Struggling to answer DC questions about the meaning of life

[Howmanysyllabasisthat]

Eldest DC is not a typical teenager in many respects. Very thoughtful, questioning, highly academic wants to be a Doctor etc and apply to medical school. Always been a bit morbid and clinical about things like the dead rabbit etc didn’t get too upset - more than average life expectancy etc comments. When much younger I thought they were so matter of fact I wondered about the lack of empathy. That changed as they grew and they are kind and compassionate.

Lockdown is fine. Has thrown themselves into school work etc - great but...
Asking more and more questions daily on what on Earth the point of it all is? They have investigated all the religions and come to the conclusion they are all stories, no one having more rights over what is true than others. Been to church, synagogue, Hindu temple etc and really tried to explore them all. Thinks they are all made to make humans try to feel better that life has a purpose when it doesn’t. Has become very cynical - we work, pay tax, to support those that can’t, those that play the system or the elite. And then we die and are forgotten like little ants - was the comment today. I was a Christian but I don’t believe any more although I’d like to. Walking a popular walk that went past a cemetery today they asked to walk inside - lots of children graves, I got emotional and they said at least they didn’t have the stress of life, not meant unkindly but as in life is not hearts and roses but bloody tough. I’ve had a tough life and she sees others elderly and in pain, family trauma (one of her friend’s gran for example is estranged from her friend’s mum and everyone unhappy about it) etc and they are really questioning me on ‘what’s the point of it all?’ Their grandparents (my parents) are atheists who helpfully are ‘no point we are all work food. We live for holidays and nice weather etc - my Dc worries about me - my ex was abusive and has no contact with myself or them. I think they worry that I will be alone without them, but it’s all a bit depressing and morose. Any good books for them? Or things to look at? I told them today that philosophers have been looking at the meaning of life for thousands of years and we still don’t have a good answer. Any pointers? Conversation techniques of it.

What does anyone really think is the meaning of life?
Is anyone really happy? Etc are daily questions

[AbuDhabiYouDoYou]

I am no help but I think we all have to give meaning to our own lives and it's a great gift to have the ability to do so.

[RandomMess]

Tell him he is too young to have an existential crises!!!

Probably to love and be loved and give more to others than you receive 🧐

Or simply to survive. The will to survive is undeniable but difficulty to relate to unless your life is under threat.

[noego]

Perhaps there is no "meaning of life" and just life to be lived!!

Tao Te Ching is a good read if you can get a translation that is age appropriate.

[cunexttime]

I'd get your DC a copy of Sophie's World, excellent introduction to philosophy for teenagers.

[Vallmo47]

Is your DC depressed, OP? :(

[Shufflebudge]

There is no meaning to life as an individual. I believe this. I’m not depressed or worried though so unless they are, why are you? Sounds like some books on nihilism would be more appropriate

[Wigeon]

Many humanists are perfectly optimistic, happy people, finding meaning in their lives, without needing religion to structure their lives or give a religious meaning.

Lots of useful info/reading on the Humanists UK website, which your DC might find interesting.

[MuddyWalks]

To help others or do something that benefits our planet? Leave a legacy that on some way will be remembered after death?

[Howmanysyllabasisthat]

@Vallmo47

Is your DC depressed, OP? :(

I don’t think so. DC has always been matter of fact. Morbid at times in a non morbid way eg finds a dead pigeon aged 2 and just wanted to pull it apart to see how it work etc thanks for all the ideas.

[speakout]

There doesn't have to be a meanimg or point to life.

It just is.

I am happy with that.
And as long as I am here I will make my life as pleasant for myself and those around me as I can.

I think that's a far healthier approach than some religions who see this life as just a departure lounge for the great glory afterwards.

We are just Simians clinging to a rock as it hurls through space.

[Rainallnight]

These are all great questions for a teenager to be asking.

Sophie’s World as a PP said. And some more recommendations here fivebooks.com/best-books/philosophy-for-teens-andrew-brower-latz/

[thehairyhog]

@RandomMess

Tell him he is too young to have an existential crises!!!

Probably to love and be loved and give more to others than you receive 🧐

Or simply to survive. The will to survive is undeniable but difficulty to relate to unless your life is under threat.

I disagree, I think it's normal and age appropriate to wonder about these sorts of things whilst young. The meaning of life etc. I certainly did, don't as an adult, I just get on and try to enjoy life. You have more time for this sort of thing when you're younger

[Babdoc]

Life IS pointless, unless you have a religious faith. For atheists, this world is all you get, with all the unfairness, illness, poverty, war, etc. And then you die and face oblivion. What a bleak belief!
For Christians, we have the assurance given by Jesus, that He would prepare a place for us after death, in the presence of God. Where all wrongs would be righted, and God would dry all tears.
I know which I prefer. And after having been an atheist until I was 36, I was persuaded by a life changing encounter with the presence of God, at my DH’s funeral.

[lottiegarbanzo]

There is no point. We just are, because evolution happened. Life is a struggle. Shit happens (i.e. bad things happen for no reason). Probability determines that some people are very lucky, some very unlucky, most a bit of both.

If you think about life as a struggle, for survival and to achieve whatever you want to achieve, then any pleasure or leisure you experience is a bonus.

For many people in the world, life literally is a day to day struggle for survival. I think if you have time and comfort enough to spend time pondering the meaning of existence, if you are detached enough from physical need that satisfying that is not your first or only concern, you're already one of the lucky ones.

Perhaps like your dd, I don't see any of this as bleak. It's just factual context. Given all that, the fact that we can experience happiness at times, contentment over long periods of our lives, can achieve things, can make other people's lives better, can leave the world a better place than we found it, can evaluate the morality of what we do on our own terms and choose to live good lives... all of that I find quite joyful.

[alexdgr8]

i think your child sounds depressed.
or are they autistic.
either way, be careful. try to direct attention to future studies, career etc.
like open up discussion into why they want to be a doctor, what area of medicine most appeals, what do they think about how the current crisis has been handled.
ie keep it on something definite, and looking to the future, rather than morosely meandering around unanswerables.
each pick 3 people you admire and discuss why.
are there any family/friends in real life who could be an inspiration, someone to look up to.
all the best OP.

[lottiegarbanzo]

Some introductory philosophy will suit your teen very well.

The comment on the children's graves was interesting. Unusual. Most people enjoy life more than they don't, especially somebody high-achieving, likely to be able to fulfil their ambitions, like your dc. How about the value of lives being to the people who care about those people, not just the person themselves?

One of those 'simple but profound' sayings I came across, that works rather well I think (these sorts of things can so often be horribly trite) is, in answer to the question 'what is happiness?' the wise person wrote down 'grandfather dies, father dies, son dies'. The point is that death is not the point, or a problem. Living a full life, a complete life, is the point. There is a natural order of things, a season for everything. Achieving that might not seem ambitious but think about the effects on others if that happy order does not follow e.g. on the parents of those children.

There is an argument made by some philosophers that because life includes unpleasantness and we cannot chose it for ourselves, we would be better off if we were never born. Thus we should not create other people who do not ask to be born. That's bleak but interesting.

We are just glorified animals though and recognising the importance of our physicality, the close connection between body and mind, the health of one and the other, helps, I think. Consciousness is weird but, even if it's only there as an accidentally self-aware operating system, it's fun, so why not make the most of it?

[Merename]

Would they be interested in Buddhism? Lots of answers there as to meaning of life questions, but not an abrahamic faith (no god).

[EileenGC]

@Babdoc

Life IS pointless, unless you have a religious faith. For atheists, this world is all you get, with all the unfairness, illness, poverty, war, etc. And then you die and face oblivion. What a bleak belief!
For Christians, we have the assurance given by Jesus, that He would prepare a place for us after death, in the presence of God. Where all wrongs would be righted, and God would dry all tears.
I know which I prefer. And after having been an atheist until I was 36, I was persuaded by a life changing encounter with the presence of God, at my DH’s funeral.

@Babdoc has put it very well, this is what life means for me too.

I was raised a Christian so no big life changing experience for me, but I’ve had plenty of ‘what’s the point’ moments throughout my life. I’ve tried exploring many avenues, rationalised everything, but I always get to a point where I can’t explain things anymore. There is something else and if there wasn’t, there’d be no hope. This planet is an awful state, and it’s so reassuring to know it’s not all for nothing, and there will come a day when the world is made new again.

[lottiegarbanzo]

Interesting. I find a lot of freedom, fulfilment and joy in the fact that this world, this life, is all there is. That what we do in life really matters, because it is all we have.

[ChameleonClara]

A teen asks some philosophical questions and people diagnose depression or autism

Many young people choose A-level philosophy or RE to study these questions, they are fascinating and the most fundamental. I have never stopped wondering about these questions, since I was 15 or so.

My answer would always be 'I don't know, what do you think?' and see what they might like to read.

[lottiegarbanzo]

Also, I think they'd be interested in studying psychology. A bit on the mechanics and interpersonal context of how we are as we are, that can explain a lot of the mental experiences they will encounter but that does not demand or offer a 'why', other than evolution.

[VegetarianDeathCult]

I think your teenager sounds perfectly normal, and is having the kind of questioning moment all teenagers have. I think the minor oddities of this thread come from you, OP — it’s hardly that unusual for teenagers to be academically-minded or set on medical school. Any doctor you’ve ever attended was probably an academically-minded teenager AND probably before that a toddler who wanted to see how dead pigeons worked.

Are you grieving a loss, OP? Or mourning the loss of your own belief?

[lottiegarbanzo]

Also the stuff about her worrying about you and you finding that morose. It does sound as though you might be a bit depressed.

Can you make sure your future is secure, practically and financially as far as possible and your present and near future (post lockdown) happy and secure socially? So that you can demonstrate you'll be fine, busy, fulfilled in your own ways, after she leaves home? That she doesn't need to worry about you?

[ZenNudist]

Surely the point of life is to do things that give it meaning. For a lot of people that is creating loving relationships with family and friends. Work gives meaning for some. Creativity for others. I'm not sure my religion gives my life meaning but it does give me purpose. My religion is like the foundation on which I build my world because when everything else is gone I will still have God to turn to.

I think you talk to your son about what gives meaning to your world and encourage him to look around him and take enjoyment in little as well as big things. And try things to decide what could give meaning.

I get my kids to count their blessings from time to time on a universal/ global, national and personal scale.

Globally its amazing we even live as sentient beings on this rock in the middle of a vast universe. I could elaborate. Nationally its a happy accident of his birth to be born into one of the richest countries on earth, without the prevalence of natural disasters or poverty that blight the lives of so many. Personally I don't know. Has he his health? Loving family? Good friends? Good education? Has he just spent a weekend in leisure? Did he get good food to eat? That's before you get into looking for all the other positive the world has to offer. Beauty, human kindness or ingenuity etc etc. Sure there are bad things. They don't outweigh the good and there are others less fortunate.

Nihilism is a style teens try on. In time he will come to understand that life is a journey where it's less about the destination than what you do along the way.

[stclair]

The Alpha course or Life Course are good for this kind of discussion. I did one years ago when I was questioning it all.