Feeling isolated and unhappy in France (living here with French partner)

[Helen8955]

Hi.

I am from the UK and currently living in France with my French partner. I am studying at a nearby university. Since the second lockdown, I have been working from home with the only interactions being on zoom. I didn't know anyone in this town as we moved here just before second lockdown came down, and it's difficult to travel to uni at the moment in the covid context (I live quite far from my uni town). I have been feeling increasingly isolated and unhappy. I have found it really hard not being able to travel to the UK for so long or have family come to visit. My partner works long hours so I feel alone and lonely during the week. I now know two people here and am trying to meet up with them for a walk when possible, but as they are new friends it's not so easy to talk to them completely openly.

Before living here, we had lived in another part of France for 2 years. I have always found it difficult but things did get better there when I had a job and some of my own friends. It was also closer to the UK so easier to see UK friends and family (pre-covid). Perhaps in a few years we could move back there - but partner wants to stay here due to job prospects and nicer countryside etc. We have talked about me wanting to move back to the UK. At one point he said he doesn't want to - but then after lengthy discussions he said that he would consider moving back there if one of us got a good job there, but he would prefer to stay in France. We lived in the UK for a few years before moving to France so he has tried it.

This year in particular has taken a huge toll on my mental health and on our relationship. He has tried to be supportive but we have also had a lot of arguments (often about silly things but probably bigger things under the surface) and have often been unkind to each other or just not communicating at all sometimes. I have been having doubts about the relationship. I don't know how much of it is due to how difficult this year has been and general resentment about this situation.. but I feel that even if this situation/year has been difficult, we should have been able to support each other through it.

At the moment I find it difficult to imagine a happy future for us/a future where I feel happy living in France. It's not just missing friends and family in the UK, it's also feeling quite isolated in the culture and just not meeting people so easily, and when I do just not clicking with them so easily. My French is fairly good but I get sick of French people teasing my accent etc, which further reduces my confidence and makes me feel more isolated. There is more of an international community in my university city, so that could be a way to meet people but it's quite far away from where we live (and too expensive for us to live there).

I have been trying to tell myself to wait it out - get to the end of my studies and also wait for things to get better with covid - before making any kind of decision. But it is all I can really think about - flicking between different possible scenarios in my mind. It makes me feel really sad to think about breaking up and I don't know if we would both regret it - he is such a kind person and we have had a strong relationship in previous times and have been through a lot together, but we do also have a lot of differences which have started to get to us this year (e.g. I like to talk and process things a lot - he is more quiet, I'm messy and a bit chaotic - he is more tidy and ordered).

I am 31. We have been together for 7 years. We both want to have children and have spoken about this a lot. But I feel that I would need to be in a much more stable place emotionally and in the relationship to consider bringing children into it. But I do feel conscious of the time/age pressures.

The question of which country to live in seems like an unanswerable one. It feels like one of us will have to make a sacrifice, which will make either me (if France) or him (if UK) unhappy in the long run. I'm just wondering if it would be better to end the relationship sooner rather than later to give ourselves the best chances of being happy and meeting new people in our respective countries?

We are thinking that I will try to go back to the UK for a while (like a month or more) at some point soon just to stay with family and also have some time apart. I'm hoping that this would also allow me to see things more clearly. But it's difficult to know if I'd be able to get back here if I need to due to covid rules, so difficult to know if even this is a good idea.

Thanks for reading all this! I'd be interested to hear any of your thoughts on this.

[Gfplux]

Have joined any of the Facebook groups for Brits living in France. There are quite a few. Some are “local”
The private group below covers all the EU27
www.facebook.com/groups/704637150153964/?ref=share

[MumInBrussels]

@kittehmoma

If you want my advice: You need to leave France and cut contact with all French indivudals immediately.

France and French people have extremely toxic energy and should be avoided at all costs. It's not good for your chakras and your kids.

XOXO

This is some sort of bizarre joke that I'm just not getting, isn't it?

OP, being lonely sucks. I'm sorry you're feeling that way. I felt very isolated and lonely when we first moved to the south of France for my husband's work, complicated in my case by not having a job when this had previously been a big part of my identity. I did eventually meet a few people, though, and it got easier - I very much miss living there now. I can't advise you on your relationship, but I think this year has been more difficult and stressful than normal years, by far. I was reading something yesterday that stuck with me - covid and its restrictions has been a trauma for many of us, even if we haven't directly been affected by illness or bereavement, and it's apparently recommended to wait 6-12 months after a trauma before you make life-changing decisions. A break back with your family, when you can, is a good idea, but don't underestimate the impact covid will have had in how you're feeling and how you've settled - if/when that's resolved, things will likely be a lot easier.

In the meantime, are there any online groups you can join? There are a ton of expat groups on Facebook, they might help. Anything social offered by your uni? Anything online for the international community in your uni town?

Good luck - I hope things work out for you soon! Come back and let us know how you're doing? I'll be thinking of you.

[Gojuchang]

How about contacting the AVF (Acceuil des Villes Francaises) or your local Mairie to see if there is anything going on in your area (COVID permitting of course)

[JesusWeptLady]

OP I would try to hang on until you can have a quick visit to the UK later in the year when things are settled down with the pandemic.

[Helen8955]

Thank you all for your replies :)

@Gfplux and @Gojuchang thanks, I've joined that Facebook group now and will look into contacting AVF and the local Mairie. I sometimes find it hard

@MumInBrussels Thanks so much for your message. It's good to know that things did get easier for you in the South of France after some time. That's really interesting and true that covid has been traumatic for so many people for so many reasons, even if not directly affected by the virus. Yes sounds a good idea to wait before making any big life decisions. I've been trying to say this to myself but it's just that the covid situation seems to be lasting so long now that it's hard to see the end of it. I'm in one 'English speakers' group on Facebook in my town but haven't met anyone from it in real life yet. My uni isn't really offering anything social due to covid and anything that is available is online. Are you living in Brussels now (from your name!)? How do you find it there? I wonder whether things would be easier living in a big city with a strong international community.

@JesusWeptLady Thanks, yes I think I need to hang on before making any big decisions. It's just hard to know when/if things are actually going to improve pandemic-wise, especially with international travel.

[Gfplux]

@helen8955
Our PRIVATE Facebook group covers the EU27 countries. There are over 2000 people engaging with a new country. I hope you will take comfort from the fact you are not alone.
From after Brexit Brits.

[Helen8955]

@Gfplux thank you, yes it's good to know that I'm not alone. It seems like a nice group for feeling that solidarity and for sharing experiences of living in another country.

I didn't mean to type above 'I sometimes find it hard' - I guess I was going to say I sometimes find it hard/lack confidence at the moment to be pro-active in getting in contact with people through expat groups who I could actually meet up with, or approaching French organisations like the French mairie. In non-covid times, I would start a language group or a club where it's possible to meet people through doing an activity.

[zafferana]

The question of which country to live in seems like an unanswerable one. It feels like one of us will have to make a sacrifice, which will make either me (if France) or him (if UK) unhappy in the long run. I'm just wondering if it would be better to end the relationship sooner rather than later to give ourselves the best chances of being happy and meeting new people in our respective countries?

It's not unanswerable OP, but it may mean the end of your relationship. I'm married to someone from another country and we agreed very early on which country we would live in, mainly because I'd been in another international relationship before I met him and that had fallen apart, at least in part because of that very issue.

If you've been together 7 years and you STILL haven't resolved it and both of you really want to live in your own countries then I think you have to seriously consider whether this is the end of the road and that given your age now (31 isn't old btw, but if you want to split up and move home, meet someone new, have a family, etc, you don't have years to waste at this point), it's time to shit or get off the pot, IYKWIM!

By all means, don't make a hasty mid-pandemic decision, but I would put a time limit on how much longer you dither for. I know quite a few people who married someone from another country and I can tell you that it only gets harder when you have DC and as your DPs get older. You need to give this some very serious thought before you end up committed to a life in France without intending to.

[Lostinacloud]

OP, firstly sorry you are feeling so conflicted and confused. Nothing about these covid times is easy and moving to a new community where normal chances to meet local people are not available makes things doubly hard.

Is this the first time you have lived away from your family and older friends? I move fairly regularly with my DH’s job and the first time we moved a significant distance from my family, where it wasn’t very easy to pop back and forth, I found it extremely difficult and it took me over 12 months to feel a little more comfortable.

Secondly, we are currently living in France too!! We moved last summer and I know exactly what you mean about the very limited chances to explore the new area and meet people. Plus the weather has not been very motivational until this weekend!
I would echo a previous recommendation to contact your local AVF though. I joined my local one last summer and I’m so glad that I did. I now have a weekly chat with a mixture of french and English speaking locals (although it’s online at the moment) and I absolutely love it and have felt so welcomed and supported by the lovely french ladies involved. They are keen to improve their English but are also incredibly patient with my french and they’ve also helped me with things like reporting my bike stolen and taking our car to a local garage.

That said. I have also found it very hard not being able to go back to the UK if I wanted to. Now that it is so difficult to get back, it has added an extra headache to the mental load of adjusting to a new country. Although none of our family or friends have been able to visit either (as we expected prior to moving) before such stringent covid restrictions, it helped to know that it was at least a possibility to alleviate occasional moment of loneliness.

Due to this, I’d tentatively suggest joining local groups to try and settle a bit where you are and wait for borders restrictions to lift before making any life long decisions. However, that very first time I moved away from family, I did still get back as often as I could so maybe a few weeks back with your family while you’re feeling a bit low wouldn’t do any harm?

[MrsDarcyIwish]

I stayed, had children and tried to make the most of it. I'm bilingual and have a reasonably well-paid and secure job now but have moved around a lot in France for dh's job.
The homesickness ramped up big time after the last move. It hit me that I was always the one having to make sacrifices
and the resentment set in and has eroded the love that kept me here when younger.
I feel lonely in France. I have nice colleagues and neighbours but no real friends here and the only true friends are long distance, still livkng in places my dh's work took us to.
I will probably end up leaving him when I can find the courage and would like to move home to the UK but this is hugely compromised by the fact that my children are French.
Living abroad when young is an amazing experience.
Settling down here with a local and having children is for life.
You've no way of knowing how you will feel in 10 or 20 years.
If your relationship is not rock solid and truly equal with excellent communication, I would think long and hard about just how much you are going to be giving up.
Sorry if that's negative.
I do have English and American friends here who are apparently happily married but all struggle with homesickness to an extent.
Covid obviously makes things worse, but don't let it mask deeper issues.

[Helen8955]

Hi, thank you for these responses - I have only just seen them as didn't receive email updates for some reason.

@zafferana Yes I think you're right about setting a deadline and not having years to waste - it's just it's hard to know at what point to set a deadline, and then how to actually make a decision at that point if I still feel so conflicted. Maybe the point is that IF I still feel so conflicted by a certain point then that's the time to end things.. even if that feels scary. We met in another country (separate from both our home countries) and then moved to UK for a bit and then France. The fact that we met in another country maybe also complicates things as from then on we have been moving to each other's home countries for the other one - I sometimes think if we had met in e.g. the UK and he already had a slightly established life there on his own (or me in France) - then that would have felt different/easier somehow. But for the first few years I guess we weren't really thinking about where we'd settle down as that didn't really cross our mind at that point. I also (optimistically - maybe naively) thought that living in France would be great and much easier than I am finding it. I even liked the idea of possibly settling in France/staying in the EU, being in an international community etc.. but I have found the reality to be much more difficult.

That’s good that you and your husband decided which country to live in at the start – and then neither of you had doubts about the country later on?

PS that really struck me how you said it only gets harder with DCs and when DPs get older -- I had imagined this to be the case.

@Lostinacloud I lived in a different city in the UK quite a long way from my family for several years and was happy there and had nice friends. Then lived in another country for a year (where I met my boyfriend), but it was only ever going to be for a year so I wasn't having doubts about being far from family at that point. Also when I lived in another city in the North of France, it was much easier to see my family so even though I found it hard at first, it got better when I had a few friends, a job and it was quite easy to travel to UK and also have UK friends and family come visit. I even felt like people visited more (compared to if I lived in UK) as it was an easy and nice way to visit France for them.

Sounds like you also experienced how difficult this is when you moved somewhere where it was harder to see friends and family.

Wow that's great that the AVF has been a nice experience for you. I just looked on their website and the nearest one is 2-3 hours away by train :( I think that's also been the problem here is living in a small town with not much of an international community. There is a Facebook group I'm in of English speaking locals. I think they usually run social events when it's not covid/curfew etc.

Yes I definitely know what you mean - the fact that it's impossible/so difficult to see UK friends and family adds a mental load to being in another country.

[Helen8955]

@MrsDarcyIwish - Thanks for your message, it's not negative and it's really useful for me to hear your perspective. Sorry you're also feeling lonely in France. I can imagine that having children has a big impact on your decision around this.

I already know what you mean about the resentment setting in. Yes you're so right, that it feels fun living abroad when young but settling is for life.

Yes true there's no way of knowing how I'll feel in 10/20 years. But I get caught up in imagining future scenarios (some negative, some positive) which I get fixated on, but really I know that I can't know what will happen and how I'll feel in the future.

This line really struck me: If your relationship is not rock solid and truly equal with excellent communication, I would think long and hard about just how much you are going to be giving up. -- I can imagine you're right and I definitely need this kind of honesty, so thank you.

Were you bilingual from childhood or you learned in France/with your partner? How did you do this? I feel I'm far from being bilingual.

[turfsausage]

It sounds like ultimately you should end it - you want to end up in different countries. Even if one of you acquiesced, you might change your minds later, and it's very hard when children are involved believe me. I live the other side of the world from home and I'm stuck now - completely at the mercy of my DH.
Maybe finish your course first if that makes sense and split after, but I would say move on.

[zafferana]

It's just it's hard to know at what point to set a deadline, and then how to actually make a decision at that point if I still feel so conflicted. Maybe the point is that IF I still feel so conflicted by a certain point then that's the time to end things.. even if that feels scary.

Agreed - this feeling of dislocation and disquiet you're feeling is precisely because you're not comfortable with your life right now. I'd say give it until Christmas, because hopefully this year will pan out to be a bit more normal than last and by the summer you should be able to travel and visit your family and spend some time back here and think.

The pandemic has put normal life on hold, so let yourself live a normal life again for a few months, travel back and forth a bit, and see how you feel. If you long to visit the UK and don't want to go back to France at the end of your trip that will be very telling, equally if you miss your DP when you're here and feel fine about going back, even look forward to it, that will also give you an answer.

I also (optimistically - maybe naively) thought that living in France would be great and much easier than I am finding it. I even liked the idea of possibly settling in France/staying in the EU, being in an international community etc.. but I have found the reality to be much more difficult.

I totally understand this. At one point, I really wanted to settle in another European country too and I moved there only to find the reality very different to my rose-tinted, romantic ideas. Even if you're just moving across the English Channel, as opposed to the far side of the world, it doesn't mean it's going to be easy or that you will ever feel truly at home. And if you are living in France with a French DP and you have DC, they will be French, first and foremost. The early years they'll probably pick up English first, but once they go to school and are immersed in French culture your kids will be French and you'll almost certainly be 'stuck' in France from that point onwards. How does that thought make you feel - that having a baby with your French DP might anchor you to France for good? Just sit with that idea for a bit and see how it makes you feel.

[zafferana]

One other thing @Helen8955, if the toll on your mental health is particularly bad you ARE allowed to travel to the UK for support from your family. I know the borders are officially closed, but people ARE travelling and as a British citizen you have the right to return home if you want/need to, even if it's just for a visit. In other words, please don't feel like you're trapped and cannot get out if you feel you must.

[Helen8955]

@turfsausage thanks for your message, yes I can imagine it gets much harder when children are involved. I'm going to give it a few months (until after the end of my course/Christmas) to make a final decision, as covid and loneliness has made things much harder recently.

@zafferana thanks for your reflections, yes I think Christmas sounds like a good idea for a 'deadline', I definitely need to wait until things become a bit more normal, as I have realised that a lot of my unhappiness stems from the loneliness of doing uni work from home, which wouldn't be the reality long-term.

Yes I think you're right, I need to sit with and reflect on the feelings that come up when I consider having a baby here and then staying here long-term. My DP has now said he would move back to the UK if one of us got a good job there, but I shouldn't rely on this, I need to also only stay if I can be happy (enough) living in France long-term.

[KeflavikAirport]

Sorry I'm late to this Helen. You don't really say where you are but there will be a local Anglo community pretty much everywhere, if you can find it. I know you don't have kids yet but the Playdate Network France group on FB has members all over. Maybe try Meetup / OnVaSortir when things open up again?

[crummyusername]

I’d just say DO NOT have children when you’re feeling like this. I’m in my home country (UK) with a friendly local community, and I still felt lonely when I had kids. If you are lonely now it will ramp up when there is a child on the scene with no support network, and it’ll be too late to make a move back to the UK. Be very careful please.

[romdowa]

I 100% understand that feeling of loneliness and disconnect. I moved from ireland to the uk two years ago and I hate the area where we live, its dirty, noisy and people have been so unfriendly here. I ended up going home last year between lockdowns as I just was so so homesick. I missed the sea and the space and walking down the town and seeing people I knew. I did come back to the uk and in a few weeks we are moving to cornwall where my dp is from. He grew to dislike it here as well , I honestly dont know if I could have remained here long term. That feeling of not belonging can be a very difficult one to live with and that inability to break through the barriers and get to know people is frustrating.

[QwertyGirly]

I'm from Canada (the French speaking part) and have been in the UK for over 20 years. Covid is really twisting life at the moment and I wouldn't make important decisions now. It will pass.

My experience:

• I have made the conscious effort to not meet up with other Canadians in London, where I live, although it sounds like the easy route. I didn't come to the UK to live as an 'ex-pat'. Instead, I have taken an interest in local events, arts clubs (painting lessons), evening classes, book clubs, photography clubs, charity/fundraising stuff since day one. Met very nice people that way.

• I haven't seen my family for three years, it's really shit, but it's the same for everyone who don't live close to their family. I miss them a lot. It's awful, but you are not alone. There are thousands and thousands of people in your position.

• I still get picked on because of my accent, sometimes by friends for a bit of banter, sometimes by strangers, although my English is very good. I've been called a foreign cunt during a road rage, told to go 'back to my own country', etc. People who think it only happens in other countries are completely deluded.

• It took me about 2-3 years to make my own friends (proper friends, not work colleagues). And can honestly say that I have met my closest friends during pregnancy and early childhood of my kids. Having kids has enabled me to meet women from other walks of life, other professions, etc.

• I still feel that I don't 'belong' in the UK. I don't think it will ever happen. If someone asks me what my nationality is, I'm Canadian. It will always be largest part of my identity. I can't see myself ever answering 'I'm English'. But that's fine, it's part of life, it's true for thousands and thousands of immigrants.

[Helen8955]

Hello,

Thank you for your replies, sorry I didn't check this for a while. Things are a lot better for me in general now (due to coming out of lockdown, being able to see people again, a couple of trips back to the UK etc) and also much better with my partner.

[Helen8955]

@KeflavikAirport thanks for the suggestion, I have managed to make some friends in my local town through an 'English speakers' facebook group, this has definitely helped :)

@crummyusername yes I definitely think you're right, I certainly won't consider having kids whilst feeling like this. I am feeling a lot better now and things are much better in our couple, but we are not going to consider having kids until things are more stable. I hope you are feeling less lonely now too.

[Helen8955]

@KeflavikAirport thanks for the suggestion, I have managed to make some friends in my local town through an 'English speakers' facebook group, this has definitely helped :)

@crummyusername yes I definitely think you're right, I certainly won't consider having kids whilst feeling like this. I am feeling a lot better now and things are much better in our couple, but we are not going to consider having kids until things are more stable. I hope you are feeling less lonely now too.

[Helen8955]

@romdowa yes sounds like we have had some similar feelings in these situations. Lockdown definitely added to the feelings of loneliness and disconnect too. Since things have opened up more, it's definitely improved things for me here, I hope that has been the case for you. Are you in Cornwall now? I hope things are going better for you there.