A foreign mum's perspective: Our experiences of Primary School...

[MyOneAndOnly]

I am sure this specific subject about parental involvement in your child?s schooling, has been done before many times but recently I started to think long and hard about it again and my old discomfort in this subject has cropped up, I really need to get it off my chest.

I must add, I do not intend to criticise UK education system. I genuinely want to work with this system but from our own personal experiences, it does not seem to be very user-friendly, I genuinely feel that I am not part of it and I am hoping to gain some perspective maybe, if you come and tell your opinions.

My problem is: I have a 5.5 yrs old dd and I have absolutely no idea what is going on in her school life apart from bits of info that dd tells me when I ask her specifically. But they are not reliable info AFAIK as she is oly 5.5 and not mature enough to let me know what she has been going at school in reliable detail. Her judgement is influenced by how much fun she had during the day and she only tells me bits and pieces that made her happy or sad etc, such as her relationships with the other kids etc which are all emotional stuff which is fine but, I have no clue about academic stuff. And to me, being so clueless does feel wrong. I know I should be more involved, but how? There are no parent helpers in her class, not sure if there should be, so, I cannot volunteer.

I am originally from another country and therefore I have experienced a whole different style of schooling and it is very different to my DD?s schooling experience. I have the following immediate reasons why I feel uncomfortable:

1-) One of the reasons is because it is a mixed year class combining year 1 and 2, total of 30 kids ranging from 5.5 years old (my dd) to 7 years olds. All in the same class, sharing the same teacher?s precious time. How could it work out? Not very effectively, I think .

Okay, teacher gives individual targets to each pupil etc but how effective and reliable can they be within two different classes and within each class being many different levels? Teacher is only a young lady who is apparently in her third year of becoming a teacher. I totally respect her professionalism and her training but.. number of kids, range of levels within two year groups in the same class etc? it is definitely less than ideal, even for an experienced teacher who has been doing this work for years.

2-) Where I came from, there are text books in the schools. Parents buy the books at the beginning of the academic year and parents can see at a glance, what the kids are going to learn throughout the year. These books are guidance for kids and parents and it is the backbone of what they learn week by week, month by month, all year. Parents can assess where their kids are struggling or doing well etc and also can supplement these subjects with extra curricular stuff. It is a golden opportunity for parents to feed the child?s mind at home, with the curriculum related info. If I know that she is learning about, for instance; sea creatures (or whatever else it may be), I may take her to an aquarium or museum etc or even talk about it etc but if I don?t know that, I will not. So, currently I feel that what she is supposed to be learning, is staying within the school, it is not getting supported at home. A missed opportunity.

There are no text books, no other source of info apart from once a week spelling sheet and three times a week reading books? These are precious years when kids? minds are so open to knowledge. It is a short lasted window of opportunity but we are not using it to our advantage because no feedback from the school in the form of some lesson plans given to parents. Am I totally missing something?

One example: apparently she had learnt about Florence Nightingale before Christmas and I only found out about it recently. Had no idea. I could have taken her to a museum on a weekend. I still can do it now but the high-time is gone. It is a missed opportunity. Whatever subject covered in the class, stayed in the class. Such a shame.

3-) Also in my opinion there should be end of term personal progress reports showing child?s level in each subject and how it is developing. So parents can see how the child is doing and take remedial action before it is too late. It also opens up communication between teachers & parents. Surely, it is very useful. Some people may say it is unnecessary competition and puts kids under pressure too early. In my opinion, there is nothing wrong with knowing your level compared to what is expected of you, it is a very positive thing. The pressure of knowing your level, can be handled sensitively and beautifully and it could turn into a win-win situation. Personal progress report in written form should be available more frequently, at the end of each term. And definitely NOT once a year which is at the very last day of academic year when there is no room for even slightest discussion. This is what happened to us last year. At the very last day: this is your report, here you go!

This week dd?s school has coffee morning where I will have a chance to talk to the headmaster as well as teachers. I would appreciate it if you other parents, tell me what you think about all these.

Thanks a million in advance and sorry for the long essay.

[ruddynorah]

Depends on the school. Ours is rated outstanding by ofsted. Part of the rating marks communication between home and school. I know exactly what ds is doing this term and am given a list of topics each term with ideas for home support. We also have the normal parent evenings and drop in sessions.

I also help out in class once a week which gives me good insight. Is this an option for you?

[MyOneAndOnly]

Thank you very much ruddynorah and Euphemia.

"Part of the rating marks communication between home and school. I know exactly what ds is doing this term and am given a list of topics each term with ideas for home support. We also have the normal parent evenings and drop in sessions." Yes ruddynorah, this is what I wanted to know: how other schools are doing it... I will ask a list of topics and see how it goes.

And "I would expect one Parents' Evening per term, an interim report and a final report each year. That should cover the information you need. Otherwise, make an appointment to see the teacher and ask her about your particular concerns." Again an interim report sounds exactly what I wanted to have. I will certainly ask.

Thank you.

[IndigoBell]

There isn't a set syllabus to follow in Y1 and a diff syllabus for Y2. So they will do (for example) shapes every year for years, and as your child gets better at it they will be given harder work (2d, 3d, etc)

So some kids in Y1 will be working above kids in Y2. It doesn't matter at all.

They work in national curriculum levels. Whatever year they are in, they have to work towards the next level from what they are on.

So if you could be working at a level 3 in Y3 or Y6 - but in both cases you would do the same work.

So basically, your fears about a combined class are totally unfounded :)

[ninani]

I think I know what you mean. Schools do give topics but they are a bit too general. A few sentences to describe a whole term's learning.

I have also asked the teacher if the older ones are given any books but she said no. Then how are they supposed to study at home what they have learnt? Where I come from the government gives the books for free from year 1 until A-levels. When students start private tuition then they buy different reading material as well. But many people heavily critisize the lack of alternative reading materials.

Personally I found the publisher's website, downloaded and printed some of the school books And I have also printed lots of worksheets from websites that most of you must have visited and bought books for ks1 that teach the curriculum to get an idea and help our son. Now how much of this is actually going to get used I really don't know!! Even if the school doesn't give much guidance about what they are doing on a daily basis then I can have some idea myself. I remember my mum getting the school books and check every day what we had to study for the next day, at least for the first 2 years. She could help me quite a lot so I knew before hand what the teacher was talking about. When I grew older if she ever saw me finishing my studies for this day "too early" she would check my daily schedule. I remember her once checking "so history for tomorrow, ok lets start and see what you have studied". She was right

On one hand it is good that if you are in the top group you can have classes with the more abled students (although in our son's school they just keep promising classes with Y1 and FYI we as parents have never asked them for it but were glad to find out it "would" happen) but on the other hand how would a low-ability child perform if his teacher spended half her time with children of the year above instead of proving more topics exclusively for this year's children? Wouldn't 100% interaction with the topics that they have to cover give them more practise?

[ninani]

Ok, IndigoBell opened my eyes as well regarding mixed classes :)

[onimolap]

There are plenty of schools that communicate and teach in a way you would recognisable, MyOneAndOnly, but they are to be found in the private sector.

[MyOneAndOnly]

Thanks IndigoBell for your reply, I do appreciate the assurance too. I am sure it works for majority but really I am still not very clear though. Okay, I do understand that they do shapes, for instance, for years and years, but difficulty level of this work, go up as the kids advance in years... But still, how do I support that at home? We took shapes as an example, so I will give my immediate question about teaching shapes to my child: how do I support it? Do I talk about the names of the shapes? She knows already, too simple... Do I teach her how to calculate the volume of a cube? Too complicated.

So how do I know what is average for her age with what kind of variations? In the absence of a text book, this is very vague for me.

Total lack of homework is another problem to me but I will not concentrate on it for now.

My main problem, is not knowing what is she learning and how well she is learning, also if she is not learning, how to remedy it timely.

I had a brainwave and I thought maybe I could get a sample lesson plan from Home Education people in the local council: Perhaps I could ask them the list of topics and levels and the ways of teaching all these, in a written format to keep as a home-support system, as if I am home-educating my child. Not sure if the council will be willing to give me that info?

[MyOneAndOnly]

ninai and onimolap, thanks for replying too... I am gathering my thoughts about what to write next.
Oh, the private sector, I know...

[mamasmissionimpossible]

Sorry no advice. I just wanted to say that my ds' school isn't very good at the home-school communication. I only have a vague idea about what goes on in the 6 hours he is there. I find it very frustrating, as I would like to be more hands on. I hope you manage to find a solution.

[MyOneAndOnly]

Thanks mamasmissionimpossible. I bought some Letts books but they are far too general and only cover simple maths and reading/spelling. I will ask about detailed lesson plan and see what they will say.

[SnapFrakkleAndPop]

The thing is that the curriculum isn't very specific throughout primary compared to, say, France which has very defined learning objectives relayed to concrete knowledge each year. The Home Ed people wont be able to give you a list of topics and levels. In the UK what you teach your child at home is neither prescribed nor controlled by the state.

Home-school communication is often a case of what you put in, you get out and is often done via more informal means such as chats with the teacher, parents evenings. If other parents feel the sane way then the school should be encouraged to change its strategy whether on progress reports or notification of advance planning.

As far as extending work goes assess what your DC can do and extend that. Okay clearly calculations of volume are out but the concept of volume increasing as the sides get longer may nor be beyond them. Shapes lend themselves to more mathematically than just naming of volume calculation - which is bigger? How many triangles make a square? How can you cut the circle in half? There are educational resources put there, such as Bond assessment papers, but in the early school years focus should be on acquiring a solid foundation in handwriting, reading, basic numerical skills etc. They're not 'learning' fixed things.

The teacher in their third year of teaching has already undergone substantial training - possibly up to 4 years specialised in primary teaching.

I understand that coming from a different system the UK may seem to have a very relaxed and disorganised attitude but if you are concerned the school isn't doing all it could you need to raise it with them, because some do all you've described and more (with the exception of textbooks!).

[ladybirdlittle]

nationalstrategies.standards.dcsf.gov.uk/node/18687

this would give you some idea for maths and if too easy look at y2.

[mathanxiety]

I can only imagine your frustration.

My DCs' school sends home a weekly schedule showing what they're covering for the coming week, up to age 9 or 10 and encouraging me to do extra on whatever topics will be coming up. They have textbooks too, just as I had growing up in Ireland. The teacher calls if there's a problem, as happened with DD4 and her times tables a while back.

Maybe this wouldn't be possible with a mixed age room, but if the school has a website, could the teacher post the class plan for the week there? Even general weekly plans for the different groups that probably exist in the room? They did something like this at my older DCs' high school in the US, so no-one would come in and say they had forgotten their homework and parents could double check that the DC wasn't lying about homework just to get out with friends in the evening.

[MyOneAndOnly]

SnapFrakkleAndPop, you gave me some valuable info, I have not heard about Bond assesment papers, will search them now. These are the exact type of things I am looking for, thank you for understanding exactly what I mean. I was frustrated with lack of a solution in my mind.

" The thing is that the curriculum isn't very specific throughout primary compared to, say, France which has very defined learning objectives relayed to concrete knowledge each year. " Yes, this is exactly what I was expecting to get.

And you read my mind, I believed that the teaching in the UK was more " relaxed " compared to what I saw in other countries.
I believe that the system here put great emphasis on kids being able to rely on themselves to gather info when required . Not necessarily know things but rather, know where to find things . That is the impresion I got over the years, in my professional life here.

I observed that in the UK, selective private schools teach kids all sorts of things, overloading them with important things as well as trivia, but in the end kids have to learn a lot, about lots of subjects. In some other countries, bogstandard state schools do that and parents complain about unnecessary trivia being loaded onto innocent kids' minds. Impossible to please everybody.

Anyway, our school is a bit closed to parents, there are some invisible barriers. Still, I will do my best on coffee morning this week, raising all these points.

As for other parents in dd's school, feeling the same way as I do ? I dont think other parents are as concerned as I am.

My heart sinks that I have chosen a wrong school for dd and ironically I fought so hard to get into this school in the first place, going onto waiting list, having meetings with the previous headteacher, getting letter from my gp supporting my application for this school... All because I did not know then, what I know now...

Thanks again...

[ruddynorah]

What attracted you to this school then?

[UniS]

DS started school in Jan. Our experience so far has been different from the OPs. We had home from school in the first 2 weeks of term

-Targets in maths by end of reception sheet

• How we teach reading in this school booklet.
  

-A sheet of Phonetic sounds and actions they will be covering this term.

• a sheet about the topic for this half term ( our bodys) and what that would involve in the 6 curriculum areas.
  

at the end of most weeks there has been a note stuck in his home school book details which letter sounds they have worked on that week.
SO I know that during this block the role play area will be set up as either a Drs, a hospital, an optician, a dentist, and baby clinic etc . They will be finding out about their senses and how peoples bodies work, so it was no surprise to find a skeleton in class this morning or a mum and baby visiting them yesterday, last week they all came out with different coloured goggles they had made to look though and see how it changed their sense of sight. We have been able to pick library books about senses and look at how my body works type books. Its been a good set of info sent out from school.

[MyOneAndOnly]

ladybirdlittle and mathanxiety and UniS,thanks for your replies too.

I will look into nationalstrategies.standards website later. Thanks ladybirdlittle. The problem is, there are lots of resources, I registered to various websites and there is information overload but how too much info from every angle and it is also frustrating to find the one that is most consistently the best for us. All these, require me to do lots of search and lots of work and planning, only if I knew how to apply them to our life! I am not a tecaher, I wish I was...Nothing beats the spot-on input from the very teacher that prepares these lessons for dd's class. Shame that I am having to look at elsewhere to find out what my child is learning at school. And not only having to look at elsewhere, I also have to make an accurate assesment about which level she is and how I can expand it. I have very good intentions to support her but I do not know the methods op top of my head. For instance, SnapFrakkleAndPop 's suggestion about extending DD 's learning about shapes, by asking her how many triangles make a square etc, is brilliant but I could not think of it myself...

[MyOneAndOnly]

Ruddynorah, prior to choosing the nursery for dd, which is part of our primary school now, I visited lots of schools and spoke to headmasters, if they were available. This school stood out because at the time there was a very effective headmaster in charge, he was the most open person I had seen amongst all the schools I had visited. I had only meant to see him for half hour only but once we got talking, my visit lasted more than an hour, we talked about all my concerns at the time and he understood perfectly what my worries and vision are... We had a great rapport. He really believed in his school and was proud of his school and it was a good school in terms of league tables etc. That was all very good.
At the time I did not know that he was going to retire at the end of the year.
We were offered another school by the council & I refused it and asked to be out on waiting list at our current school. The headmaster, even helped us to jump through the waitlist as he apparently have some saying in the matter of who gets in and who does not. So from 15th place on waiting list, we managed to get in!
So nursery was okay, only 2 hours and 15 minutes a day which was neither here nor there but, then reception class, with new headteacher and lots of new tachers, ours was a part time teacher only worked 4 days. So every Wednesday DD's class used to get yet another person to cover. Alarm bells started to ring in my head but waited. Now we arein year one and this is where we are...

[SnapFrakkleAndPop]

The 'problem' with the UK is that if you're an educationalist by training the system makes a lot of sense. I find the French way of doing things frustrating in comparison because it doesn't permit individual levelling and learning to the same extent. But the flexibility which is a strong point makes it impenetrable to those who have no training or experience within the educational framework being applied. So really I cheat by coming up with suggestions for extending learning because I have insider knowledge although I can see that without that knowledge it's impossible to grasp.

The good news is once you get into the mindset it's very easy!

Perhaps if you come from a comparatively rigid system doing dome research into even more flexible and child-oriented approaches, like the IB primary years programme or the Montessori method may help you understand the philosophy of the UK system a little more?

[SnapFrakkleAndPop]

On the 'PT' front all teachers have about half a day of planning time and coordinators usually have another half day. Some if my friends are FT teachers but only teach 4 days.

Do you have your DD's end of EYFS report?

[MyOneAndOnly]

I am seriously considering having a teacher assistant training by distant learning. I do not necessarily want to work as TA but it is the only quick way I can think of, to learn the ropes of how to relate to the way they learn...

[MyOneAndOnly]

Hi SnapFrakkleAndPop, is EYFS report the same thing that we had at the end of reception year? Which is the end of year report.
If so, then yes we do have that report which does not say much. No clues there, to my untrained eye.
I understand that in the UK, a more child-oriented approach is being used and I cannot do anything to change it (not thatI want to, anyway) but I am trying to find ways to be more involved in dd ' school experiences. I feel that without any homework or any feedback at home, we are wasting good learning opportunities. She is so perceptive to knowledge at this age.

[MyOneAndOnly]

All these bring another question: how can the system change in the schools? Who are the right people to talk to and raise my points? Apart from the head teacher? How about school governors?

And, would you write a letter to school and cc to governors? Asking for their comments?

I only want few bits of change, not the total overhaul. Would be wonderful to have a bit of extra homework, definitely need termly lesson plan to put us in the picture, and end more frequent feedback about how she is progressing, i think these are all we need to make it work.

How would you go about these without being too pushy?

[pointythings]

My DDs are in prefectly ordinary state schools and though they tend not to have textbooks, we do have good home/school communication. There are parents' evenings every term, during which you get a report on where your child is as copmared to the average for their age, where the teacher thinks they should be by the end of the year (whether above or below average, so a realistic individual target) and then for each academic area very specific targets to be achieved in the next term (i.e. 'to write longer compositions using complex sentences with a variety of openers and correct punctuation, using metaphor, simile and other devices to make the story more interesting').
For each half term we get sent a topic sheet which tells us what teh core topic will be and how it will be implemented in each curriculum area, along with what skills are going to be developed and taught.

So it's not just the private schools that do this.