I think i have ruined my daughters' lives

[GodzillasNewYearsBumcheek]

By making them not fit in at school. Apparently they only get on with a very small amount of people in their school (which is quite a large school with several classes per year). The reason? They don't swear every few words and they don't smoke. the only other group of people there are in the school are what my two call the 'air-heads' because they are solely interested in clothes/make-up, or pretend to be to fit in.

i seem to have ruined my daughters lives by well-meaningly teaching them that swearing is not necessary, and teaching them to be individuals and not to follow the crowd.

Does anyone else have this problem? The reason i see it as a problem is because of the bullying that goes with it.

[BitOfFun]

As long as they have their own group of friends who back them up, I wouldn't worry. It sounds like a normal high school with different cliques- much like MN in fact! I have a feeling you will see some of that famed diversity after your post though...

[GodzillasNewYearsBumcheek]

They have so few people they get on with they couldn't be classed as back up!

about 4 friends between them!

[pointydog]

how old are your dds? Secondary, I take it?

[GodzillasNewYearsBumcheek]

If i moved them they would have the same problem, just further to walk! Same in all schools in this area. Whether i have literally ruined their lives or not would remain to be seen as i have become an adult with social problems due to the same kind of thing happening to me!

[LiffeyOink]

I'm sure the other parents haven't encouraged their children to swear and smoke! So don't assume that your parenting is superior. I think there is an element of pot luck about it all! Children have their own personalities and agendas, and often, how their parents see them differs wildly from the image they are determined ot present. But a lot of the time it's a temporary security blanket (acting tuff).

I know a few families who sent their children to the local dump and because their family had good jobs and qualifications etc, was supportive and valued education and music, they all ended up doing very well.

Often, in a school which is considered 'sink' the teachers will quickly identify which children want to do well, not just escape the teacher's attention!, and zone in on them.

[meandjoe]

i was like that. never had a huge amount of friends, certainly never quite fit in. i never really wanted to tbh. i had my own friends, enough to keep me happy and i hated all those 'air heads', just saw them as bullies really. i hate people who make others feel inadequate!

i think people like this tend to form more meaningful friendships and relationships rather than just being friends with whoever is 'cool'.

me and my best frind never fit in at primary school, were total outcasts. we got a few more friends at secondary school but never popular cos we didn't smoke or have sex or have the best make of trainers etc. we are still best friends now and always will be. you haven't ruined their lives, they just aren't shallow bitchy bimbos. they have the confidence to be themselves. they will thanky you for it one day!

[backalleysally]

I dont believe that everyone else at the school except your daughters friends and a few airheads swear and smoke.

Every school has a group like this but I would be concerned if the majority group at the school were like this.

You havent ruined their lives. Would you rather they smoke and swore just so they fitted in?

[pointydog]

A few of you assume this is a terrible school. I'm wondering why. These sort of attitudes are very common among young teens and pre-teens.

[LiffeyOink]

Go and talk to the teachers at the school. Does the school have good facilities? Where do your daughters aptitudes lie?

I started out in a large comprehensive type school, and it had excellent facilities, a swimming pool and fabulously well-equiped gym, language laboratories, attached music school, (Loan of instruments) and even theatres, with all the associated lighting and sound equipment.

A child who is not academic but who has his/her family behind him, and teachers onside (not alienated by snobby parents) can and will do well.

I would keep an eye on the situation though, make sure your children aren't amongst the few who do fall through the net.
But that happens at any school.

[GodzillasNewYearsBumcheek]

Yes they are at secondary.
The majority of kids do swear and/or smoke. Or if not they try to fit in in other ways by having the latest whatever. don't believe me if you like, i am not 100% sure myself, this is all based on the conversations had with my daughters.

Oh, and i don't recall saying i thought my teaching was superior.

[LiffeyOink]

ps, like meandjoe, I always knew I wasn't going to smoke. It was character building at times! I had to go and find a completely different set of friends at about 14, as I didn't want to spend all of lunch time on the hockey pitch hiding my cigarettes from teachers.

But that strength of my own mind came from my mother.

My school days were hardly Gordonstoun btw!!!

[idobelieveinfairies]

There will always be groups of children that do/are allowed to do different things to yours....i have the problem with mine.....so many children drink....and their parents buy the alcohol for them ...i am not one of them and have taught my children that you can have fun without drinking...the only good thing is that the children do respect the girls/boys that don't want to drink within that group, which is great.

You haven't ruined their lives...you are doing their livers/lungs a big favour

[pointydog]

yes, janny, there are very very few secondary pupils who don't swear. I've told dd1 just to swear back (when being verbally hounded). As long as they know when to swear and when not to, I don't mind.

I think following the crowd is very important to young secondary kids.

But do your dds want to swear, do they want to have some of the in things, zilla?

[GodzillasNewYearsBumcheek]

My kids do swear - just not the type of swearing i hear from lots of people (teens and younger/older) which goes to the excess that every sentence contains swearing. I swear myself so i would be amazed if my kids never ever uttered bad language. They aren't allowed to swear at home though, and i tend to apologise if i slip up.

My DDs both have spelling difficulties and are slow at writing so i think they quite probably overlooked. The content of the work is generally good though. And they don't excell at sports (neither do i) so don't find their niche where that is concerned either.

[clam]

What age are we talking here? OP's profile says her DDs are 11. My DS is 12 (Year 8) and pretty mainstream in terms of trendiness, fitting in, mates and so on. He's at a normal, good comprehensive. He never swears, despite hearing me and DH do it regularly. In fact, not long ago, on overhearing me lose patience with the construction of an IKEA wardrobe and letting rip verbally, he said, rather wearily, "Mum, please! If you must swear, can you not use 'bother' or 'shoot?'" DH worried for a bit that we were raising a pious so-and-so but, as I say, he's normal in all other respects.
But I'm fully prepared to expect that all this might change in a few years' time!

[GodzillasNewYearsBumcheek]

No they don't Pointydog, which is why i am very proud of them!

But can't help but think i have encouraged them to be like this and wondering if they will be miserable for the rest of their time in Secondary (this is their first year).

[pointydog]

what age are they, zilla? In teh first two years of high school, a lot of jostling for position goes on. Most pupils will feel insecure and on teh sidelines at some point, especially the quieter, less trendy ones.

It's a tricky time and maybe things will ease up for your girls.

[pointydog]

ahhh, first year. First year is difficult for many children - don't panic!

[GodzillasNewYearsBumcheek]

11. I hope you're right, but it didn't work out that way for me!

[pointydog]

Also, be careful about projecting your own experiences and emotions onto your children.

Four friends between them is ok. Are they quite good friends who they socialise with out of school ocasionally?

[GodzillasNewYearsBumcheek]

Yes, and they have a friend who they see in the holidays who goes to another school too.

Fortunately DH had a better time at school so i usually let him talk about school more than i do!

[cory]

I was this person at school. And very far from ruining my life, I think it has made me much better able to cope with the rest of my life because I had had that experience of evaluating what my own values were and sticking to them. Because it's not the last time in life it's going to happen, but next time it will be over something different.

The trick is to learn to stand by the person you want to be, and only do the things you feel are right for you, without falling into the opposite trap of despising everybody who does not exactly share your own way of being. I am sorry to say that my daughter is much better at this than I ever was. I wish I could go back now and learn from her.

It is possible to rub along and even be of help and support to people who are very different to yourself. I was never very good at this. Dd is a genius as far as I can see. She seems to win acceptance wherever she goes by adapting in non-essentials without rubbing other people's noses in the essentials or judging others, as I did. I wonder if it is the humbling experience of disability that has made her so much more mature than I was at her age.

But at least I didn't lie down and let myself be coerced into things I felt were wrong for me. Second-best, IMO.

[ManIFeelLikeAWoman]

Don't build your part up. They are old enough now that, if they want to, they can choose to smoke and swear covertly. I did not swear at all until I went to secondary school and then made a conscious decision to start. I now swear a lot, though almost never in front of my mum ...

I'm not saying they will do either - but, if they don't, it's because that's how they want to be. You've set them an example and they choose to follow it. If they're happy that way, let them get on with it!