you could visit your MIL whilst your husband is at work then you can share the burden too.

[fedupwithdeployment]

I may be way off the mark here, but your BIL and SIL sound deeply unpleasant....is there much (any) money to inherit? I would suspect that they had got MIL to cut your DH out of will. Might be worth thinking about?

[HotDAMNlifeisgood]

Hes going to apologise to MIL tomorrow to smooth things over, but he thinks MIL was ask BIL to be there aswell as she wont want to face DH on her own.

I don't think apologising is a good idea: this is the time to be assertive. Assertive does mean aggressive, by the way. But passivity in the face of bullying only guarantees more bullying.

Here is the formula for assertiveness:

1. Describe the offending behaviour, unemotionally
   

("BIL, you said on the phone that I was letting the family down and not doing my share to care for MIL.")

1. State how this behaviour makes you feel. Use only "I" statements; use no "you" statements that can sound like accusations and be disputed.
   

("I don't appreciate the manner in which this was done. I am happy to help, but cannot read your minds.")

1. Request alternative behaviour. Do not say "please".
   

("If there are specific things that you want me to do to help MIL, tell me what those things are and I will see if they are possible for me to take on.")

[DreamsTurnToGoldDust]

Thank you all so much for replying, I hardly slept last night worrying about it all.

BIL is a bully always has been, he thinks hes the head of the family since FIL died, hes taken over MIL finances, not that she had a lot tbh. He has his own demons, and I wonder if that what makes him so vile to DH, hes so patronising.

SIL, well I just dont know really, Ive always felt she resents DH for getting away as she dreams of leaving the area and feels quite bitter that she never did.

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

You have received some great responses and they do need your careful consideration.

The book that has already been recommended to you could well prove useful seeing as you have fortunately not come from a family unit where this sort of dysfunction goes on.

This is about power and control ultimately.

I think his family have made your DH the scapegoat for all his birth family's inherent ills. Their parents encouraged them to leave when they were young primarily because they wanted a life of their own. That in itself could be seen by some as reasonable; what was not reasonable on their part though was remaining unavailable once he had left.

His parents created this familial dysfunction; I wonder what part his mother has played in this overall. People from dysfunctional families end up playing roles.

Your DH certainly needs to speak to his mother without either his BIL or SIL present.

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

You write that his eldest sibling has never really got along with your DH so I think this is another tactic to beat your DH with. It is not unknown for emotionally unhappy siblings to gang up on what they see as the "weakest" (i.e most together) member of the family and his parents played a role in seeing that happen as well.

[DreamsTurnToGoldDust]

We live over three hundred miles away.

MIL did cut off some of her brothers and sisters many years ago, even though they lived in the same town DH remembers passing them in the street when he was with his mother and them both ignoring each other, I cant imagine that. So I think his biggest worry is that she is quite capable of just cutting him.

I agree, he needs to be assertive tommorow, I dont want a big feud but yes he needs to face her properly, I think that`ll be the last time BIL speaks like that to him.

I just feel a bit sad for him as he reallly loved his sister but feels he woke up a bit last night to her behaviour.

So to support, do I just say soothing words or do I try and get him to face this and possibly end any relationship with the SIL?

[DreamsTurnToGoldDust]

I dont want to out myself but I must tell you this story, (Ive never told anyone this) I have a very unusal name and MIL on meeting me when she knew DH and I were getting married, told me she was concerned about my name and BIL was married to a girl of the same name and she had comitted suicide, she was worried that I (my name) would upset BIL. I didnt know what to say, DH was furious with her and stayed after I went into the car to go out and apologise to me.

Lord, Ive never look at the behaviour as a whole, I just let it slip, its actually quite shocking isnt it.

[DreamsTurnToGoldDust]

Thank you all again for such in depth responses, I really really appreciate it. I will be looking at the book recomendation.

[FergusSingsTheBlues]

I may be wrong, but is this shit stirring just from BIL an attempt to discredit your DH and win in the inheritance stakes? Sounds like random old person paranoia, but his siblings should see through ut and nit be enabling such a nonsense.

[fuckadoodlepoopoo]

They sound awful!

You husband was never obliged to stay in the town they chose to live in. None of their business.

The wedding thing was pathetic! Im not surprised you haven't forgiven them about it.

His family have hardly bothered with him for years and now they are pissed off that they don't think he's doing enough?! It sounds like he's doing everything he can. The won't even let him stay in their home so he can visit!

And you don't give someone money and then use it as a stick to beat them with.

Yes they sound toxic. Sounds like your dh is the scapegoat in his family. My dh is in his as well. Its awful to see.

[Justaoneoff]

I suppose it's really down to what your DH wants to do, and you can only offer him support given that it's his family.

The fact is, you don't live close by or you wouldn't have to stay overnight every time you visit. There are two siblings who live close (so flew the nest, but not very far), and who are having to share the load in terms of care (which at the moment is hospital visits, and making sure her house / flat is all okay). Obviously that is tiresome for them, and they probably feel that your husband got off scott-free, and is asking a poor vulnerable old lady for money too, so effectively taking advantage. The fact that your DH didn't ask for anything is unimportant because it is clearly not how your MIL is painting it.

It sounds as though either your BIL is quite a bully, or MIL is yanking his chain and watching the fallout, as a bit of entertainment while she is otherwise indisposed, given that he is always the one who passes on her feelings.

Obviously not a very close family, and as a result, bad lines of communication between them all

[Miggsie]

Sounds like your SIL married her fahter - hence BIL acting as "head of family". Whether MIL is manipulating BIL or the other way round is an interesting point.

One thing is clear - your DH can't win, whatever he does will be wrong. He can be nice - they will sneer, he can stand up for himself - they will attack.

He definitely should not apologise or offer explanations - they will see this as weakness and pounce.

I also note that DH is going on his own - so they can gang up on him?

Don't make the mistake opf thinking these are reasonable people who play by your rules, they are NOT. They are selfish and manipulative. They fear and hate those who are different, or those who won't comply.
DH clearly isn't "in their gang" and so is fair game for criticism.

He should listen to them - then leave. Discussions with these types of people are pointless.

It isn't you, it's them - they are relying on others to carry the shame and guilt and fear for them.
Leave them to fester in their own crapulence.