Would you find it unusual that there are no SATs result (for year 6) that are above expected attaintment?

[FlashTheSloth]

A little while ago there was an article in the local paper about primary schools and how they rated, this wasn't based on OFSTED but took into account a wide range of issues and came back with a score that then ranked the schools. I remember reading the same last year.

For the last 2 years, my DCs primary school has had NO SATs results that were above expected. So not a single child in year 6 in 2 years achieved above the expected level. That seems surprising to me. The Year 6 teacher is also a fantastic teacher, but not competitive in any way so wouldn't be interested in pushing any children 'up,' in fact the school in general has an air of 'as long as everyone is in the middle then that's good.'

DS is having 11+ tutoring, and he really enjoys it. It's because he is being challenged and school doesn't challenge him as it's all about middle attainment. His Year 5 teacher told me that's why he would enjoy it, and its true. DS and a small group have always been a group at the top of the class so I stuggle to see how they are the ones that are at expected levels, not exceeding. DS is feeling very fed and frustrated at school at the moment.

[user789653241]

Are you sure nobody achieved above expected? Isn't that an average attainment of the school? My ds's school's results are below national level, but I don't think everyone has achieved below average.

[SingaSong12]

Do a lot of parents withdraw their children so that results may not reflect all the children in the year group.

[Norestformrz]

I'm confused are you basing this on a system in your local newspaper or on the actual data?

[FlashTheSloth]

There are results for expected and below expected levels but nothing for above expected.

It was reported in the paper, there is a system of how they come up with the results, I can't remember exactly what but it's based on lots of things, not just SATs results but in the break down of the final score, the SATs results form part of it. Attainment for boys is also way way below the national average which is disappointing.

[brilliotic]

Flash, if you go to OFSTED website, 'find a report', look for your school (e.g. by distance from your home), then click on your school. You should see a tab 'further links' where there will be a link to the 'official' data, esp. Y6 SATS results. (Have written this from memory, sorry if it is a little wrong)

You can then check, beyond a local newspaper's somewhat dodgy ranking, what the results actually were.

What you find there notwithstanding, there is a problem if your child feels unchallenged and bored, and has 'untapped' potential. You could raise this with his teacher, in a non-confrontative way e.g. 'DS is really enjoying his 11+ tutoring, I think it is the challenge, I believe he could achieve more (and would enjoy it) if he were challenged more at school - what do you think?'

[BarbarianMum]

I don't think you can get above expected for SATs now, except in writing. Its more a "are you over the expected line or not" sort of test and there are maximum scores which still count as "expected"

[MrsPreston11]

Yeah there's a school round here that never achieves any "higher" and who's expected level is always down in the 30s even though every other school in a few miles are over 60%, a good few in the high 80s and 90s.

I can never get my head around why that school is always oversubscribed.....but it is.

Guess I'm a SAT snob?

But if literally no kids are getting the above expected level and the national average is 60% yet the school is only getting 30% to a certain level then that really spoke volumes to me and we never even viewed it.

[user789653241]

There's only two things you can do imo.
1: Speak to school and ask them to provide him adequate work for your ds.
2: Just give him enough resouses for him to progress further.

Only thing I can say as a parent of a very able child is that I really couldn't care less if dc does good or not, since even getting 100% on Sats doesn't mean the child is exceptional, with new test.

[user789653241]

2: *at home

[ihearttc]

What are they actually reporting though? DS1 is in Year 8 now so did SATs 2 years ago (he was the first year with the new SATS). He got 111 for Maths, 109 for SPAG and 108 for English so definitely above expected but it was only reported to parents as expected. I didn't think they could get above expected in KS2 SATS. His best friend is a talented mathematician and got 120 (full marks I think) on Maths and still only got expected.

[Norestformrz]

Nationally only 9% of pupils achieved a "higher standard" in reading, writing and maths.

[BarbarianMum]

You can't achieve a "higher" standard in readjng or maths any more. Only writing.

[Norestformrz]

.

[Norestformrz]

Yes you can

[FlashTheSloth]

How on earth can full marks still be expected? That makes no sense at all.

Well, when DS started his tutoring, the tutor said he was behind the others in his group. I've long believed he was more able than he appeared and certainly more capable than the school seem to think. 4 months of tutoring and he has come on massively and his tutor is really impressed. Before he said if he did get into grammar school he definitely wouldn't be near the top ones, which I expected, but now he's saying that if he gets in, he will do alright. It's been amazing the jump in that time and I can really see the improvements, all because he is finally being challenged, which he is relishing. We have parents evening next month so I am definitely going to bring this up.

Will have a look at OFSTED tomorrow. So with the new score system, isn't 100 where they should be? I don't really understand it and much preferred the old number and letter scores which were easy and clear to understand.

[mintyneb]

Scores are between 80 and 120. You need to get 100+ to be at the expected level. However, if you get 110+ then you are considered to be at 'greater depth '

[BarbarianMum]

Ds1 scored 120 x3 in his SATs last year. He was marked as "expected" in reading and mathematics and "greater depth" in writing based on some supplimentary work his teacher had assessed.

[mintyneb]

barbarianmum that doesn't make sense to me. With scores like that he is clèarly working at greater depth in all subjects!

You're right, there isn't an exam for writing, it's teacher assessed but subject to lots of moderation that should be properly monitored

[user789653241]

BarbarianMum, I wouldn't really worry about what your ds' was marked. If he got perfect score for everything and writing, it just indicates he is extraordinary.

[BarbarianMum]

I'm not worried. I'm just saying that SATs score are largly binary and come as working at expected level/not working at expected level.

Sadly ds2 is likely to do similarly. I say sadly because his school has decided to sacrifice 2 years of his education to SATs practise (he's in Y5 and they've already started on test papers).

[CappuccinoCake]

I hate what the sats focus is doing to schools and education :(

[0hCrepe]

My dd was similar to barbarian. Got 118 in one and 120 in the others but it was recorded as expected level achieved.

[eatthepineapple]

I'm a secondary school teacher so not exactly sure how SATs are graded but are you sure that these "expected" grades aren't set by the school? I.e a high achieving child would be "expected" to achieve highly, and a lower ability child may be "expected" to achieve a lower grade. As long as they achieve what the school has "expected" them to, they have met their targets. The problem would be if they achieve a lower grade than expected, whatever the ability of the child. And if the school is constantly getting grades that are above expectation, it means that they have not accurately assessed the ability of the child in the first place....

As I said, I am not really familiar with SATs, but we have a similar thing for measuring GCSE results and expected progress throughout secondary.

Just a guess! I may well be wrong though!

[PhilODox]

Well I never! A private tutor saying a child was a long way behind...

Look on the DfE performance site to see the tables for your authority. There is a column "% of pupils achieving at a higher standard" and double-check what you read in the newspaper. Local papers are notorious for misreporting, particularly statistics IME.

I've just looked at my LA primary figures, and there are plenty of schools with 0% at higher... However, many of them have excellent progress scores, so they are schools with very low attaining intakes (well, yes, many have huge numbers of E2L pupils and v high turnover rates)
Trying to take the Special schools out of the calculation, but about 18% of schools (in my LA) are on 0% for that measure.

[0hCrepe]

Purely in terms of SATs test results though, you can’t get higher than expected. You can for the teacher assessed areas.