I've completely forgotten why God doesn't intervene

[Alameda]

or isn't there a reason?

[Hopeforever]

We have free will, so we may ask for Gods help but he doesn't impose.

It's the difference between your father ( or main care giver) advising you what to do or telling you and forcing you

As to why God doesn't answer our prayer as we'd like, I'm sure. Any f us are waiting for Heaven to get our answers!

[Alameda]

what about children or animals who can't pray, but are suffering - how could he bear not to intervene, does he just watch or look away and pretend it isn't happening?

[Akermanis]

There is no God

[IHeartKingThistle]

I never post here so sorry if I get it wrong!

I had a friend who died of cancer at 22. He was a Catholic and did not lose his faith. I asked him at one point how he could reconcile that - his belief was that God only deals with souls, not bodies, not physical stuff. The way he put it was very clear and simple and probably much better than I'm doing right now! I don't know if I believe it myself but I was always glad it made so much sense to him.

[HerRoyalNotness]

It's the question of universal sovereignty. It was questioned by the angel that we know as Satan when he tempted Adam and eve. Satan is having his chance to prove that humans will not put faith in God and do his will unless everything is peachy keen for them. Similar to what happened to Lot. I think I is in revelations where it says the devil has been cast down, woe for the earth. He has a short time left.
God will be in charge again, it will get worse before it gets better.

[HerRoyalNotness]

It's the question of universal sovereignty. It was questioned by the angel that we know as Satan when he tempted Adam and eve. Satan is having his chance to prove that humans will not put faith in God and do his will unless everything is peachy keen for them. Similar to what happened to Lot. I think I is in revelations where it says the devil has been cast down, woe for the earth. He has a short time left.
God will be in charge again, it will get worse before it gets better.

[HerRoyalNotness]

It's the question of universal sovereignty. It was questioned by the angel that we know as Satan when he tempted Adam and eve. Satan is having his chance to prove that humans will not put faith in God and do his will unless everything is peachy keen for them. Similar to what happened to Lot. I think I is in revelations where it says the devil has been cast down, woe for the earth. He has a short time left.
God will be in charge again, it will get worse before it gets better.

[HerRoyalNotness]

Repetition for emphasis! Sorry about that

[IMeMine]

I never understand why people come on threads like this to simply state 'there is no God'.

When I was an Atheist I would have felt no need to even come near this section, unless to join in an active, open debate- not a thread asking a specific question about God as opposed to, say, 'does He exsist?'

[Bluegrass]

Oh I don't know, I think it is fair enough to answer honestly that the reason for god's failure to intervene is his non-existence! It seems a neater solution than twisting yourself up in knots to work out why an omnipotent and omnibenevolent god would also unleash a fucker of a parasite like the filarial worm to torment the lives of people who already have a pretty shitty deal in third world countries.

Personally if it were me I'd lend them a hand and with a click of my godly fingers magic those little bastards away. Then for my next trick I'd look at the misery caused by malaria.

An apologist would no doubt assert it is all part of his ineffable plan and that the misery and death of countless children is actually evidence of his overwhelming love.

If that were true then his ineffable plan can f off.

[SurprisinglyCurvaceousPirate]

What I struggle (really struggle!) to understand is how god never gets the blame for the bad/unanswered prayers but always gets the credit for the good.

Great job to have, where can I apply?!

[coribells]

I think you can only pray for strength and courage to deal what life (not god) has given you. Can God intervene to prevent catastrophie and Tragedy. I don't think do.

[GrapesAnatomy]

I'm struggling with this at the moment.
One of my loveliest friends is suffering with cancer that seems to be defying treatment. She has faith, she is good and kind.
I don't understand how this is ok? I have prayed for her so many times as must so many others. Can God hear me?

[seeker]

There are specific scriptural references to the fact that prayers will be answered- but they never are.

I can't understand why people continue to believe in the face of this stark fact.

[seeker]

Surely in an active and open debate on a subject like this there has to be room for the "because he doesn't exist" explanation? It would be a bit of an elephant in the room otherwise.

[GrapesAnatomy]

I want to have faith. The thought of a higher power and an afterlife comforts me but this is always the greatest challenge isn't it?
Why would a good and benevolent God allow such terrible things to happen, to ignore the prayers of his followers - what is the point of prayer?

[EmpressOfTheSevenOceans]

I have no idea whether God exists but I do have concerns about what HerRoyalNotness said. There's something in the bible about no parent would give their child a stone if they asked for bread, and God being so much more loving than that. Ok. If a parent gave an abuser power over a child in order to test their faith, would that be an act of love or would it be a crime?

[headinhands]

The problem with telling ourselves that god doesn't intervene because of free will, fallen earth and so on is that it doesn't square with the bible and the teachings of Jesus about prayer and gods providence while on earth. And then some will say its been interpreted wrong and then debate becomes impossible because there are no goal posts.

imemine I was previously a church goer, tounge speaking, hands in the air kinda gal. Since coming to the conclusion that there is no evidence of a loving god I find it really interesting discussing it with others because it's a debate where I have been on both sides of the fence at one time or another.

[AMumInScotland]

Would you really want to live in a world where cause & effect didn't work though? Where you could drive drunk, knowing that God would pull any innocent children out of your path? Where if you were ill and didn't get better, you knew it was because you were a bad person and deserved it?

If we have any free will at all, then our actions have to have consequences, and those consequences won't just affect us as individuals, because things interconnect. I can choose to buy fruit which has been brought halfway round the world, and my action contributes to global warming and some islander in the South Pacific is flooded out. Do you want God to stop me buying South African apples? Or to strike down the supermarket manager who stocked them? Or to blow the air currents back to how they should be, so we can keep on doing daft stuff without any harm done?

I think we can pray and God hears us, but that God usually acts by helping us to find ways of dealing with things for ourselves, or of accepting the fact that it can't be changed. I don't know how much intervention is possible - in theory I believe that God could intervene, but I don't think this world is set up in a way which makes that a good idea for the most part - it's like when you play a "God sim" computer game, once you start changing one little thing you end up spending ages tying down all the other loose ends that your single action created. Each intervention is more likely to make things more complicated instead of better.

I don't think this is because Satan has been given charge of us - that's definitely not mainstream Christian teaching - but I do think that this universe was created via processes of evolution, and that the things we experience as bad are often the results of that.

[seeker]

So why did god specifically promise to answer prayers, amuminscotland? And how about the line about what father would give his child a stone if he asked for bread?

[Bluegrass]

Given omnipotence it would be perfectly possible to create a universe in which there is cause and effect and a requirement for humans to make moral decisions without then also populating it with the most hideous diseases, viruses, parasites etc that cause horrific suffering to good and bad alike. It would take an active decision to want those elements to be in the world, all the while knowing that as a result many humans will then die in agony, often without ever growing old enough to even start making moral choices themselves (if that is indeed "the point" of it all).

The only explanation I ever hear is that we don't understand the bigger picture, and that in spite of all evidence to the contrary god really is good and hates to see us suffer. To me that is just doublethink. If there were really a god I would judge him/her as wanting, the universe deserves a better one. Being incredibly powerful and telling everyone you are good doesn't make it so, it needs to be demonstrated through actions.

[AMumInScotland]

I don't know - I assume the people who wrote those verses believed them. But I don't think it likely that they thought God would give them everything they asked for, just for the asking. Their lives were way more precarious than ours are, and they knew that praying for things wasn't going to just "magic" bread out of the dust.

[seeker]

But surely you would expect a prayer to be awswered occasionally? Why have the concept of intercessionary prayer if you know in advance that it isn't going to be answered?

[AMumInScotland]

Bluegrass - it might be possible, but it would be a world where there wasn't evolution over time, where every species was directly-created and static. I believe, for reasons I can't really clarify, that there was something important about the universe creating itself through a process of evolution, rather than from a set of blueprints. But I accept that I'm trying to explaian situation that is, rather than being able to imagine one that isn't, IYSWIM.

[AMumInScotland]

I think some of them get answered, when it's possible and doesn't conflict with other things or cause knock-on effects.