Am I being an over-anxious mummy? Not sure if nursery is providing right care...

[PavlovtheCat]

I am a first time mummy - My 9.5month old DD is at a nursery for currently one day per week, possibly rising to 2 days. She has been going for about 2.5 months and seems to be settling in to the routine ok.

I have some niggly concerns, and wonder if they are me having too high expectations as a first time mum or if it is not perhaps the right place for her. I only get to see how things are run for about 15 mins x 2 each day as I go in to feed DD, and sit in the baby room whist doing it. Sometimes it seems like the managers come in to give me a 'show', make sure I see it is run well.

However -
The carers seem 'bored', they are not rude to the babies, but do not seem to be happy to be with them. They do not do very much with them, apart form make sure they are safe.
There does not appear to be any specific structure to the day, at least not in the baby room. The activities seem random.
Sometimes the babies are left on their own. I mean by this that although there are usually (but notalways) the correct no. of carers to babies, the carers are often doing other things, like sweeping the floor and filling in paperwork (last two times, both carers have been doing something). So the babies are on their own, not doing much.
Some of the toys seem inappropriate, like feathers. I am reluctant to give my DD stuff like this in case she chokes.
I went in to BF my DD last week, and she had some cardboard in her mouth, which it appears had been there a good few minutes, and was not noticed by a carer, she had chewed it off a book and when I commented, the carer acted like it was normal, not concerned.
They do not appear to follow the routine set by me, as requested, re naps etc, she does not get put down to sleep in cot room often.

on the plus side.
There is a particular carer she seems to really like.
She took a bottle for the first time last week there, and ate her breakfast, which she has not been doing, and they finally seem to be understanding her.
She did not cry at all this week when she was there and seemed happy when my DP collected her.
They change her nappies often
They offer healthy food
They have an outside space
They keep good records.

They do averything 'acording to the law' but they seem to do this at the expense of the children? What do you think? Am I expecting too much?

[WideWebWitch]

Hi, my responses in caps

The carers seem 'bored', they are not rude to the babies, but do not seem to be happy to be with them. They do not do very much with them, apart form make sure they are safe. CHILDCARE IS NOTORIOUSLY POORLY PAID AND PLENTY OF NURSERIES EMPLOY BORED TEENAGERS. I WOULDN'T WORRY TOO MUCH ABOUT THIS BUT YOU COULD LOOK AROUND SOME OTHERS AND SEE IF YOU LIKE THE STAFF BETTER

There does not appear to be any specific structure to the day, at least not in the baby room. The activities seem random. DOESN'T MATTER AT 9MOS IMO

Sometimes the babies are left on their own. I mean by this that although there are usually (but notalways) the correct no. of carers to babies, the carers are often doing other things, like sweeping the floor and filling in paperwork (last two times, both carers have been doing something). So the babies are on their own, not doing much. FINE AT THAT AGE IF THEY HAVE TOYS/STUFF TO PLAY WITH, WOULDN'T EXPECT 100% INTERACTIVE 1:1 AND I CERTAINLY DIDN'T GIVE IT TO MINE

Some of the toys seem inappropriate, like feathers. I am reluctant to give my DD stuff like this in case she chokes. SHE WON'T CHOKE ON A FEATHER, IT'S A LOVELY THING TO PLAY WITH!

I went in to BF my DD last week, and she had some cardboard in her mouth, which it appears had been there a good few minutes, and was not noticed by a carer, she had chewed it off a book and when I commented, the carer acted like it was normal, not concerned. WELL, THESE THINGS HAPPEN BUT THEY SHOULD HAVE NOTICED AT 9.5 MOS SINCE CHOKING IS A POSSIBILITY.


hey do not appear to follow the routine set by me, as requested, re naps etc, she does not get put down to sleep in cot room often. WOULDN'T WORRY ME

I think you should go and look at a couple of others and see what you think. Or go and see a childminder.

[WideWebWitch]

btw, I'm not contradicting myself, I think it highly unlikely a baby would choke on a feather, more likely with a bit of cardboard. But still not the end of the world (cardboard) since if she's starting to crawl everything'll be in her mouth anyway.

[PavlovtheCat]

Thanks wicked - I think you are right, I am probably expecting too much. I would not be excited if I worked with other peoples children for 8 hours a day or more, I do not smile every second of the day myself. I guess I just want others to love my DD like I do and care for her like I do, but of course that is not possible!!! grin].
I just wanted to make sure I am not putting my DD in a situation that should be better than it is...

[PavlovtheCat]

and LOL about crawling, she has been doing this for months, and can pretty much walk already!!!

[PavlovtheCat]

bump

[fearscape]

I don't have much experience of this as my ds is just about to start nursery (has had 2 settling in sessions) but I would be a bit unhappy with that too. I agree that they can't be constantly interacting with every baby all the time but I think they should be playing with them a bit. Both our settling in sessions have been during free play time and the carers have been playing with the babies (don't know if that was for my benefit!). Would also be annoyed if they're not trying to follow your routine, may not be possible to do it to the minute but shouldn't they make some attempt? Have you raised it with them? Maybe you could ask for her to be put down more often or something.

I guess I have all this to come!

[PavlovtheCat]

Fearscape - it sounds awful but I have been afraid of raising many of the points in case I am being over-anxious, expecting too much, which I guess is why this thread started...I have reminded them of her daily routine though, which to be honest is rather flexible, as DD herself is. It is not too rigid re: nap and bottle times, but only mentioned last week so we shall see.

What wprries me, I guess, is if this is how I feel about what I see when I am there, how is it/will it be when I am not, and lets face it most mothers do not go back during the day, and very soon I will not be.

I think I am probably being over-sensitive. I of course do not expect sole attention to LO...(would be nice tho..}

[Mumpbump]

As someone else said, most nursery helpers are teenagers and it's not terribly well-paid. Also, and this is a horrible thing to say, but if they were bright motivated young things, they'd probably be trying to become nannies which are much better paid.

Are they OFSTED approved and have you looked at the report? Bear in mind that nurseries are meant to follow a curriculum even at that age so their days are likely to be more structured than you think.

Babies tend to play by themselves quite a bit - ds does anyway! As long as they are supervised, I don't think that's a problem. At the end of the day, the carers have clearing up to do and it's no different than you doing housework at home to my mind.

Chewing on cardboard is not good. My ds' nursery had a piece of hard coral in their treasure box which ds fell on - they were very embarrassed and apologetic and had obviously learnt their lesson so I didn't make a fuss, but if something similar had happened again, I would have moved ds.

Re: routines, ds follows a completely different routine at nursery and I think it is because there is a lot of stimulation so he is less likely to go to sleep. At home, he has a morning nap and mid-dayish nap; at nursery, he has only one 1.5 hour nap in the middle of the day.

So on the basis of the above, your nursery doesn't sound too bad to me, but if you aren't happy with it, I would have a look around anyway.

[saintmaybe]

On child 3 now, looked at quite a few nurseries.

Yes, this is typical IME, but there ARE better places. Think you're absolutely right to think that the quality of interraction is most important, and it's not easy to find places it's taken seriously. Having despaired of all the very posh organicfrenchlessons type places, a friend recommended the local Surestart nursery, which is FAB. Really great staff, who stay a long time, very clued up, and prob because lots of referred/ special needs children (dd isn't) really high quality of attention to detail. They speak respectfully and intelligently to the children, and I really couldn't ask for more. Worth checking to see if you have Surestart locally.

Keep looking; there is better quality out there!

[foxinsocks]

I had mine in a nursery from around 4 months to a year I think (full time). Looking back, it was much the same as yours and I had the same concerns. I should have taken her out and found a nanny or a childminder but I didn't and I regret that.

I think what you point out is very typical of a nursery (all will have the 3 babies to one carer and if you think about it, that's quite a lot of babies for one adult) and I personally believe now, having been through it, that nurseries work well for older babies/children but not when they are little and can't enunciate their needs. That's my PERSONAL opinion and I'm sure someone will say there are some fabulous ones but I think if you feel it's not the right childcare for your child, don't stick with it - look at the alternatives.

[auntyspan]

Hi

I have my DD in a nursery and she has been since she was 5 months old (she's 14 months now). I scoured the area and looked at every difference nursery before chosing the one she's in.

I think the main thing to do is go with your instinct, and take your lead from your DD. Is she tired and grouchy when she gets home? If so, chances are she's not napping as she should be. Is she more hungry in the evening? If she appears to be happy and content, after a month or so settling in, she's probably going to be fine.

However, my biggest point is this. I've looked at a dozen nurseries and the thing that makes them is the staff. They're all fairly similar - same healthy food, good toys, clean etc, but if you look round a room and at least one of the carers hasn't got kids of their own, I would think twice. Nursery nurses, if they're in the process of becoming accredited, are cheap as chips where are the more mature, more experienced staff are more costly but I'm afraid they're better and more caring. In a nutshell - go with your instinct - that's what it's there for! Don't be afraid of questioning everything - I had stern words with my DDs carer as I walked in once and DD had a massive piece of apple in her mouth - much too large - but then DD promptly showed me up by taking it out and sucking on it...... if they're good staff they won't mind you hassling them.
HTH xx

[PavlovtheCat]

Thanks everyone for your thoughts. I am going to have a look at some other nurseries, to compare. I did this originally, but feel that now I have had some experience with this nursery I have more of an idea of what I would like/what concerns me. It may well be, as you said, that this is what I need to expect.
I have explored childminders, but the ones I have found in my area just do not fill me with confidence, either they are also managing 2-3 year olds as well, or they look after no other children. The things I liked about nursery was the integration with other children. I thought, if I cannot look after her myself on these days, then it makes sense forDD to interact with other children at least.

I have been looking at Montessori nurseries, anyone had any experience with these? DP says that as a baby, it does not appear that DD will be looked after any differently than any other nursery, that we should consider this when she is 18months or so.

[Helenback]

I used to manage a day nursery and it is notoriously difficult to find good babyroom staff. They must follow the Ofsted ratios (1:3) at all times. I am worried that you say they don't always do this. In a good nursery staff will have time out of the room to complete planning and assessment. But if one member of staff is doing this the other should be with the children definitely. There should be a timetabled routine for the day on display. This should include activity times. Feathers are fine if they are supervised. Montessori is an approach, be aware that not all 'Montessori' nurseries have montessori trained staff, quite often it is used as a gimmick for parents. I don't believe the approach is suitable to small babies as it can be quite restrictive. What babies need is opportunites to explore their environment, inside and out, with a loving carer.

[ScottishThistle]

Sounds pretty normal for a nursery tbh which is why I dislike nursery care with a passion for babies!

If I were you I'd rethink the Childminder route.

[PavlovtheCat]

helen - thanks for your comments - I say that there is not always 3:1 ratio, sometimes a member of staff goes out to do something, or has when I have been there, gone up to deal with baby in sleep room, and left the other two carers with 7 babies, or 1 with 4-5 babies, not for huge amounts of time that I have seen. I have also seen it addressed by the manager once, but as I said before, some of this I think was for my benefit as I was there, and worry how often it happens when I am not.
Being busy doing other things, it has happened several times too that one carer will be sweeping up, the opther willo be filling in baby diaries, and the babies are left, maybe spoken to but thats it.

Scottish Thistle - I agree that childminding would be agood option, but I have contacted all those in my area from social services famileies team registered list, and either they are full, or not appropriate for various reasons...I will keep looking...!

[ScoobyC]

Hi, my 10mo is in nursery and it sounds much better than yr experience.

I am horrified by the idea that you should have to accept that the staff are bored underpaid teenagers who aren't interested in the babies!!! In ds' babyroom all the staff seem really nice and really interested in the babies. I would not have him in a nursery where the staff were not into children, I think you should look elsewhere.

As to what they do, they seem to spend quite a lot of time just playing but they do activities like painting, playdough (highly supervised obviously) and can go outside and play with sand etc.

Good luck with finding somewhere you're comfortable with.

[empie]

I've just put my dd into a new nursery from next week. I looked round yesterday and the staff were smiling and said HELLO to me and not only that but quite a few of them have been there for 10 years +!

You should go with your gut feeling. It might not be a bad nursery, but is it the right nursery for you and your lo - and if your gut feeling is NO then you should be looking elsewhere IMO, after all this is a service you are actually paying for

[ScoobyC]

Oh yeah, also meant to add that my son absolutely loves nursery and has a great time there. He is very active and loves other children so it is great for him as he gets to crawl around and get involved in everything and has lots of other kids to poke!
It also has a really nice feel about the place and all the staff are completely focussed on the children. I really think as Empie says, trust your instinct, but I do think there are really great nurseries out there.

[PavlovtheCat]

thanks scoobyC and Empie
The nursery is adequate. I dont mind LO playing not doing activities, but feel she should have a bit more 'interaction' or 'supervision' I guess.
I am going to look at a Sure Start one in the local area, as recommended by another post on this thread, see if that works out.

However, DD is there today, she screamed the place down when DP left her. I went to BF her, and she was playing happily with some toys, did not seem at all upset. AND to make a complete liar out of me, there were 4 carers in the room and the manager (for my benefit, no doubt) and only 4 babies!
I will keep her there for now as she is not being harmed one day a week in the short term, however, I will look for somewhere that makes me feel a little less nervous about longer periods, and the longer term.
Maybe comparatively I will find this is better (it is better than the others I checked by I looked in my area, I will try in the area I work), who knows. I will also try more childminders too.

[Sunyshineymummy]

One question I asked when I was looking round was about staff turnover and I checked that there was a good mix of ages amongst the staff. At DS's nursery the staff have all been there for ages and all seem lovely and engaged. There's a real mix of ages but DS's two favourites are both 18 year olds who seem to love him as much as he loves them. They're always telling me anecdotes about things he likes or things he's been up to, which is really lovely and reassuring. I've now started employing them outside nursery hours to babysit from time to time and I have to say I'd trust them 100%.

[PavlovtheCat]

Suny - thats what I want from the nursery, that 'interaction'. I get some things from the day, but I have to 'ask' for it. I dont mind about them being young, if they are interested in the children. I tell you what made me feel more concerned. There is one carer there, in another room. Came into the baby room, thought she was a parent as she had no uniform on, walked over to one of the babies and scooped him up and kissed him all over, put him back down on the floor with a toy, picked up another girl (at which point I realised she was a member of staff) walked over the the towell cupboard, picked one out, talking all the time to this little girl, happy smiling, like it was her child, then put her down, said goodbye, said bye to all the others and then left the room.
It was soo natural, her behaviour around the children was comfortable, fun, friendly, happy, the other carers in the room looked bored stupid after this...i realised then it was boredom, not formality.

[KezzaG]

Pavolv I am having this issue right now. My ds went to nursery and his 2 carers in the babyroom were lovely. I woyld often turn up early and find one them playing or cuddling him. They have now both left and I really dont want to put my next baby (4 mnoths pg) into the nursery. They seem fed up and stressed in the room and like they are going through the motions.

I want people who are going to smile and laugh and talk in silly baby talk like they really care, not someone who fills in paperwork.

I am lucky enoigh to be friendly with one of the girls who works there in a different room, and she has pretty much confirmed that there is too much time spend on planning and paperwork, and little time to interact with the babies. Therefore babies cry for attention, the carers get fed up with babies crying and so it goes on.

If you dont feel happy it will always niggle at you, so I would definately have a look round if I was you.

[kickassangel]

i'd agree with shiny about dd's nursery, they just seem to love being around the children. what you describe won't harm your child, partcularly if it's only one or two days. if she was there ft i'd be more bothered. is hould imagine th problems will be more obvious higher up - 2yos don't cope well with boredom & you might want to look at options for her then if the other staff are like that.

[Sunyshineymummy]

I think the turnover thing is important. If turnover is low, usually means staff are happy and you really want happy staff looking after your children. I'm also really chatty and friendly with them, which has given them the opportunity to start telling me about things DS is up to. I make a point of not being in too much of a rush when I drop off and pick up so that they are encouraged to chat. Does your DD's nursery do Parent's Evenings? I've found these really fantastic.

[poppetmum]

My DD has been at the same nursery since she was 10 months (now 3.5) and I'm just settling in my second DD (8 months). My first DD loves it and I have to say that once they become more toddlers, start to speak etc it works much better. As I settled in the second one, I started to get quite nervous, for all the reasons you mention (I'd forgotten all this with DD1). The staff really are important - we were lucky with DD1 that she found a young carer she loved (who was only in her first job) and who has been with her throughout. The staff in our baby room are very good - there are a couple of bored ones - but the others really like what they do and I know they've been there for a few years. So ask about turnover and don't be afraid to raise concerns with the manager (I've done that a couple of times and they have been actioned straight away). E.g. if you want your baby in the cot, they must do that - you are paying! (I also know at our nursery that all babies under 1 have to be in cots - not sure if that's the law). Also ask others in the area which nurseries they use/know of.