close friendship with another woman

[noreallyitsnothing]

hi ladies,

i would really appreciate your feedback on this.

dh went out to the pub for a drink with some mates. he didn't come back until 6am ish. call it woman's intuition but i snooped on his email (not proud of this). and found this:

an email to a woman we both know, saying how wonderful it was to spend the night until dawn drinking, smoking weed just the two of them and 'sharing' (whatever that means) like old times. then reminding her how "beautiful, sexy, smart, funny and blond" she is (ostensibly to buck up her confidence with other men - i am brunette of course!), and asking her to please be touch if she ever gets lonely or just wants to hear a friendly voice etc. he even titled the email with lyrics from a song that starts "let us be lovers".

i know it sounds mad but i haven't confronted him about it, because this isn't the first time that he has crossed the line with women friends. we have two kids.

basically i know that we could get through this, it's not relationship-shattering in itself. but then what - it happens again and again and i become that bitter old lady with a charming husband - you know the kind, he's a charmer and people can't understand why he's with the bitter jealous wife. when actually his behaviour created the monster!

if confronted he would of course tell me i'm bonkers, paranoid and unappreciative, plus imagining things. this i believe is called gaslighting? there's quite a lot of it in our relationship.

i have a dear relative whose husband cheated several times when she was still young; now that she is nearing 70 (and still beautiful, not that that's got any bearing on it), she has just found out that he has just had a two-year affair! some people don't change. i think my dh may be one of them.

i'm always giving him the benefit of the doubt (see how i assume them staying up til dawn doesn't entail anything physical), but maybe i should stop.

many may be offended by how little i am mentioning the kids here, so i will from the off declare that i am not a strong believer in staying together always being best for the children, having been brought up by two unhappy parents trapped in a religious marriage i can say it's not always for the best. i know others will disagree.

any thoughts most welcome.

confused...

[Trestired]

Hm. Could you copy, paste and print out the emails then keep quiet and keep hacking into his account for further evidence. Failing that, write it all down word for word. Ammunition should you need it at a later date?

At best, it's fucking inappropriate, at worst, he's starting an affair. Bastard.

[MadAboutHotChoc]

It sounds like they are having an inappropriate friendship if not a full blown affair. Several weeks ago I discovered that my DH and a woman friend had an affair - it started with online chats/FB messaging and texting.

I would advise you to get Not Just Friends by Shirley Glass which explains a lot about how blurring boundaries and inappropriate friendships often lead to affairs.

[Trestired]

Can you tell us a bit more about what happened before? Who was the other woman? How you found out etc?

[wordsonapage]

I'd advice you to print out the email (preferably on lead lined paper) and hit the twonk over the head with it.

Or if the Not Just Friends book is a particularly heavy hardback you could possibly use that.

[Baggypussy]

I think you've answered your own question TBH.

If it were me, the question of whether or not there had been anything physical which happened between them or not would be pretty irrelevant. I would be more concerned about his blatant deceit and readiness to dismiss your feelings.

That kind of email conversation is not of a platonic nature, and if he hasn't cheated already, I'd say the intention's definitely there. Sorry.

I thoroughly agree that it's not best to stay in an unhappy marriage for the sake of your children- for yours or the children's sakes.

[noreallyitsnothing]

thank you ladies! just your two messages have suddenly made me feel sane again. i realise that i haven't talked about this with anyone as i feel a little ashamed - how silly.

anyway, madabouthotchoc i am so sorry to hear about your dh having an affair. as trestired says - bastard.

i will try that book. and trestired i have forwarded the emails to my account (and then deleted them from his sent box - feel like i'm turning into a right private detective!). question is whether to confront. strangely, i do feel more comfortable sitting on the evidence, whereas throughout my relationship to date i've always talked things through. i think perhaps i've been pushed once too far, and we never really get anywhere talking anyway.

thanks ladies.

[Trestired]

Na....gather more evidence first...sit back and let him dig himself one big hole that he can't get out of first. You don't have proof of an affair as such just yet but if you sit and wait, you will gather more. And I don't know where you stand legally but if he has had an affair and you have proof you could name the bitch on the divorce papers. And she is a bitch...it sounds like there must have been some 'connection' between them if he could send her an email like that which is basically saying, 'shall we have an affair then'.

[noreallyitsnothing]

thank you for the replies that arrived while i was writing.

thank goodness baggypussy that you said the intention is there. it's like there's a desperate denial going on in my head. it's driving me bonkers. i need to hear plain sense.

as to the background, the 'friend' is a girl that my dh knew as a teenager and i knew much less well. ironically we first met at a party of hers. i wonder now whether she has been annoyed all along that i took up with him.

i have been skeptical about her 'friendship' with me since a wedding a couple of years ago. she was all friendly to me but then when i left to relieve the babysitter she cornered dh and hassled him about why he wasn't closer to his ex-girlfriend, whom they both know.

all in all i think it might have been an easier life for the 'friend' if i'd not come into the picture and fallen for her mate.

incidentally his email to her was written at 3.30am. somehow that makes it worse for me!

[noreallyitsnothing]

trestired you are cracking me up! it's true - it was basically saying 'shall we have an affair then?'

heartbreak is different in your thirties isn't it. fifteen years ago i would have wallowed for weeks in my pyjamas. now every time i'm about to breakdown i remember i have to work/unload the washing machine/collect the kids. it's like i have to schedule my emotional meltdown, or put it on hold, or the whole household is going to go bellyup. heartbroken inside, functioning outside - i wonder how many other mums at the school gate this afternoon are going to be feeling the same....

[noreallyitsnothing]

and she's single with no kids - i could stay up drinking all night with him if someone didn't have to be up at 7am on a sunday morning to do breakfast. she has the time and means to be fun!!!!!!

[lucykate]

i have male friends and tbh, if any of them sent me an email in the tone your dh did i'd slap 'em!. firstly it's inappropriate, and secondly it's disrespectful to both their dw/dp (if they have one) and my dh. any contact i have is more along the lines of 'what colour do you think i should paint the sitting room', and 'can you walk the boys home from school for me, am stuck in traffic' etc.

i am a great believe in gut reactions, and if your gut sounding an alarm, they you are right to be concerned.

[CrapolaDeVille]

He either slept with her, wanted to sleep with her or wanted her to want to sleep with him. Staying with her until 6am and calling an email 'let us be lovers' would be the end for me, I'm really not a forgive and forget sort of person.

[Trestired]

O Fuck. Wait for her reply. If she says, fuck off you're married...we'll let her off. If she says. 'Oh thanks. It's really nice to have someone to talk to. I really enjoyed the other night..blah...blah...bollocks' then the shit is going to hit the fan.

[noreallyitsnothing]

you know it's funny you should say that lucykate, because while on the one hand i'm furious with him, i'm also furious with the 'friend'.

if you find yourself alone in your house at 1am with a married man and everyone has gone home you yawn and call them a cab - you don't break out the whisky.

and if you get an email like that you don't flirt back with a "ps. how do you know i'm surgery-free?" ('surgery-free' was one of the long string of compliments about her appearance - i had been talking about getting varicose vein surgery recently following my pregnancies, wonder if that had any bearing?!)

anyway, thoroughly disheartening to add broken friendship to broken trust in hubby. double whammy. but the hubby is the real villain here.

and yes, i have two brothers and male friends and never go beyond matter of fact blokey conversations, it just wouldn't feel right or faithful.

[noreallyitsnothing]

you know what the annoying thing is that i'm willing to change - you know i'm sure i'm not perfect and i know i do things that annoy him, but he needs to come to me and talk about it, not go to someone else and 'share'.

grrrrrrr! such nice weather and i'm grumpy, grr.

[darlyd]

Keep an eye on the messages, forward them all to your mail. Wait a while then bammm go in with all evidence.

Ask yourself, is your marriage worth saving?

Mine WAS when I read emails from DH to a girl from work, broke my heart. BUT 3 years on, we are still together. I can't forget about it, and I think it adds to my insecurity.

You need to think hard on what you want.

[noreallyitsnothing]

i think i mislead on the title of the email - it was "and the moon rose over an open field", which is a lyric from the simon and garfunkel song that opens "let us be lovers". much of a muchness really.

[IvyAndGold]

noreally, what would your husband say if you'd stayed out with a friend until 6am, and then sent them an email like that?

DP has a few female friends, a couple in fact who are ex's, but if i found an email like that, he would be up shit creek. and don't feel bad about snooping on his email, there was obviously justified reason to!

[noreallyitsnothing]

thanks darlyd, yes it's a question of what i want. i think what's really freaking me out is that for the first time i'm not sure i want to fight for it.

[Trestired]

I'm not suprised you are not sure you want to fight for it. That is because your husband is being a twat. Why should you be the one to do the mending. Nobody is perfect, but HE nis the villian here.

[Trestired]

Got an idea for you. Go right now, get his toothbrush and wipe it around the rim of the toilet.

That should make you feel a bit better.

[noreallyitsnothing]

yes trestired i agree - why is it the one who has been cheated on who has to make the emotional journey through acceptance and commitment, when the bad guy just has to wait.

ivyandgold, if and when i do broach it with him, i will probably do it in exactly that way, ask him what he would do in my position. might be a way to get through to him.

his parents have a long solid relationship and i honestly think he feels it's his birthright to have a long solid relationship, regardless of his behaviour.

[noreallyitsnothing]

hee hee about the toothbrush!
trouble is he sometimes borrows mine, and then where would we be....

[noreallyitsnothing]

signing off for now for school run.

thank you you have been incredibly helpful.

[amberlight]

I have close male friends. I send jokily-carry-on-film-style emails to them the same as I do to female friends and my online friends. I make it absolutely clear that I'm in a wonderful relationship and have no wish to stray, and I make it darned clear that I want them to find their own wonderful relationship with someone else/sustain the marriage or partnership they already have and be totally happy in it. My dh knows about all my friendships and no way do I share more with friends than I do with him, or feel the need to hide anything from him.
If it's not fitting that kind of pattern, there's something very wrong indeed. You are right to be very concerneed.