Moving primary school children from Scottish to English system

[dontrunwithscissors]

We're currently based in Scotland:
DD1 is almost 9 and in P4. She's an April birthday (2007) so one of the oldest in her class.
DD2 is 6 and in P1. She's a late January birthday (2010) & would have been one of the youngest in the class. We decided to hold her back a year, particularly because she has speech problems and is still receiving speech therapy--this is due to hearing problems when she was younger. There are no other educational needs.

I'm looking at the possibility of a job in England, to start September. I'm wondering how they would transfer over into the English system. I'm guessing it would be reasonably simple with DD1 in that she would go into P5.

However, I don't know where DD2 would fit in. P1? or P2? If anyone has advice/experience, I'd be very grateful.

[Grelton]

They would be in Year 5 and Year 2 come September. Are you sure you want to swap the Scottish education system for our over-regulated one with almost 50% of teachers wanting to leave in the next year?

[mrz]

We don't have Primary 1 in England school years are called Years are called Reception, Year 1 - 6 . A child who had their 6th birthday in January would be in Year 1 ( children with birthdays from September to August) so she would be one if the older pupils.

[dontrunwithscissors]

That's my uncertainty as to whether Reception year in England = Year 1 in Scotland? Children start P1 in Scotland at roughly the same age as they start reception year--the exception being that you can hold the very youngest children back in Scotland.

I don't know enough about what is taught at Reception to be able to make a comparison with what stage DD2 is at here.

Things aren't great in Scotland either! The place is falling apart. They're desparately short of teachers at DDs' school and it's the best primary in the city. I work for a Scottish uni and the whole of higher education is falling apart, whereas there are jobs aplenty in England. We need to get out while we can.

[prh47bridge]

Are you sure you want to swap the Scottish education system for our over-regulated one with almost 50% of teachers wanting to leave in the next year

Given the appalling state of the Scottish education system it I perfectly reasonable for people to want to move.

[EddieStobbart]

Is it really bad? My DCs school is great, so much better than when I was at school. Have we just got lucky?

[EddieStobbart]

My DB in England is completely depressed about his DCs education and the prospect of academies. He is thinking of moving back to Scotland (though he and his DP are in academia).

[BunnyTyler]

I've done this.

The Scottish school age year is from Feb/March to Jan/Feb; the English school age year is September to August.

Current P4 (Apr birthday) will transfer to Yr 4.
Current P1 (Jan birthday) will transfer to Yr 1.

They only go up to yr 6 in primary in England, so yr 7 (aged 11, turning 12) is secondary school.
(In Scotland they would have still been in primary for P7).

GCSE starts in yr 10 in England (so 4th & 5th year of secondary), rather than in S3 & S4.

[prh47bridge]

Is it really bad

If you are affluent the difference is not too acute. However, the differences become more marked the further down the scale you go. If you are seriously poor you are much better off sending your child to school in England.

In England 54% of pupils achieve 5 GCSEs at grades A*-C. In Scotland only 38% reach the equivalent standard.

[Lightbulbon]

Class sizes are smaller in Scotland.

I looked at moving but decided the Scottish system is preferable.

You can get a good state education in England if you pay for it via house prices or have a devout religion.

For the rest the Scottish system is more egalitarian.

No secondary moderns.
All teachers are qualified.
Guaranteed place at nearest school.
More flexibility in upper high school.

And private schools are cheaper if that's your thing.

[madwomanbackintheattic]

Dd1 completed p1 in Scotland, we moved in the summer hols, and she went into Y1 in the September. P1 is the equivalent to yr R. (She is also a late January bday). The only issue we had was explaining to her why she was going into yr 1, as in her head she was supposed to be starting p2. Once she realised that p1 was yr r, and p2 was yr1, it was fine.

[mrz]

Lightbulb On away from large urban areas it's perfect,y possible to access good state ucation without paying property premiums to move next door to the school.

OP reception in England follows the EYFS curriculum which is play based. Prime areas of learning are language for communication, social and emotional and physical.

Children learn to read and write and basic maths.

[mrz]

www.foundationyears.org.uk/files/2014/07/EYFS_framework_from_1_September_2014__with_clarification_note.pdf

[GreenTomatoJam]

We've just gone the other way kinda - from an English school (Sept to Sept year), to a US-style international school (Jan to Dec year), with DS1 who's 5 (and was the youngest in his class in the UK, he's right in the middle here)

We'd initially put him in the correct year for his age (only a month ago), but we're about to move him up a year (where he'll be the youngest again, but only by 4 months) because we found that he was just repeating work because the international Kindergarten was the equivalent of Reception , which he'd already done.

I'd suggest that you try to go by which years they've completed, rather than their age - our experience is that the US/International school here is using virtually the same curriculum, same worksheets from the internet etc. albeit with American spellings as they were using at his normal primary school in the UK - I expect Scotland/England will be similar.

[EddieStobbart]

I thought grade inflation has been more marked in English schools. Happy to be corrected but I haven't heard nearly as much debate about it in Scotland as in England.

[dontrunwithscissors]

Many thanks. Those examples are interesting--she should go to P1. Her speech problems are holding her back a bit so I would be happier with that.

[Lightbulbon]

mrz really? In a school that isn't affiliated to a church?

[mrz]

We have very few church schools and lots of school places

[KathyBeale]

Aww, your children are exactly the same age as mine. Mine are in y4 and y1 currently.

It's probably not relevant as it was 100 years ago, but I moved from Scotland to England as a kid and discovered I was so far ahead of my peers that school didn't know what to do with me. What I ended up doing was skipping y3 altogether but then the council wouldn't let me go to secondary early (even though I am a Sep birthday) and I repeated y6 which was awful.

[BunnyTyler]

Lighbulbon, I'm a bit confused by your comment - are you saying that there are no good schools with places available in England, unless you buy expensively or it is affiliated to a church?

[Lightbulbon]

I'll stand corrected if you can prove me wrong...

Wherein England can you buy a 3 bed family home with a local primary and secondary school you are guaranteed entry to that aren't church affiliated or in a grammar system and have high league table results?

I seriously considered a move south (had job offer) but felt I had to stay in Scotland if I didn't want my dcs education to suffer.

[Lightbulbon]

Forgot to put house must cost under £180,000.

[BunnyTyler]

I'm in Oxfordshire, previously Wiltshire, having moved down from Fife, previously Moray (since having kids), and all schools have been very good.

I'm especially pleased with the current area (West Oxfordshire) and the local comp is in our large village/small town.
It is not oversubscribed at all and you are guaranteed a place if you are within catchment (there are another 3 or 4 secondaries in the surrounding areas).

England is a really big place Lightbulbon - there's an awful lot of choice and decent schooling in non urban areas.

[Rhumba]

Not convinced schools in Scotland have smaller classes. My primary aged kid's school has classes around 30-33 per class. (and it feeds into one of the top state schools in the country!) Far from ideal!

[mummytime]

There have been lots of reports from people in Scotland who have children with SN, who are struggling because of the system.

In my town there are places you can buy (if you can afford it, prices are high everywhere) houses where you can guarantee your child will get into the local "non-religious" primary followed by the "non-religious" secondary. In fact you could from my house, but I sent my DC to the C of E Primary which is equidistant instead (and choose a different "non religious" secondary).
We don't have grammars in my county, which is one of the highest achieving nationally.

[mrz]

Try the North East Light