Should I stay or should I go?

[Jacquikd]

Sorry if I waffle a bit, but I think it is only fair I give you the whole story.

I am not sure that anyone is even able to help me, but I am just so confused at the moment.

I am currently married (our 10th anniversary is next week) and we have been together for 17 years.

We have two children and one on the way.

Where do I start?

At the beginning I suppose.

When me and my husband first got together, everything was brilliant (as things always are to start with) and everyone thought we had the perfect relationship.

When we first got together, I was a smoker and this caused great problems between my husband and me as he is asthmatic and very anti-smoking. Anyway, I did manage to give up, we got engaged and then got married.

We bought our first house, our first child was born and then our second child was born. Things were still brilliant between us.

In 1998 we moved house to a larger property but I was still in contact with my friends who lived in my old road.

In October of that year, I started to go off the rails - even I can admit that. My children were 6 and 18 months at the time and one night when I was out with my old friends I had a cigarette. How? and why? I don't know, I just did. Perhaps it was my little bit of rebellion. I stayed a "social" smoker (only smoking when I was out with this particular group of friends - once very 4 to 6 weeks) until May 1999 when, after a particularly stressful day at work, I had a cigarette in the office. Because this broke the "social" habit and it was now a daily habit, before I knew it I was on 10 a day and back to being a full-time smoker.

Also, around that time I started chatting with one of my work colleagues and before I knew it we were having a full blown affair. Obviously, things weren't right at home, otherwise I wouldn't have embarked on this affair but it was exciting and he paid me such compliments, made me feel wonderful (all a ploy to get me into bed I now know, but at the time it felt good).

The affair carried on for about a year before my husband found out, October 1999. The guy I had an affair with was also married (and still is) and has two children, although his are older than mine.

When my husband found out about the affair (by checking phone bills, etc.) I confessed to some of it, but not all. Just made out this guy was a good friend, and that was all.

Me and my husband went through a pretty sticky time but, at the end of the day, we both decided that what we had was worth working at and that we both wanted to stay together.

My husband had also found out about my smoking again by this time, which didn't help matters.

Me and my husband had real heart-to-hearts and laid our feelings on the table and things seemed to improve.

I was never going to confess to everything but after a year (now it is October 2000) things kept cropping up and I decided that I had to come clean and confess everything. My husband was accusing me still of being a lair, deceitful, etc. etc. I thought that, to give our relationship, a real chance of working and of things improving, I had to come clean so my husband could then decide what he wanted to do once he knew all the facts.

We had some really "horrible" conversations and some of the things that were said were not very nice. I told him that he shouldn't stay just because of the kids, he had to stay with me because he wanted to be with me, not because he didn't want to be on his own, etc. etc.

I told him that I loved him (which I still do) and that the affair was the biggest mistake of my life (I call it my mid-life crisis and I would never go down that same route) but he had to decide if he could, one day, forgive me and let us move onwards and upwards. We went through a very sticky patch but things were starting to get better.

Anyway, my husband has always known that I wanted three children, even after having one of each sex. I just felt I needed three to feel complete.

At the beginning of this year, we decided to start trying for a baby and I fell pregnant the first month - baby due next month.

We were still having sticky patches but we seemed to be working through them with not too much difficulty. If he needed to talk or find out something, I would be as honest as I could, as hard as that was sometimes, what with the questions he would ask.

Anyway, I stopped smoking when I fell pregnant but it seemed that every time I was having a bad time with my husband I would have a cigarette, even though I knew I shouldn't, what with being pregnant and everything.

It now seems things are getting worse, not better. When my husband found out I was still smoking, he would come out things like "just because the baby is not running down your legs, i.e. you are not having a miscarriage, it doesn't mean that everything will be okay". It makes me feel so protective of this baby I am carrying (hypocritical of me I know as I am still smoking).

For the last five weeks, my husband has not been talking to me at all. He will talk to me if he has an "every day" question or something to say, i.e. if he is making a coffee, he will ask if I want one, but he is not communicating with me in the true sense of the word.

He sits in the back room watching telly while I sit in the front room (even if we are both watching the same side).

If I get up and walk into the back room to sit with him, he gets up and walks out.

He is out at least once every weekend, either Friday night or Saturday night, and sometimes both nights. He goes out during the week too - it is as though he would rather go out on his own (I presume he is on his own) than sit in with me. When football was on on Wednesday night a fortnight ago, he had forgotten football was on and had actually bought himself a cinema ticket and he tells me he was going to go on his own. When he remembered football was on, he decided to go to a local pub instead to watch the football (again on his own).

This weekend, just gone, he was out on Friday night at a local club with his work mates (male and female). I know the club shuts at 2 am and he didn't get home until 3:50 am - I know what time it was because, since I am 35 weeks pregnant, I need to keep getting up during the night for a wee!

I just don't know what to do.

Obviously, he is not happy being with me and, to be honest, I am not happy either. For the first time, on Saturday, I cried when I spoke to a friend who was supposed to come and visit. Normally I am such a strong person but I think my hormones must have been playing up and, obviously, I am feeling a bit insecure what with being 35 weeks pregnant and not looking the "fittest" of people and knowing he was out at a club Friday night where the females would look "fitter" than me.

I don't feel as upset now - I think I am slowly coming to terms that I have now got to live with the consequences of that affair (and the smoking) and that, inevitably, we are going to split up. I still love him to bits but what is the point of staying when neither of us are happy.

I know that being single, with two children and a newborn baby is not going to be easy but I cannot see any other option.

I now think things have got so bad they can never mend and we can never have a proper relationship again.

Sorry to be graphic, but we have always had a very active sex life (even while pregnant) but now he hasn't come near me for a fortnight (a long time for both of us!). The last time we did make love (if you can call it that) was when we had a heart to heart on a Saturday night (after he had had yet another night out) and we had this lovely "making up" but, when we woke up on Sunday, he, again, was not talking to me. For the first time ever, I felt used and abused, it was as though he only had this heavy conversation so he could "get his end away" (sorry!) and then the next day, it was as though nothing had changed.

It makes me sad to think and say this, but I don't really think my kids would miss him too much if we decided to split up anyway. He doesn't do anything for/with them - any activity they do, I do with them, whether it is going to the park on their bikes, or taking them for their swimming lessons.

I am not up to anything now that I shouldn't be (apart from the fact that I am pregnant, I don't want to go down that road again) and for the last year or so now, the only time I have ever been out is to bingo with my mum (very sad!) when she picks me up and drops me back home.

He is continuously checking up on me (not that it bothers me that much because there is nothing to find out), but he checks my mobile phone, fax machine, normal phone for incoming and outgoing numbers.

He told me that he thinks he can NEVER trust me again and, without trust, you can't have a relationship.

I know I have brought this all on myself and I am thinking that may be it is only fair that I ask for a trial separation so he can (1) either decide that he does want to be with me, or (2) give him a chance to find happiness elsewhere.

I JUST KNOW THAT WE CANNOT GO ON THE WAY WE ARE.

[Janus]

God I do feel for you. I guess I'm going to point out some really obvious things so hope I don't sound patronising. You have obviously got a complete breakdown of communication and while this is going on nothing is going to get better, only probably get worse. I think the only way to get back on track is to get to something like Relate. I have known people go here or to counselling who have turned their lives around and it would be a real shame if you both let go without some sort of a fight to save what was obviously an extremely strong relationship.
Unfortunately people have affairs and the trust thing is the hardest thing to get over and, again, I think with counselling this can be achieved. I know this may sound odd but if he didn't care for you then he equally wouldn't care what you were up to so if he is consistently checking on you then this may be a good sign??
Are you happy about him going out so much when you are 35 weeks pregnant? Maybe a starting point for talking would be you saying you need him to be home incase you go in to labour. This may start a row but it sounds to me like you need to clear the air and there won't be much time after the baby is born.
I think Relate can sometimes do emergency appointments and I'm guessing you would qualify so please try to talk to someone before going down the road of separation which can sometimes be very hard to then get off.
Best of luck and let us know.

[Sweetie]

I would echo what Janus has said, but I also think that you should not be too hard on yourself - you say that you have brought this on yourself, but your husband's current behaviour, with you being 35 weeks pregnant, is pretty lousy. I think that, given that you clearly both made the decision to have another baby and to work at the relationship, it is very unfair of him to say that he can never trust you again.

Try and get him to agree to counselling, for all your sakes. If, however, he refuses to do this, and things don't improve between you, then separation may be the only option. Although it will be hard for you with 3 kids to look after, I don't think it could possibly be worse than the awful situation you are in at the moment.

Good luck.

[Jacquikd]

Thank you for both your comments.

I have had another bad night at home (I access the Internet from work - still working part-time - only 2 more weeks to go) with him not coming home from work until gone 11 pm. I was in bed at 9:30 because I am feeling so tired, not only from the pregnancy but I also feel emotionally drained.

I have come to the decision, after reading your comments, that if we both want to try and save this marriage (which, when it is good, it is very good) we have got to talk to an outsider (like Relate) who may be able to get us back communicating. It seems whenever we try to broach the subject ourselves, there is still so much anger/distrust, etc. on his side, that we never actually resolve anything. Just as I think things are getting better, they take a turn for the worse again.

This morning, we were both wakened at just gone 5 am by a car accident outside our house. Luckily no-one was badly hurt although the police/ambulance were called but neither of us could go back to sleep afterwards.

I asked him where he got to last night and he said he had to work late dismantling a stand at Olympia (now I think about it, I do recall him mentioning this late night but didn't realise it was last night). I told him a phone call would have been nice, but I suppose that is a bit difficult considering he is not really talking to me.

He told me that, just because he is not sleeping with me, doesn't mean that he has met someone else and nor is he sleeping with anyone else. I think I believe him.

He told me that he feels I manipulated him into having this baby but he has said that once it is born he will love it just as much as I will and just as much as me and he loves the other two.

I think the reason why he has trouble "bonding" (if that is the correct word) with the two children we already have is that his own dad died when he was only 6 and he doesn't really know how a father should interact with children as he can't go by his own experience. His mum did re-marry when he was 9 but his step-dad has never really "been there" for him and from that young age he was left to his own devices. Even though he has an older brother and sister, they were that much older that they were already forging new lives for themselves and I don't feel they needed a father figure as much as my husband did.

I suppose the reason I feel he is lacking in the "father department" is that I had such a good relationship with my dad (who died at age 56 in 2000) while I was growing up and I know that he is missing out on so much not doing things with the children.

He thinks the reason I wanted this baby is because "I am trying to mend a wrong" (he may be right) and he feels we should have perhaps had a year or so before trying for another baby so we could have time together to try and build our relationship again. Obviously, when this baby is born, it will be that little bit harder for us to have time on our own.

I told him that obviously we need to really talk things over and we are hoping to do this at the weekend. Whether it will resolve anything or not, I don't know but it is worth a try.

As I said, I do still love him and want to be with him but we have got lots of things to clear first.

Thanks for listening. It is good to talk, even for my own peace of mind.

[Jacquikd]

Batters,

Thanks for your support.

I am really interested in the support that Relate might be able to give me and I am definitely going to contact them. Even if my husband doesn't want to involve anyone else, I feel I might be able to see them on my own and see if they can give me any advice on how to help my husband come to terms with all that I have told him (i.e. the affair).

I know my husband finds it hard to talk about things - I think it is different for females, it is easier for us to open our hearts and lay our feelings on the line. I think males in general don't have friends they can confide in.

I have lots of friends I could talk to, but I don't want them judging me (which I am sure they would) and I am sure that impartial advice from a Relate councellor might help us in the future.

I do know that I want to stay with him and I do know that we can be happy again - we just really need to get things sorted and hopefully we can move onwards and upwards.

I also tried copying my letter onto the "Ask an Expert" but have not been able to. I know I could type the whole thing out again, but I haven't got the time at the moment. I have e-mailed mums net to ask if there is any way I can paste my message into their "Ask An Expert" site.

On looking at the "Ask An Expert" site, I see that I am not the only one in this type of situation and I found the Relate number listed there with a list of the areas that they cover. Luckily there is one close to where we both live, so even if I can't get my husband to come along, I am sure they would be able to help me and, in helping me, they might be able to give me some pointers on how to mend our relationship.

I know that things can never be as they once were, but I am sure, deep down, that things can be as good or even better.

Once again, thanks for your kind words.

[Janus]

Jacquikd, I'm glad you sound so positive today. I'm pretty sure Relate will see you as an individual and will then try to get your partner to join you at a later stage when maybe he will see that it is worth trying too. I really think you can both get through this with a little help. I must say if you are still working and looking after your kids and heavily pregnant I think you're amazing. You must be tired and, as already said, remember that tiredness can make things seem a whole lot worse than they are.
Best of luck with getting things back to as they were and with the new baby.
Take care.

[Shiv]

I went to the Australian version of relate I guess, Relationships Australia, i knew we had communication problems in our relationship but my partner refused to see it and therefore 'we didn't need to bother with all that waffle' but just going on my own helped so much. It helped me to get him to talk and more important to learn to listen. I think you are a very strong person to still be sane with such a heavy load , best of luck and hope all goes well for you.

[Jacquikd]

Me again, after another "stressful" night at home.

Yesterday, I felt quite optimistic and positive about things, but last night things took a turn for the worse, again!

Yesterday, it was my husband's birthday and, for the first time in a long time, I wasn't dreading going home from work.

He actually sat in the front room with me last night which he hasn't done for about a fortnight but, then, at 8:00 pm he told me he was going out for a drink and would be home by 10:00 but he didn't get home until gone 11:00. When he left, he could see I was upset as I was crying but he didn't try to comfort me in any way. He went upstairs and gave our youngest (who was in bed asleep) a kiss and then gave our eldest (who was in the front room with me) a kiss but didn't even come near me. Just put his coat on and out he went.

Before he went out, when he was sitting in the front room with me, he told me that "I am making him ill" and he was feeling depressed. This made me feel terrible and I think this is why I was crying (not sobbing, just tears running down my face). I don't want to make him ill, the one thing I want is for him to be happy, even if this means he is not with me.

Sorry to get personal, but we haven't made love for a fortnight now and I know that one of the signs of depression is a lack of sex drive, etc. As I said before, he has said that he is not seeing any one else and is not having sex with anyone else, but he did say that when he goes out he does "talk" to other people, both male and female. I know that what I have done in the past is a lot worse than just "talking" but this is making me feel so insecure. I know there is no harm in "just talking" but it upsets me to think he may find someone he likes more than me (as he tells me quite often that I am not a very nice person and he doesn't really "like" me although he does love me). It doesn't help that he isn't wearing his wedding ring at the moment and that doesn't give me much comfort when he goes out.

Some days I feel so strong and feel I can cope with whatever happens, even if we split up, but then other days I feel so despondent and down and sorry for myself, I suppose.

I told him to leave if he wanted and he said that wasn't an option so I asked if he wanted me to leave, and he said that wasn't an option either. This makes me think that perhaps we can work things out, but also makes me think that is he just staying because it is better to stick with what you know than it is to leave. Also, I think that he is thinking that if he left he would be the one that is worse off, i.e. I would still have the children with me and still live in the same house, it would be him that doesn't have the children any more and would be on his own.

He has told me in the past that the easiest thing would be for him to leave and he actually finds it hard sometimes to stay in with me. This doesn't make me feel very good either - that he would rather be out than in with me.

I asked if he was going out with his one closest friend for a birthday drink but he told me that his mate was working nights this week but they would go out next week. This also upset me, as next Friday is our wedding anniversary and I expect he will arrange to go out either Friday or Saturday with his mate.

I find it such good therapy to write down here what I am going through - even if no-one can help, it does help me putting it into words.

Thanks for listening.

[Winnie]

Jacquikid, I am afraid I can only add to what others have said; try and get some outside help. Don't be so hard on yourself. I am sorry to be so blunt but your husband is being utterly selfish! Has he not considered what effect his behaviour is ahving on your children, yourself an dyour unborn child? Marraiges can be worked out but both partners have to want to do this. You obviously do but your husband seems to think he is playing his part by simply not leaving! You really do need some help and support, you deserve it... even if you go alone. Good luck and best wishes.

[Janus]

Bloody hell, I'm sorry but he's being a right little git and it seems to me that, maybe in his mind, he is trying to get back at you and hurt you like he feels you may have done with the affair. I'm surprised you don't bash him over the head as he's on his way out! Maybe his comment on you making him feel ill (very unfair in my opinion, he should try being 35 weeks pregnant with all this going on) is his attempt at trying to start talking about things. Maybe when the kids have gone to bed, etc, this evening you could say you have been thinking about what he said last night and would like him to explain more, what he thinks is wrong, what you are doing wrong, etc and then you can tell him how unreasonable he is being and him disappearing every night is not going to sort out anything.
I think I would have gone over the edge at this stage so be assured you're being really strong here and do try and start talking.
Hope the weekend's not too much of a nightmare. BTW, do you have family or something nearby that you could take the kids to for a night so you can really talk or shout or whatever you need to do?
Good luck.

[Anoushka]

jacquikd i am so sorry to hear you are having problems have you tought of getting a baby sitter and going out with him it might put your mind at rest that he is not seeing anybody else i strongly think you should talk to a close friend she could badysit for you or if you have granparent you could tell them i sure they could look after the kids for the night i think it realy important to get away from the house and the kids and try to relax in a pub setting he might be able to talk more camly and i think it's not good that he always goes out and you stay at home i hope it helps keep writting i does help

[Jacquikd]

Thanks for your comments.

I could always ask my mum to babysit (my dad died last year, February 2000) but I feel awkward asking. She looks after my two children when I work (Wednesday and Friday) but for the last 3 weeks I have been working Thursday as well as the other girl in my office is taking her holidays before I go on maternity leave so that means my mum has had my children three days on the trot for the last three weeks.

My mum has my kids from 7:45 in the morning until 6:30 at night. The eldest is at school and the youngest is at nursery. On a Friday, she also looks after my brother's two children, even though one of them is not his.

This is very confusing - my brother met a girl who already had a daughter (18 months at the time). They had a son together but the relationship broke down after 5 years or so and my brother actually moved back home the weekend after my dad died as the girlfriend is keeping the house and wants to take over the mortgage but my brother has to keep his name on the papers for a year while she proves she can afford the mortgage. The girl (who is now 11) knows my brother is not her true dad but thinks of him as such.

Anyway, my brother has now moved to Birmingham (we live in Surrey) and my mum still looks after his kids on a Friday.

This means that on a Friday she has the following:-

Girl of 11
Girl of nearly 9
Boy of 6
Boy of 4

I know that if I asked her to babysit she would, but it is our anniversary next week and I would rather go out then. Anyway, husband is out tonight (Friday night again!!) (even though he went out last night "on his own!" for a birthday drink) and we have got a wedding to go to tomorrow.

I know we both really need to chat and I need to tell him his short-comings (as he is always telling me mine) but I feel so emotional at the moment I can't face going to a local pub as I know that if things turn "nasty" I will get all tearful again.

It also doesn't help that everyone thinks my husband is just wonderful. He loves DIY and is actually very good at it and I do have a lovely house but I wish he would spend more time with us as a family. Also, my mum thinks the sun shines out of his arse.

My feelings at the moment are just so weird - one minute I feel quite "up" and able to cope with everything but then suddenly I feel sorry for myself and not so good.

It doesn't help that I am currently working three days on the trot when I am used to just working Wednesday and Friday and I am starting to feel the strain. It feels like if anyone asks how I am or says I look tired, I feel like I am going to burst into tears.

If husband is trying to make me feel some of what he feels (about the affair) then he is certainly succeeding. I feel so jealous of these unknown (males and) females that he talks to when he is out.

I know he goes to a "singles club" with one of his mates quite regularly. The club is not actually a "singles club" as such, as you do get couples there as well but it doesn't make me feel very good that he is going to this place and he is not wearing his wedding ring.

It also doesn't help that when he went out last Friday with his work mates, one of the girls there is a "good friend" of his and I know that this is one person he feels he can talk to. It doesn't help that he says this girl went last Friday and they "had a right old laugh". He is certainly not having "a right old laugh" when he is with me.

Oh dear! What a pickle I seem to be in.

[Lizzer]

Hi Jaquikd, I'm absolutely no help as far as your situation goes, but I think I can emphathise with how you're feeling. I left my parnter of 3 yrs when I was pregnant with our baby. I had tired of being treated like a doormat and thought he would be no support whatsoever to our daughter (this prediction has turned out to be correct so far). Obviously I didn't have the same criteria as you - children, house, marriage etc. But I do know that now I am happier in every way than when we were together. I'm not suggesting for a minute that you leave but I hope you can see that things will get better if you want them to. Don't be pushed into anything by anyone, have real respect for yourself and your family and don't be frightened of other people's reactions (just because he 'appears' to be a perfect husband/father doesn't make it right the way he is treating you).I know that some of his emotions are a reaction to your affair but you can't live your life feeling guilty - it's not fair on yourself, you've tried to make up for it and he needs to accept that and stop punishing you.

Take care and keep messaging here - it's a good way to share your emotions without having to confide in someone too close to the situation, we'll always listen.....!

Wishing you luck and happiness...

[Jacquikd]

Hi Lizzer.

Thanks for your words. I have a friend who left her husband a year ago and she is a completely different person - struggling financially but so much happier, as are her two boys.

I just wish I could look into a crystal ball and see what the future holds for me. I don't want to be in this same situation in 10 years time where the affair keeps getting flung back in my face. I know he has to come to terms with what I have done to him and I can give him as much time in the world as he needs, but, in my eyes, there is no point in trying to save a marriage that cannot be saved.

All I know at the moment is that he is not happy and neither am I. I do still love him but if we are both going to be unhappy in the future with each other, I think it is better to cut our losses now and try to move on.

I won't be on this link until next Wednesday as I don't have Internet access at home (working on getting it set up though) and I am not in the office until next Wednesday.

Everyone's kind words are very much appreciated - for me it is a kind of therapy to write what is actually going on and know I am not going to be judged too harshly.

[Joe]

So you had an affair, he either forgives you or he doesnt, he cannot keep going back when he feels like it. Does he realise that when he upsets you at the moment he upsets his unborn child?? I know this sounds harsh but I was in an unhappy marriage for 9 years, most of that time not really realising it myself. Ok I didnt have children, but it still seems daunting at the time, finding somewhere else to live etc all on your own. I didnt talk to anybody and I wish I had. Everybody from the outside saw what was happening, but has it was a gradual thing I just thought this was a normal marriage. I was so unhappy and very nasty as far as having a very very short fuse and would shout at everybody for the slightest thing. I shut myself off from friends and family, frightened to use the phone for the cost and to use the car for the petrol. I should have followed my instincts and not got married in the first place. I suppose what I am trying to say is you dont have to put up with being miserable, you just have to face this isnt it for me. I am soooo glad we divorced. I am a different person, the fun loving person I was before. I now have a lovely husband who I met while divorcing my ex husband. He was also getting divorced so we both knew what a bad marriage was (he is also a different person). I am so happy now, my life is complete. You dont have to be unhappy, you dont need this to effect you children. You are only here once and you deserve to be happy. Be hard on him, its not much to ask for, to be happy and it doesnt cost a penny. You may have alot to sort out, but you both have to want it.

[Anoushka]

hi i have been reading the last two messsages and i am sadened to think that you will give it up after all you have been with him for ten years it a long time and you are having his child so you must love him i strongly sugest you think very hard before you give it all up you have three children and think very hard before you give it all up i know you are going though a hard time at the moment and i know it's easy for me to say this but i think every body has there bad patches but you have to want to try and try again you have to let him get over the shock of the affair and work trought it i think you should try councling first and once the new baby has come it might be a lot better please do not do ant thing you might regret later

[Copper]

How did the weekend go? Did you have a chance to speak? I've been off sick, so didn't see your thread until today - and I've been thinking about you all day!

I was wondering if your husband is punishing you for all the 'betrayals' in his life - his father dying and leaving him, his mother not really focussing on him, his siblings leaving him to get on with it, as well as with you (who he presumably thought of as his prize and haven in life) having an affair. Maybe all the misery he felt at the other things is coming out in this, on top of how devastated he feels about you?

It seems to me that in a sense he's got in a real negative rut and doesn't know how to get out of it. It's obvious you love each other, but he doesn't want to get hurt anymore and so he keeps on punishing you, and you don't want to hurt him any more and so you keep on taking it. But it's not getting either of you further forward.

Did you get anywhere with Relate? I think he needs to know that you are serious about trying to understand and put right the damage you understand you have done to him. You can't keep on blaming yourself for ever and getting pushed down by it: take the responsibility and try to move on. I did something similar (a different kind of betrayal) and it did come right eventually, after I'd had counselling and realised what I was doing to my husband. He wouldn't come, but I think he appreciated that I went.

I have to say it wasn't quick, and we weren't happy for quite a long time.

The very best of luck - it is so easy to make a mistake, and so hard to put it right. I think if only you had known how devastated your husband would be, you would never ever have done this. But we just don't know how much they love us and depend on us, and how much we depend on them until it all gets put in jeopardy.

And being pregnant too: you poor thing. I really hope he can come out of his despair and see how much he needs you.

[Jacquikd]

Me again with the latest update. I have not been able to log onto the Internet until today and quite a lot has happened so I thought I would update you.

Thanks for your comments.

He went out last Thursday night for a birthday drink (on his own, so he says) and also on Friday night (on his own, again). Thursday he didn't get in that late but Friday night he didn't get in until 3 am. I woke up when he came in and I "took the bull by the horns" and decided to broach the subject. I was quite tearful and emotional, but I told him that I couldn't go on as we were as neither of us were happy. I told him that I thought the kids wouldn't miss him that much if I left and I think this shocked him. We had a real good conversation and both agreed that we would try and give it another "go".

We eventually went to sleep at 6 am! and, because I had had an early night, I got up with the kids and let him have a lie-in. We had a wedding to go to on Saturday and I told him that he didn't have to go if he didn't want to. I know that he had been invited out by a girl (not just him, his whole company) who used to work at his company Saturday night and I didn't want him to feel that he had to come to the wedding (who was a friend at my work) if he really didn't want to.

Anyway, he did decide to come. The "unfortunate" thing though was the fact that we had been invited to the whole day and it was a Catholic wedding and rather long-winded. The wedding breakfast was late starting, as was the evening reception - it was supposed to start at 7 pm and didn't start until 9 pm. He was fine all during the day and the first part of the reception but I felt he went "quiet" when the evening reception was due to start - he later told me that he finds it difficult mixing with my work colleagues as he feels everyone knows what has gone on (although they don't) and they are laughing at him/talking about him behind his back.

Anyway, the kids were really, really tired by about 9:30 and we decided to take them home to bed. The youngest is normally in bed at 7:15 and kept asking if we could go home so he could go to bed. Normally, on holidays and suchlike, if we are out for the night, the youngest falls asleep in his pushchair but, because we went to the wedding in my husbands car and my child's pushchair was in my car, we couldn't even use it.

On the way home, I said to my husband that I bet he wished he had arranged to go out with Emma (the girl who had invited him and his workmates out) instead of coming to the wedding. He said he wouldn't have minded going, although this did upset me as he was out Thursday night and Friday night.

By this time, the kids were asleep in the back of the car and I told him that, if he really wanted to go to the nightclub where they were all meeting, I would drive him there and then he would only have to get a cab home (although it is about 50 minutes drive from our house). He did put up a bit of an argument but I could tell that he really did want to go, so I turned the car around and started driving towards East Grinstead where they were all meeting up. He didn't know exactly where they were meeting but he had his mobile with him and was going to ring one of his workmates to find out where they were. By now, I was getting upset at the thought that he would rather go out with his mates than come home with me, although I tried my hardest not to show it. Anyway, we had only driven for about 10 minutes when he said to turn round and drive home as he felt really tired from the night before. I have to say this did make me feel a bit better.

Anyway, Sunday was a really good day for us - more like old times - at least we were talking and seemed happy in each others company.

Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday were "normal days" and I started to feel a bit happier.

About a fortnight ago, I took my wedding ring, engagement ring and eternity ring off as he was not wearing his. He hadn't even noticed until my mum mentioned it at the wedding. This seemed to upset him, although he has not been wearing his for about 6 weeks.

On Sunday, he put my rings back on for me but he is still not wearing his. When I mentioned last night (Thursday) that he is still not wearing his ring, he said that he only wants to put it back on when he feels proud enough to wear it again. This, once again, upset me as it seems I have to wear mine (although I am proud to wear them) but he is not willing to wear his yet.

Today is our 10th wedding anniversary. I feel a bit "down" as I never imagined I would be feeling like I am on this milestone anniversary of ours, even though I know it is all my own fault.

He is not going out tonight (which is a first for a Friday night for a long time).

Last night, he told me that he had not heard from his "one good male friend" about whether he was going out Saturday night - this is a belated Birthday bash for my husband. I asked where he was going and he said "Pals in Croydon". Normally, when he goes out with this one good friend they always go to Sutton as it is nearer home and I asked why they were going to Croydon. He said that the people from work were going as well (although he omitted to tell me this previously - I thought he was only going out with his one good friend, not his workmates as well). He said he feels the tables have turned and I am always checking up on him and that he feels he cannot mention work as I "cop a strop" every time he does. I tried to tell him that I feel very insecure at the moment and am really worried that either he will do something to get back at me (like an affair) or he might meet someone he likes more than he likes me (he keeps telling me that, although he loves me, he doesn't actually "like" me). I told him that I feel threatened by this this girl at his work (Tracey) and he said that he feels he can never mention work as Tracey is his assistant and they do work closely together.

I don't like what he has changed into but he told me last night that he has had to change and try to forge a life for himself. I said I have no problem with him going out (which I honestly don't) but I don't want to feel that he is only "happy" when he is out, I also want him to be happy when he is with me.

He said that we have a long way to go yet at making this marriage work and we are not there by a long shot.

I really feel like asking my mum to babysit tomorrow night and ask if I can come too, although, to be honest, I don't feel up to it, what with being 36 weeks pregnant. Normally I love going out to "clubby" pubs and having a good old drink/dance, but I know that I won't really enjoy myself if I do go tomorrow as I am getting really tired and I know I won't fancy standing up all night. Also, it is not much fun if everyone else is dancing and drinking and you are the only one that is not. But I also know that if I stay in, I will be fretting. Can't win really.

Sorry I have waffled on again.

[Pie]

It sounds like he just wants to punnish you...his behaviour is childish, in my opinion. You are 36 weeks pregnant and have 2 small children. He agreed to have this next kid. Yet if he goes out as much as that how can he ever have any contact with any of the kids????

I think someone made the point earlier that if he said he was willing to work it out back when you confessed to him, then thats what he should do.

Telling you that he still loves you but doesn't like you sounds like he is still hurting and doing his best to make sure you are as miserable as him.

If he can't ever get over the problems you have had then I would think that you are better off alone. You want him to be happy, but you deserve to be happy too. It doesn't matter at this stage that you had the affair, it matters that he is not trying to make your marriage work. You don't deserve to be treated like this, no matter what you've done.

[Jacquikd]

Pie.

Thanks for your message.

I think, in a sick sort of way, he actually enjoys making me feel like I do. He said last night that, although he is not seeing anyone else, he admitted that the way he is acting he makes me feel as though he is and I think this is to try and make me feel some of what he has felt in the past (if that makes sense).

He said that he knows I want him to be happy (which I honestly do) but that I also need to be happy and obviously I am not happy at the moment and we are still "only working at it, we are not over everything yet". I suppose I just want things to be the way they once were, although I know they can never be exactly the same. Dh says he no longer feels he wants to "kick the sh*t" out of the other person, he seems to have come to terms with what I did more than I have, but it seems that his way of having got over it is by going out and forging a new life for himself while I seem to be stuck indoors.

I tried to blame my upset on my pregnancy hormones; obviously I am feeling rather "large" at the moment (everyone asks if it is twins!) and don't exactly feel a sex bomb and I feel jealous of all these women I don't even know who are out wherever he is and obviously looking better than I am at the moment (even though dh never says I look awful, etc.). I suppose I am unhappy at my own insecurity - talk about the tables having turned.

[Wornout]

Jacqui,
I know my sympathy is not going to help, but you have it anyway, I cannot believe what I read when you update, I think he must be the most childish & selfish person I have heard of! You should enjoy starting to wind down now & not be stressed out. He sounds like a spoilt child, I know in your earlier postings you said that he had no real Dad around, but was his Mother overly protective? He sounds like he is used to getting his own way. I have had ups & downs with my own Dh of 15 yrs, but nothing like you are going through. I said at one point that I wanted a divorce as my Dh had not told me he loved me since I found out I was pregnant with our 2nd Ds, which was Dec'99 I have mentioned it a number of times but to no avail, when I could not take it any longer I said "enough was enough" and that he had to go, he went up stairs packed a suitcase and when he came down our
21/2 Ds said he wanted to go out with Daddy, at which point my Dh broke down crying (which was a first)and then my son and myself I realised that I really did not want him to go, but at the same time I could not go on as things were, that was 3mths ago and things have improved. It made me realise that although I thought that he was killing my love off with his attitude, I still really really loved him and could not imagine our home without him.
I know this may not be alot of help to you, and I agree perhaps Relate could be the anwser, but also could you imagine not having him in your life? Would he really be able to be honest with you if you asked him will he ever forgive you? How long does expect you to take this kind of crap? Because how does he expect his life with you to be more "full-filling" when he is the one with the problem and he is the one that will make you both ill.
I am not trying to preach just offer my own views.

[Jacquikd]

Wornout, thanks for your message.

To be honest, no, I cannot imagine not having him in my life. I do really, really love him and I honestly want to be with him but he is definitely changing (and I can't say it is all for the better). What with all the going out, etc. I am not saying I want him to be a hermit and stay in with me all the time, but I feel I do need some sort of support from him. I am just feeling so insecure, lonely, unloved, etc. at the moment.

It is really good for me to chat on these pages as I feel I can be totally honest. I have only one "really good" friend who knows all of my history and who I feel I can be totally honest with.

[Wornout]

Well now you have a complete palethra (God knows how that is spelt!)of friends, and I am in complete agreement that this is the time when you need support and love. Very few of us are experienced in this field to offer advice, it just comes from the heart and the experiences that we have endured.

[Lizzer]

Jaquikd, hope this weekend works out better for you. It seems you are right in saying that he somehow 'enjoys' treating you this way. I'm sure my ex felt the same towards me, in some kind of power trip way. Keep reminding yourself that you deserve respect at all times, you are carrying his child and he shouldn't be giving you this kind of c**p at all. It's really hard for some people to understand why you can let yourself put up with this but I really know how you are feeling in that respect. Basically you are willing to do whatever it takes to build up the relationship to it's former levels of happiness. I don't want to put a downer on anything but what you really need to ask yourself is does he? Or would he be quite happy to keep treating you like this forever as he's getting the best of both worlds at the moment: you, the kids and his freedom whenever he wishes, because all he has to do to get his own way is bring up your past. Please, please take care and keep in touch....