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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you have any legal concerns we suggest you consult a solicitor.

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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you have any legal concerns we suggest you consult a solicitor.

Legal matters

Full pre-sentencing report

33 replies

LittleDragon · 07/08/2011 12:32

DP has pleaded guilty to 3 counts of section 4a of the public order act. The magistrates have ordered for probation to carry out assessments for a full pre-sentencing report. What should DP expect? And will the fact he went to a special school be taken into account even though he doesn't know what if any diagnosis was given?

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TheOriginalFAB · 07/08/2011 12:37

at the going to special school having any bareing and why have you posted this numerous times?

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LittleDragon · 07/08/2011 12:42

I was having problems with my phone hence it posting many times. He went to a special school for some kind of learning difficulty/disability and as we're not sure what to expect we're not sure if it would have bearing

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slartybartfast · 07/08/2011 12:46

can he get a letter from his GP?

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colditz · 07/08/2011 12:46

The fact that he attendeda specialschool may well have some bearing as he was obviously there for a reason. The level of SN amongst the prison population is higher than average, so make sure the lawyer knows that your partner has some sort of unspecified SN.

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LittleDragon · 07/08/2011 13:06

The solicitor knows and made sure the magistrates knew . He doesn't feel he would cope if he gets sent down and i know I'll struggle to cope. We can't get to see gp before probation and maybe not before we're at court on Thursday.

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GaramMasalaGirl · 07/08/2011 13:26

OP, I'm going to be very brief.... the purpose of the PSR is for the sentencing judge to get a fuller and detailed picture of the offender's life and then take those circumstances into account when he comes to sentencing.

the Probation Services will also ask your DP about the circumstances of the offence and whether he is remorseful. They will then ask general details about your DP's background. They will then prepare a report stating whether the offender has remorse for his actions and the likelihood of re-offending and the risk to the general public. They will take into account any previous convictions and recommend a suitable sentence to the Magistrate.

The Magistrates will almost always follow the recommendations in the PSR so I would strongly advise your DP to go into the meeting with an open, friendly and warm attitude as getting on the wrong side of the Probation Officer will not do him any favours.

Disclaimer: above is very brief and general advice only and it might be worth speaking to a solicitor to get thorough advice.

Good Luck

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GaramMasalaGirl · 07/08/2011 13:28

Forgot to add......do mention any health problems, family issues, money problems.....as much detail as possible will be more easier for your DP to be viewed as human rather than just another offender in loooong line of offenders.

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LittleDragon · 07/08/2011 13:35

Thanks. He's just very worried about saying the wrong thing and ending up inside. He knows that could send me into a total mental breakdown. He is very remorseful of what he's done but doesn't always know the best way to express himself.

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GaramMasalaGirl · 07/08/2011 13:50

OP he would only receive a custodial sentence if he was acting as part of a group and had planned to harass/cause alarm or distress, was brandishing a weapon and/or it was a sustained action over a long period of time.

Even if the above were true and your DP could show that he was very remorseful and would never behave like that again then the recommendation would be a Community Order with anger management classes.

And again it depends on if he has previous convictions for similar offences.

If he can get letters of reference from family and employer to show that he is normally a nice/decent human being then that will assist him in his meeting. Also he should take full responsibility for what he did rather than blame others as that would show that he has thought things through and is not likely to repeat the behaviour. Probation Officers are trained to sniff out blaggers though so he has to be genuine or he'll end up winding them up.

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LittleDragon · 07/08/2011 14:07

Most of our friends and family have turned against us. His employer has laid him off. What's worrying him is that the magistrates are pushing for a custodial sentence. All we've got round here really is each other and we are starting to get people going for us over it as we are in a very small town. He does have a sexual assault on his record from nearly 20 years ago and malicious texts from about 6 years ago. There are also some unrelated offences.

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Catslikehats · 07/08/2011 14:44

Right I posted twice but it appears my posts were deleted....

S.4a encompasses a broad spectrum of behaviors so it is impossible to give specific advice without knowing the facts. I note that he has been convicted of 3 counts and wonder if it is harassment type behaviour given the previous for malicious texts? If his present convictions bear any relation to his previous then he is going to be treated far more seriously.

His SN will be taken into consideration but it would be helpful if it was documented - he should certainly inform probation.

Sorry short and typos - bf baby (again)

PS mags wont be "pushing" for anything but they will likely be led by PSR

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LittleDragon · 07/08/2011 15:14

It is harrassment. He didn't mean any harm and is very sorry that he caused the women alarm. The malicious texts were 6 years ago and between him and his ex-partner. We have let solicitor and probation know about the SN and will be reiterating this tomorrow.

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TheMagnificentBathykolpian · 07/08/2011 15:15

So he has committed a sexual assault in the past, sent someone malicious texts, had several other offences of whatever nature and has now committed three acts of harrassment - against?

I think that rather than trying to work out a way to get him off the hook and avoid prison, you should be working out a way to get him some help to stop him doing these things. With the best will in the world, the time to worry that you won't cope if you get sent down, is before you decide to engage in the harrassment of someone! He sounds like he needs help!

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TheMagnificentBathykolpian · 07/08/2011 15:17

Oh, not one someone. multiple someones. He has been harrassing women? sexually harrassing women? or some other form of harrassment?

He needs help, not focusing on how to stay out of prison. He needs to stop harrassing women!

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LittleDragon · 07/08/2011 15:18

They turned round and said it was between community service and custody and that they are looking at the top end, at custody. They did say they weren't tying the bench but that they were looking at custody.

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Shinyshoes1 · 07/08/2011 15:24

Well if the judge has already hinted at a custodial sentence then unfortunately that's what he's facing. The PSR can only aim to reduce whatever sentence he is likely to face

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LittleDragon · 07/08/2011 15:28

One of them he was on his way home from work and ended up behind a woman who says he was following her whereas it was the only way he could get home. The others were him making adolescent comments which he thought were compliments. It's more a lack of social etiquette knowledge than criminal intent.

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TheMagnificentBathykolpian · 07/08/2011 15:34

Oh please.

Sexual assault, harrassing text messages, assorted offences and now the harrassment of three women?

Look, you turn it into little whoopsie poor little chap didn't mean any harm, doesn't understand the social rules about not abusing women in the street if that helps you to be with this man. But he needs sorting out. He doesn't need ways to help him beg to not go to prison.

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TheMagnificentBathykolpian · 07/08/2011 15:37

Oh and my children both have autism. And they would never abuse women in the street (or anywhere else) and if they did, I would expect them to be punished and supported to understand what they had done was totally unacceptable and to NEVER do it again. Not allow them to go on to repeat the behaviours! So please don't try the sn get out of jail free card. It's offensive.

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GaramMasalaGirl · 07/08/2011 15:39

Agree with Shiny I'm afraid. If a custodial sentence has already been mentioned by the Judge then you will have to prepare yourself for the inevitable.

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TheMagnificentBathykolpian · 07/08/2011 15:39

Oh, and you don't get put in prison for making "adolescent comments" otherwise there'd be not a single bloody builder or scaffolder left on a building site in the whole bloody country!

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Georgimama · 07/08/2011 15:41

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LittleDragon · 07/08/2011 15:49

The sexual assault was while he was a teenager and was drunk. He thought a woman was coming onto him and so went to put his arm round her and touch her breast. She says she wasn't coming onto him and got the police involved. The malicious texts was a joke between him and his ex which got out of hand. These harrassment cases are not like him. He usually doesn't even look at other women and i have already stated he is SN. They only happened on his way to or from work and was merely the type of comments a teenager would make. He made no attempt to touch the women or cause any harm. He didn't mean to upset them even and is really sorry that he did and has been since he found out.

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Georgimama · 07/08/2011 15:55

You can make as many excuses for him as you like. The fact is he isn't a teenager now and has considerable previous of making inappropriate remarks/overtures towards women, for which he has previous convictions. I doubt the women involved in these various incidents see them in the same light you do. He is looking at custodial or suspended sentence at the least bearing in mind his track record. It's a shame his previous convictions didn't make him sorry enough to reflect on and alter his behaviour.

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TheMagnificentBathykolpian · 07/08/2011 15:56

Don't you dare try to make special needs a justification for assaulting or harrassing women.

He just puts an arm round someone and touches their breast and he is CHARGED with a sexual assault? and convicted.

He engages in a mutual texting joke with an ex and he is CHARGED with sending malicious texts? and convicted

He then walks behind a woman to get home from work and he is CHARGED with harrassment. and is facing prison

He makes 'adolescent comments' in all innocence to women and he is CHARGED with harrassment. and is facing prison.

Come off it, kid! You're being silly and naive and making excuses for what is clearly a pattern of disturbing behaviour.

You are also clearly swallowing a load of bollocks about the extent of what he's done and how he's behaved.