12 year old daughter tearing the family apart and about to be kicked out of school.

[ohtheholidays]

I am at a loss as what to do anymore.I have worked with children in the past for many years.I worked with children that had a statement of educational need (SEN)I have worked with children that have a physical disability,I have worked with children that have no extra needs and I have worked with children that were struggling at school not because of an SEN or a disability but a chaotic or neglectful home life.

Our daughter has been really hard to live with and has been really hard work for any school she has attended since she was 3 years old.

She would get in to trouble at Nursery at 3 years old,she is my 4th child and this wasn't something I'd ever had with her 3 older brothers.The brother closest in age to our daughter is autistic and registered disabled.I would have thought he might have more trouble with school and home life but he's easier to parent and pretty well behaved at school.

We've always given her lots of attention and our time,none of the children miss out on school trips,fetes,days out,holidays,celebrations for Birthdays,Christmas,Easter anything really.

I've always been very patient with all 5 of our children,we have a youngest daughter,she is 7 and has a lot of disability's and is autistic(her autism is more extreme than her brother's)she can be really hard work at home but is getting better and is very well behaved and loved at school.

Our DD12 was 5 when our youngest was born,the unbelievable behavior with our oldest DD started 2 years before.

She started at Nursery and carried that on into infants school.She would be constantly internally excluded at infants.We removed our children from the school and home schooled for a year.Not because of our daughters behavior(we had 3 children attending the same school daughter and son at infants and second oldest son at juniors)but because the school was going seriously down hill,lots of other family's removed they're children just after we removed ours.

All 3 children went on to a different primary school,our second oldest got on extremely well there,our youngest son was a very popular student as well but our daughter started again within a few weeks of being there.There was no bullying,she was liked by the other children and they're parents.Constantly invited to play dates and party's,yet once again she started for the teachers.

She was internally excluded,she was suspended and then finally she was expelled.

We did everything we could,we supported both her schools and the nursery she'd attended.We attended every meeting the schools set up and we set up some of our own.We sort help and advice from different avenues.We tried punishments,we tried talking,rewards you name it we tried it!

She was accepted after a short while at a different primary school and they were amazing with her.She had one day of internal exclusion and we did have a few problems with bullying some her,some other students.So not all plain sailing but better than before.

Now she is in her first year of secondary school and My God I want to give up.She has been internally excluded,suspended for one day and yet again she will suspended on Monday next week.There has been physically attacking teachers,revolting language,attacking other students,cyber bullying.She hasn't been all to blame and the Head and her Head of Year have told us this.They say she is an easy target for some of the students as they say or do something and she bites and then gets in trouble.

We have tried to reason with her and explain to her that she is getting it double.They get away with hurting or insulting her and then she is the one that gets punished.The school agree with me and have tried to tell her the same.

She was the first victim of the cyber bullying,the attacks and bullying.The school are dealing with the other children.But the problem is she's done herself no favors because of the way she treats everyone else.

[ohtheholidays]

If you got all the way through that Thank You.

[BreadmakerFan]

I really hope you can get the support you need for her. Does she understand she is wrong to behave like this and does she behave everywhere else?

[CinnabarRed]

I have no practical advice, but huge amounts of sympathy - I didn't want you to think no-one was reading.

[SomethingFunny]

Sounds awful. I hope someone can give you some help. In the meantime: What has she said when you have spoken to her about it? This might help MNers get a little insight into her mind (maybe) a be able to offer help.

[ohtheholidays]

Thank you BreadmakerFan and CinnabarRed.

Yes she knows that what she is doing is wrong but she seems to think that the rules about anything don't apply to her.

No she is far worse at home,it is making me ill.I'm disabled and ill now I have been for about 6 years now.

She physically attacks my husband,she has attacked me before and her 3 brothers,it's very rare that she directs her anger at our youngest daughter thankfully or we'd have had no choice but to have her removed from the home unfotunately as our youngest child has a lot of health problems and is disabled.

She has stole from us,she has phoned the Police because she was told off.The Police came and one Policeman gave her a real telling off,he knew we hadn't harmed her but that she had attacked us.She nearly got herself arrested then.

I've never told any friends or family about any of this they would be so shocked,especially because of mine and my husbands experience with work and how we are as a family.

[BreadmakerFan]

I think you have to pull her up every time she misbehaves as she has to learn rules do apply to her, she's nothing special and is being very immature.

[ohtheholidays]

SomethingFunny she denies everything,she will either deny what she has done or will blame someone else for doing it.

She has sworn at me repeatedly this morning,I haven't done anything to cause any of this this morning and as soon as she has been told off for it she denies it,yet the words were barely out of her mouth.

[ohtheholidays]

BreadnakerFan we do every single time.It is depressing and extremely time consuming but it makes no difference to her what so ever.

She denies everything and constantly accuses us all of being in the wrong.Every time she has done something wrong she is disciplined and she hits out or kicks off straight away and it can go on for several hours at home or when were out.

[dietstartstmoz]

Has she had a cahms assessment or paed assessment? I think you or the school should push for this if she hasn't. I also think you need to ask for help from the school for a referral for family support as it does sound exhausting and so stressful for you all. Have you considered she could also be on the spectrum?

[dietstartstmoz]

My son has asd and lots of what you are saying about her behaviour sound like it could possibly be aspergers related? I definitely think a camhs referral would be the next step

[CinnabarRed]

I wondered about ODD, which I understand is part of the autistic spectrum?

[MiscellaneousAssortment]

I'd try and get a professional opinion and advice, it sounds miserable for everyone and out of the scope of normal child behaviour which is why I'd try and get advice...

[NickiFury]

I'm thinking ODD/ASD as well. Has she ever been assessed?

[vitaminC]

My dd1 has aspergers and your dd sounds very similar. I don't have any advice but things started to get easier at around age 14 after 2 years in boarding school! She's now 16 and actually quite pleasant to be around these days. (Although she still boards)

[BreadmakerFan]

Video her strops so she has to face up to her behaviour?

[TheFirstOfHerName]

I'm sorry to hear you are having such a tough time with her behaviour. I would agree with previous comments in that I think she needs a neurodevelopmental assessment, especially with the family history of ASC.

[ohtheholidays]

Thank you everyone for the support and suggestions.

She has had sessions with different specialists when she was younger.

We are seeking help from Camhs but it is taking ages.Our Dr now realizes how hard things have become for us all so they are now supporting us.Myself,my DH our daughters school and our DR's have now all contacted Camhs.

BreamakerFan we have had a camera on in the house for the safety of the other children.It just makes her worse.

[howabout]

Every sympathy for you and your dd. It is not easy being 12 and she has and always has had a lot to cope with. Middle child with disabled siblings either side and a parent with health issues. Also history of disrupted schooling. My normal middle child dd12 can be a pain and I doubt she or many others would cope with all this.
Do you have a young carers network she could access?
What sort of respite care do you have in place to give her a break away?
Are her 2 oldest siblings old enough to be able to take her out of her situation sometimes?
I just wanted to give her a big hug and a bit of an outsiders perspective.

[muffintop1]

This sounds so hard for you. My kids are younger but I do worry about how they will be in secondary school.
Do you think finding her a hobby or sport that she loves would help? Maybe it would motivate better behaviour and give her confidence and nice friendships? I do hope things improve soon for you.

[Finola1step]

Has she been assessed within ASD? Possible PDA springs to mind from your descriptions.

[ohtheholidays]

She attends Judo every week,she's really good at it and her Sensei is very fond of her and she's made a lot of friends there as well.

She's also part of a Gymnastics club and when she was younger she attended Gardening clubs,chess club,computer club and was a cheerleader also.Every club she has attended she's enjoyed and they've all been her choice.

She's done some work with a specialist Horse school where they use the Horses to help children.She loved that and were setting that up for her again.

howabout this behavior all started well before I became ill and disabled and before I had our youngest who is disabled and before her older brother showed any signs or behavior of being autistic.

Respite care and young carers I know there are a lot of children that are carers for disabled parents or siblings and I know that can be extremely hard I was one of those children.But that doesn't apply to any of our children.Honestly it doesn't.

None of the children are ever responsible for myself or either of they're disabled siblings.Myself and My husband really do do it all on our own.

Her 2 oldest brothers do take her out and they spoil her when they do,they'll take her into town,out for lunch,the cinema,the park,out with them and they're friends.

She has one on one time with me and she gets one on one time with her Dad.We manage to do that for all the children.

[fiveacres]

I know you say she has one on one time with both of you but still, there's a family with five children, two with additional needs. I'm not for a moment condoning her behaviour but could this be her 'thing', her 'identity' - I am the naughty one?

[ohtheholidays]

Finola1step no not so far and she has seen a few different specialists now.Were now just waiting to see what Camhs can help us do for her.

[ImperialBlether]

Have you heard of pathological demand avoidance - PDA? It's a part of the autism spectrum. Given two of your other children have autism, might this be possible?

[ohtheholidays]

fiveacres there were 4 children when this all started and my youngest son wasn't showing signs of autism then.

Just before she was 3 and I was trying to stop breastfeeding her she attacked me,it was so violently that it made both her oldest brothers scream,it frightened the life out of them and I was left with marks for weeks and a few scars that still haven't gone.