funded deferred entry - Glasgow City Council

[superstaary]

My son is 4 and a November birthday and I am trying to understand the process for applying for a further year of funded nursery.

I have spoken to the teachers about my concerns about my son not being ready to go to school and his emotional and social immaturity. The teachers have sympathised and confirmed that he can defer but there would be no automatic funding. They seem to think that as he's bright that he will be fine. I am not so sure, I definitely do not think that he is emotionally ready and I don't want to risk it.

I am looking for advice on what to do next. GCC has told me to ask the nursery to submit the application but I know that without nursery support it will just be rejected.

We can't afford to fund the place ourselves but it seems really unfair that my son will be at a disadvantage to a child whose parents can fund it or who is 5 weeks younger.

Any advice?

[APlaceOnTheCouch]

Are your concerns such that your GP would write a letter of support? I know in some council areas, parents have used letters from their GP to support the deferral.

[ASAS]

Agree I'm afraid, even with all the support from nursery the council do absolutely nothing it's not legislatively obliged to. Many FOI and "legal department" queries confirm this at our end.

Nov isn't late in the year necessarily so maybe if you go over some of your concerns we can offer advice. It's a good thing nursery think he'd be ready surely. Also google 'retained grading', most of the evidence is American but suggests that deferring is usually of little benefit and often the child misses out on learning during such a crucial period.

You have my sympathies though. Glasgow schools eh.

[ASAS]

GCCPrimary1 listening keenly to your thoughts and any wider insight you may have....

[ASAS]

Yip. Much as I thought. Keep us posted OP.

[superstaary]

Thanks for the replies so far. I am aware that I am unlikely to be successful without having to resort to an appeal, if at all.

I know that the teachers are saying he is ready, but I have also been told that they absolutely are not allowed to say anything else in this situation. I know my son and I can see the difference in comparison with his peers. At this age, he will potentially be 11 months younger than the oldest in the class and I think this difference is really clear to see. Whilst he might manage ok in P1 there is a lot of research that shows younger children remain behind and it becomes more obvious as they progress through school.

I feel as if I need to try and see if we can access a deferred place, going to school this year would definitely be a mistake. He isn't ready, he isn't mature enough and I can see him struggling, it just a shame that a 5 week difference in birth date mean we will need to fight for this.

ACAS your post indicates that you may have been in this position before, have you got some first hand experience?

[Doublethecuddles]

We are in Fife and my DS was born in November, I debated about keeping him back a year, but got no backing from nursery and sent him age 4 1/2 . He really struggled in primary 1, and didn't excel in anything. In primary 2, he started to find leaning in school much easier, but was still very slow with reading. He is now in primary 4, reading books in less than a week and in the second top maths group.
The one difference I do notice with him and his peers is he is slightly immature and babyish compared with them.
I did have a friend who held her DT back a year with no funding. One DT taught himself to read before starting school. It is a small school they go to and both DT are working mostly with the year above.

[TeacupDrama]

My Dad is December born she started august before 5th birthday, It is my understanding that funding only normally available for deferred Jan / Feb birthdays and Dec/ Nov need really good reasons like premature birth, while no one can insist he starts school until the next year as a Nov birthday there is no obligation to fund extra nursery, he has 5 months till august, that is another 10% life experience and growing up, someone always has to be youngest, but not all Jan/ Feb decide to defer so he may well not be the youngest, my dad is not quite youngest another girl is 10 days younger, shge is thriving, she was tired in first term but she would have been bored rigid still in nursery.

I can understand that it is upsetting for you but there has to be a cut off and I think Scottish system where all children are at least 4.6 when starting school is better than 31 #august cut off in England when some are just 4

Your DS is not borderline he is 3-4 months older than 1st march cut off he will be 4.9

Good luck anyway

[ASAS]

Super don't want to totally out myself so I'll say this:

I'm afraid the 5 weeks shy pov won't cut it with the council. We are 12 days out and as previous poster GCCP1 says, there's got to be a cut off point somewhere. It is what it is.

The council is, ime, full of brilliant staff who are usually parents too. They will, I must say, do everything possible to help but again for most their hands are tied. I'd raise your issue with the school Head asap and seek their advice of how to work closely with the school for your son.

If you really can't afford childcare for deferral, and I don't want to sound too mumsnetty here, is there some way you can work round this? Take a career break? Sorry, totally impractical I know but maybe you could consider it an investment.

Sorry you're going through this stress.

[suesue1973]

I am also trying to defer my son who's born at the end of the year, my application has been denied so i have appealed and waiting to hear back.
If you have any doubts what so ever then do everything you can. Although all the experts claim to know your child and know what's best for him, remember you are the expert on your own child and you know what's best for him.

Good luck

[Sleepymorningcuddles]

I know that the teachers are saying he is ready, but I have also been "told that they absolutely are not allowed to say anything else in this situation. "

Yes, that does happen...

If I understand correctly, you have a right to defer but no right to funding in the interim? Is that right?

[suesue1973]

I think the nursery's hands are tied and not allowed to encourage deferring unless there's major issues with the child. The fact is, GCC want every child to go to school when they are supposed to. It's definitely a funding issue, though at the same time, the funding is there for all Jan/Feb born children and not all of those children are deferring.

[Redroad]

Hi, I had the same concerns with DD1...I didn't listen to myself and was influenced by nursery teachers and DH and sent her on to primary 1. Fast forward to P 3 and she was really struggling emotionally, socially and academically. I had to fight tooth and nail to allow her to repeat P3. This involved very strong letters from myself to head of school and head of Education in the council . The school insisted that here was no benefit holding her back. I won in the end and they backed down. It was the best decision ever as she flourished with a younger peer group and had time to catch up. I fully believe all the opposition was funding motivated.
I would go with your instincts.

[TeacupDrama]

If your child was in England he would be one of the oldest year R is same as P1, while I would agree a child just 4 may struggle your son will be almost 5 when he starts school, you have no chance of a funded nursery place next year in Glasgow and would struggle in most areas unless he was premature or other special needs reasons

Your options are limited

1. Send to school
   
2. Ask if a place at his nursery and self fund
   
3. Defer and home educate for a year
   

Personally I would do 1, or 2 I think 3 would be a step backwards socially and though not necessarily educationally

[superstaary]

Thanks for all the replies I am speaking to the Head on Monday and asking her to put the forms in for me. I am well aware that it will be declined and that I will have to appeal. I was hoping that someone might be able to help with some info on what might be useful for an appeal, I was thinking I should try and get DS assessed by an educational psychologist.

Suesue are you in a GCC area? Good luck with your appeal when it comes, do you have a date yet? Please keep us updated?

Redroad what has happened with your DD your is what I am worried might happen with us, my DS might cope fine in P1 but its a couple of years down the line where I think the effects might show up. Its awful that you had to fight to get your DD allowed to repeat the year when its clear at that point that moving on isn't the best thing. I didn't realise that being able to repeat a year at school would be so difficult.

My DS is going to the local RC school and it doesn't seems as if many of the children at nursery are going there so there are no concerns about his peers moving on without him as that's what will happen anyway.

Teacup Drama as I understand it the first year of school in England is the equivalent of the pre school year at nursery but my concerns aren't about academic ability anyway. If we were in England then I doubt I would have the same concerns - as one of the eldest in the class I probably wouldn't be worried about my DS not being emotionally mature enough.

If the worst comes to the worst then we will need to find a way to get through and find the money somehow. It is just so frustrating knowing that GCC view is purely about money and that long term if children have to repeat a year of school it actually costs more. If it was truly a fair system then two full years should be funded for all children. As it stands my DS started at the end of January the same time as those children who are allowed to defer automatically so he has had a full term of nursery less as did the other children with Nov\Dec birthdays.

[Redroad]

We are in Ayrshire, so different council. I would write a very strong personal letter to head of education outlining your concerns and the long term implications if he went ahead...I would exaggerate if necessary, citing extra help in class etc down the line( more money!). I think they don't want to set a precedent by letting one through as then they will have to let others too. But worth writing yourself, following it up with phonecalls and generally making yourself such a pest that they agree just to make you go away!! Good luck.

[TeacupDrama]

No unfortunately super starry, the first year of school in England is the same as P1, they learn to read etc, more play based than Y1 but essentially P1 not pre school nursery.

my niece is in YR in England my DD is in P1 they are essentially doing exactly the same work different reading schemes, nieces more phonics based, the only difference is that both are December birthdays but niece is in the oldest 25% and my Dd the youngest 25%

I do think there has to be a definite cut off date, I think it would be better with a set date with no deferrals then everyone would know exactly where they stood. I think Scotland is better as children 4.5 - 5.5 rather than 4-5 as I think just 4 is too young for formal school

I think your idea of 2 full years funded is good so you would get funding until end of December which would leave 2 terms to self fund.

[suesue1973]

I know someone who appealed back in 2012 for their child born in Dec, they won their appeal and got funding, so it is possible. They don't encourage appealing and don't mention that it's allowed, so i'm thinking lots of parents will give up after 1st knockback. After the psychology report, though i'm told that is not necessary and it will just delay the process anyway. identify your concerns and use supporting documents from the GCC website and other info you can find that will help your case, eg how children born late in the year get less time in nursery, maybe mention the benefits of starting later in other countries, news articles on the subject, i've not heard back yet but I will keep you posted.

[Seryph]

I have to say I agree with Teacup, if this was England you wouldn't have the choice and you've said that you feel he would be alright.
As for emotional maturity I work with a little boy who has a February birthday but his parents chose not to defer, and he manages fine, even though the oldest child's birthday is a week before his (but a year older) and he is the youngest.
If you think he could cope academically it probably isn't worth keeping him back, especially as his friends will be moving on. It won't be the case that he'll be in a class entirely made up of children who were deferred, many will be your DS' age too.